Change oil interval article---again

[JerryHughes]

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/how-do-y...your-car-.html

I only posted this because it does say that "older" models, like my 97 SL, do need to change oil at the 3K period. Newer cars don't but I'll stick to the 3K for my older Saturn.

[alordofchaos]

I'm going to do what the picture shows, next time I need a funnel - cut off an old soda or juice bottle! We have a bottle deposit law, so soda bottle will cost 10 cents, still more convenient and cheaper than buying a plastic funnel

[Sidneyaks]

Originally Posted by alordofchaos

I'm going to do what the picture shows, next time I need a funnel - cut off an old soda or juice bottle! We have a bottle deposit law, so soda bottle will cost 10 cents, still more convenient and cheaper than buying a plastic funnel

The mobil qt bottles fit RIGHT in the oil fill cap on saturns. They move around less than pop bottles, thus less chance of spilling.

[NWSaturn247]

How much oil is consumed to produce a new car? I will stick to 3k-4k OCI

[alordofchaos]

Originally Posted by Sidneyaks

The mobil qt bottles fit RIGHT in the oil fill cap on saturns. They move around less than pop bottles, thus less chance of spilling.

good to know, thanks, but I buy 5qt bottles, usually

[fdryer]

Does your '97 have the 'oil change reminder' indicator?

From the '98 service manual;
Change Oil Soon Telltale

The change oil soon telltale is turned ON by the cluster when it receives a command from the PCM. The change oil soon telltale is commanded ON based on a calculated value of time and mileage. This indicates to the operator of the vehicle that the oil should be changed as soon as possible.

If your '97 has one then all you're doing is trumpeting the same old school ideas that 3k mile oil changes are still needed when its proven otherwise.

[brags]

5,000kms or 3;000 miles for this guy

[bountyhunter]

Originally Posted by JerryHughes

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/how-do-y...your-car-.html

I only posted this because it does say that "older" models, like my 97 SL, do need to change oil at the 3K period. Newer cars don't but I'll stick to the 3K for my older Saturn.

Depends on type of service. Even new cars need the short change interval if the service is mostly short trip/city usage.

[TXSaturn02]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Does your '97 have the 'oil change reminder' indicator?

From the '98 service manual;
Change Oil Soon Telltale

The change oil soon telltale is turned ON by the cluster when it receives a command from the PCM. The change oil soon telltale is commanded ON based on a calculated value of time and mileage. This indicates to the operator of the vehicle that the oil should be changed as soon as possible.

If your '97 has one then all you're doing is trumpeting the same old school ideas that 3k mile oil changes are still needed when its proven otherwise.

Who started this oil war? I started using this indicator - for me it has been coming on around 4,500 miles. I haven't been waiting for it to come on simply because I've had free oil changes at the dealership and wanted to take advantage of it so I was changing it around 4000 miles. But, I'm waiting for 'dummy' light to come on again for the next one (or unless I get a good deal on an oil change after 4K miles). They put a lot of research into this - I trust it.

A new quote by yours truly.

"Only the dead have seen the end of oil wars."

[JerryHughes]

[QUOTE=fdryer;1861825]Does your '97 have the 'oil change reminder' indicator?QUOTE]

Nope, no indicator. (That would make it too easy)

[mattwithcats]

Put a vibration hour meter in the car.

At 60 hours dino, and 200 synthetic, change the oil....

[madpogue]

Originally Posted by mattwithcats

Put a vibration hour meter in the car.

PCMs should have cumulative engine run hour meters programmed into them. Kinda sucks that they don't.

[adventureoflink]

I never the OCI in Saturns existed in 1998.. I thought that was a 3rd gen thing only

[Chris Lemieux]

Originally Posted by adventureoflink

I never the OCI in Saturns existed in 1998.. I thought that was a 3rd gen thing only

My 98 doesn't have one. I just went over 5k with Mobil 1

Over 200k now too.

[fdryer]

Ok, I must admit I'm wrong about the OCI indicator for '98 and '99's. After researching the drawings and text of the service manuals, text explanations includes the OCI but not in the electrical drawings until model year 2000, 3rd generation S-series. OCI's are included in the group of LED's for MY-2000 and up. My bad.

This still doesn't alter my personal opinion about old school attitudes insisting on oil changes every 3k miles. Improved oil formulas and better machining tolerances (as shown by nearly perfect honing patterns left on rebuilt Saturns) tend to demonstrate how well engines can last without paying close attention to oci's whether its 3k, 5k or 8k miles. Rebuilding shows little wear on cylinder walls but doesn't explain encrusted oil/compression rings that fail. And not from lack of oil changes as a blank statement. Oil/compression rings or valve seals that fail are the main reasons for short engine life, not 3k mile oci's. The few that have rebuilt Saturns with modified oil return holes don't seem to have oil issues. And some are either clinging to 3k oci's or not. That remains to be seen in the long run if any of them post updates.

As reported in news accounts, Europeans tend to be more forward thinking about oci's simply because of practical economics (higher gas and oil prices) forcing car owners to maximize their spending against wear and tear with no appreciable premature decline in engine wear. This concept is lost in America.................

Oh, and this isn't another oil war debate. This is about oci's.

[dbetz]

Originally Posted by fdryer

As reported in news accounts, Europeans tend to be more forward thinking about oci's simply because of practical economics (higher gas and oil prices) forcing car owners to maximize their spending against wear and tear with no appreciable premature decline in engine wear. This concept is lost in America.................

Another thing that sometimes people don't realize is just how expensive autos are in Europe. Doing a quick internet search (to make sure I am not WAY off base), a Ford Focus 1.6 L 5Door, BEFORE adding *options* such as AC, Auto, PS, and ABS ranges from $25,000 to $33,000 depending on which country it is purchased in (in the Euro zone). In Denmark (before options), they pull in $48,500. With prices like that, coupled with wages that iirc tend to be less than in the US, I can see why people would be more picky about making sure their cars were kept in tip top shape.

Here in the US, cars are much more of a "throw-away" item, and I can see why people don't care as much about keeping them in shape. "Buy new every two" and who cares about whether or not you took care of it.

[TXSaturn02]

Originally Posted by dbetz

Here in the US, cars are much more of a "throw-away" item, and I can see why people don't care as much about keeping them in shape. "Buy new every two" and who cares about whether or not you took care of it.

Europeans pay more for their cars and yet they keep them longer and do less 'oil maintenance'. What does that tell you? The oil companies have just done a better job of 'conditioning' Americans to think that they need those oil changes. Just like they had them mostly convinced that it is the American dream to own a house and that you 'can't go wrong by buying a house.'

Do your homework - choose wisely. I've read about people who neglect oil changes and still their cars last a long time. Others take care of their cars meticulously and their cars either break down or, worse, get totaled in an accident. My biggest concern isn't proper maintenance - it is with the idiot texting and driving (or putting on their make up).

[OldNuc]

Originally Posted by fdryer

Ok, I must admit I'm wrong about the OCI indicator for '98 and '99's. After researching the drawings and text of the service manuals, text explanations includes the OCI but not in the electrical drawings until model year 2000, 3rd generation S-series. OCI's are included in the group of LED's for MY-2000 and up. My bad.

This still doesn't alter my personal opinion about old school attitudes insisting on oil changes every 3k miles. Improved oil formulas and better machining tolerances (as shown by nearly perfect honing patterns left on rebuilt Saturns) tend to demonstrate how well engines can last without paying close attention to oci's whether its 3k, 5k or 8k miles. Rebuilding shows little wear on cylinder walls but doesn't explain encrusted oil/compression rings that fail. And not from lack of oil changes as a blank statement. Oil/compression rings or valve seals that fail are the main reasons for short engine life, not 3k mile oci's. The few that have rebuilt Saturns with modified oil return holes don't seem to have oil issues. And some are either clinging to 3k oci's or not. That remains to be seen in the long run if any of them post updates.

As reported in news accounts, Europeans tend to be more forward thinking about oci's simply because of practical economics (higher gas and oil prices) forcing car owners to maximize their spending against wear and tear with no appreciable premature decline in engine wear. This concept is lost in America.................

Oh, and this isn't another oil war debate. This is about oci's.

I run ~15,000 miles with oil samples. Aftermarket pistons with the correct drain back ports. Engine had 134,000 miles when rebuilt and cylinder wear was ~0.004 so it was bored 0.5mm over. Oil consumption is effectively zero for the change interval. Current mileage is 177,000 miles. The oil carbonizing on the pistons is the result of hypereutectic pistons. The drain holes will allow the carbonized oil particles to drain past the rings as is required. This carbonizing can be reduced or totally eliminated by using a 100% PAO base oil.

[brags]

Originally Posted by JerryHughes

http://autos.yahoo.com/news/how-do-y...your-car-.html

I only posted this because it does say that "older" models, like my 97 SL, do need to change oil at the 3K period. Newer cars don't but I'll stick to the 3K for my older Saturn.

who ever wrote this article on oil changes does not now what there talking
about the part thats real B.S. to me is it goes on to say thanks to better
lubricants and tighter tolerances the 3.000 mile oil change does not apply.
to many cars on the road and it goes on to mention that a BMW 3 series
under ideal conditions can go 15,000 miles before needing an oil change

Ouch.! that one sent shivers up my spine! who can drive under ideal conditions? the truth is there are no ideal conditions. we all drive under sever conditions. ex: stop and go ,idiling in traffic ,high speed driving more than 70 miles an hour all fall in sever conditions i use mineral oil and change it at 3,000 miles am i waisting money and oil no. if Your running synthetic you can

go 5,000 miles i wouldent go anymore obviously who wrote this article is probably not A well enough educated and B is not a engineer because if You show this to any good tecntion they will Laugh Out Loud and over LOL! it just
does not make any sense from a Longevity point of View.