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Old 09-17-2011, 06:47 PM   #1
Scooby
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2003 L-Series 3.0L Sedan
Default L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

I have a 2003 L300 w/about 140k miles. My wife was driving home yesterday and said the engine died on her. I went today to take a look and this is what I found.

Car turns over, but does not start. I read the codes and these are what came up:
P0102-MAF or VAF A ckt low input
P0405-EGR flow sensor A ckt low input

I ordered the parts, just to make sure I have them in case those are actually the issue, but it would seem to me as if there is something more going on.

Also, when I removed the EGR valve, it seemed like there was an excess of water in the port. I know water can sometimes pool there due to the condensation, but this seemed excessive, although I have never actually checked it before, so this could be normal for all I know.

Any suggestions on what to troubleshoot first?

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Old 09-17-2011, 07:39 PM   #2
mattachuz
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2000 L-Series 2.2L Sedan
Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

for kicks id check the battery cables for corrosion but thats just me, and work to the fuse boxes, relays for ignition and such. clear the codes and turn the key.


i go simpliest first then work up.

...
mi: 199,xxx

trips:

X = dest
O = ON way

home- Clovis, ca

Pismo Beach: xx
Morro Bay: oo
San Francisco: x
Los Angeles: ooo
Anahiem (disneyland): xxx
Tulare: o,(x-atleast 15)
Visalia: x

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Old 09-17-2011, 08:18 PM   #3
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

I checked the battery cables and fuses right away, as I initially suspected a blown fuel pump or ignition fuse, but to no avail. I haven't tried clearing the codes, but will do so in the morning.

The more I think about this issue, the less it makes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the engine still start even with those two sensors erroring? And if it WAS a fuel pump or ignition issue, wouldn't I have received a fuel system or ignition system error code? How about the timing belt, is there an error code for that?

Also, some additional info:
-My wife stated that she had just filled up the car yesterday morning and hadn't driven more than five miles when the car died yesterday evening. Bad gas maybe? can I just throw some Beano in the tank?
-The car has been showing a P0128 error (Engine coolant temperature below thermostat-regulated temperature) for a pretty long time now, even after I replaced the ECT sensor and had the radiator flushed (twice), but I have just ignored that one since the car never overheated and the error didn't seem to have any effect on the performance of the vehicle. I didn't post it earlier, because it didn't seem relevant, but since nothing else makes sense, I figured it may actually matter.

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Old 09-17-2011, 10:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

As you become familiar with Saturfans you'll come to see recurring symptoms fitting certain patterns that have similar solutions. One of them is a failure of the crank position sensor.

Most cps failures seem to be from an intermittent nature that makes it difficult to troubleshoot except for accurate descriptions of symptoms. The other failure mode is hard, leaving the engine unable to run at all. The starter will work to turn the engine over but the engine never fires up.

To be sure its a cps failure; the security indicator is OFF while starting and fuel does spray from the fuel test valve on the fuel rail. Turn ON the ignition and listen for the faint hum/hiss of the fuel pump running for 2-3 seconds. Locate the fuel rail's test valve (resembling a tire valve), remove the cap, loosely cover the schrader valve with a rag while depressing the valve stem expecting fuel to spray out. Spray means the entire fuel system is operating as designed. No spray or a dribble means a fuel system problem; fuse, relay, wiring to pump, pump, pump ground connection. If the fuel system checks out then its most likely a failed cps.

Testing for a failed cps just requires either using a multimeter to measure resistance or replacing it. Resistance should be between 700-1200 ohms. A open or no reading means a failed cps. Its next to the oil filter.

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Old 09-18-2011, 08:31 AM   #5
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Thanks for the tips. I will go see if I can't narrow down the problem and post what I find.

It's times like this when I miss the old, non-computerized vehicles.

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Old 09-18-2011, 09:16 AM   #6
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Clearing the codes and trying to start it didn't work (I was really hoping it would have been that easy), and when I checked the fuel pressure with the ignition on, there was nothing.

I verified the fuse and relay were good (swapped the relay with the known good wiper motor relay) and listened for the fuel pump while turning the key on and off several times, but never heard it and still no pressure.

So I am off to get all of the parts I may or may not need so I don't have to go back to the parts store. It's a good thing I have a couple of empty gas cans laying around, since the wife just filled up the tank.

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Old 09-18-2011, 01:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

A fuel pressure gauge or a good ear placed in the right spot on the car can help a fuel system problem. The pressure gauge should display instant pressure as soon as the ignition is turned ON while listening to the fuel pump with an ear pressed to the rear of the car somewhere near the fuel tank will also help. A long handled screwdriver with the tip pressed to the tank and the handle pressed to the ear creates a mechanic's version of a stethoscope.

The ignition switch can be cycled on as often as needed except you need to wait at least 15-30 seconds between cycles as a timer prevents cycling the pump quickly.

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Old 09-18-2011, 08:29 PM   #8
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Swapped out the fuel pump and fuel filter and the car started. YEA!

However, the engine light came on again during the test drive and the P0102 and P0405 codes showed up again. Any ideas on these?

I went ahead and bought the CPS, but by the time I got done with the fuel pump, I was tired, hungry, and wanted to watch football, so I will test that as soon as I get a chance, just in case.

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Old 09-18-2011, 10:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

You da' man!

If the engine runs the cps is operating and doesn't need to be replaced.

P0102 may mean loose/corroded throttle harness connections. Three drive cycles are needed to have this error erased automatically if the fault is corrected.

P0405 is an egr valve error. Either a cleaning is needed to allow free movement of the pintle valve from hard carbon exhaust deposits or replacement.

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Old 09-20-2011, 06:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Well, I replaced the EGR valve, and that error code went away (rather it didn't come back after I erased it). However, when I replaced the MAF, the car actually ran worse, but the code did not reappear.

I watched my code reader and the data the MAF was putting out, and with the "new" MAF installed, the reader was getting lots of data, but the car was running horribly. And with the old MAF installed the reader was only showing 0.25 for data, but the car ran fine.

Based on this information, would it be okay to assume (we all know what that does) that while the "new" MAF sensor is putting out data, it may be the wrong data, whereas since the old MAF sensor is not putting out any data, the car's computer (PCM) is running off of a default flow?

That hole in the wall where I am banging my head is getting pretty big.

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Old 09-20-2011, 07:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Pm me an e-mail address for a pdf on P0102. Its too large to post.

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Old 09-24-2011, 06:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Update: Finally had some time to do some extensive troubleshooting today, and thanks to FDRYER emailing me the pdf, I was able to determine that the MAF was putting out wrong data. At idle, the MAF was showing 18-20 g/s instead of the 3-7 g/s it should have been showing. So I went and did a defective part exchange. While I was at the parts store, I went ahead and put in a new air filter while I was swapping out the MAF sensor and low and behold, I was seeing the proper g/s readings.

The car was still idling a bit rough though and on the drive back (includes freeway driving), the car seemed to lose power for an instant while at speed, but then pick right back up. When I got home, I started going through the engine with a fine tooth comb and found a cracked vacuum hose going into a black box that had one hard plastic, blue hose running in from the manifold and one hard plastic, blue hose running out to the Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC).

I replaced the cracked hose and started the car up, but with similar results of the engine surging at idle. I went for a test drive with the wife driving and me monitoring the engine data on my code reader. On the trip to get cold, tasty, adult beverages, the car seemed to run fine at speed, but still surged at idle, but there were no codes.

However, on the way back, the engine light came on and when I read the codes, it came up with a P0172 and P0175 (both banks running rich).

I did a quick search on the forums and saw what has been posted before:
Fuel pressure high
Leaking fuel injector(s)
Vacuum leak around MAP sensor
Oxygen sensor contamination
Restricted exhaust or air intake
EGR valve stuck open
EVAP purge solenoid stuck open
MAF sensor
MAP sensor
ECT out of range
Base timing

Based on what I have already done, where do you think I should start?

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Old 09-24-2011, 06:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Jump in anywhere where its the easiest and cheapest to test for out of tolerance parts. Include a possibility of a clogged exhaust system - the catalytic converter strangling the exhaust system and causing both cylinder banks to run rich. With high mileage, consider parts not replaced and due although not causing this issue; timing belt and water pump.

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Old 10-05-2011, 06:38 AM   #14
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

Almost forgot to finalize this problem on here. As it turned out, the THIRD MAF sensor worked. I went to a different part store and purchased another MAF sensor, as that was still what all indicators were pointing to (especially since the car ran better without it connected). I then let the car cool a few hours and replaced the sensor, but waited until morning to start the car. BAM! everything ran like it should.

And since I was working on the car, I decided to get rid of the clunking noise that appeared while going over bumps and replaced the front struts.

Now all is well...for a time.

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Old 10-05-2011, 07:59 AM   #15
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Default Re: L300 won't start and shows P0102 and P0405

So the 1st replacement maf sensor caused all this grief? Who would have known.......

Thanks for the follow up to close this thread!

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