SaturnFans.com
what's new (beta) - classifieds - forums - photos


Go Back   SaturnFans.com Forums > Models > Saturn S-Series > S-Series Tech
Register FAQ Members List Groups Calendar Chat Room Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-16-2009, 05:29 PM   #1
NeedMoreVrmm
Junior Member
NeedMoreVrmm has a spectacular aura aboutNeedMoreVrmm has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Novi, Michigan
Posts: 11
 

1999 SL2
Attention Help!! EGR Valve cleaning gone bad!

1999 SL2 DOHC ~140,000 miles

This is my first post here....

First - a BIG thank you to the many people on this forum who have shared their help and words of wisdom (and to Richpin for his videos). I was able to diagnose and fix the P0341 DTC by replacing the spark plugs (with the recommended NGK ones), spark plug wires, and removing and cleaning the ignition coils/module. I also replaced the ECTS with the good brass one.

Also, I'm not a mechanic - just trying to do some things that seem fairly easy to do to make my wife's car (yes, the SL2 is hers) run/work better (and save money).

Today I was working on fixing P1404 by cleaning the EGR valve. I got the pintle unstuck and it is now moves freely. I thought I remember reading on here people recommending to spray some carb cleaner in the holes on the "engine block" (I don't know if that's the right term, but hopefully, you know what I mean). So, I did that along with using a toothbrush to clean (repeating a few times). I went to start it with the valve off as several people had mentioned - the car ran for about a second and died. I tried restarting it - but no go - just random explosions. I then thought I flooded it with too much carb cleaner, so I pushed the gas all the way to the floor, but then the starter just ran with no other noises. I let it sit with the valve off for over an hour.

I went back out, put everything back together. While tightening the support bracket to the throttle body assembly (at least that's where it looked like it was attached to), I wasn't paying attention and used my torque wrench (from tightening the bolts on the EGR valve) and managed to break off the bolt.

I tried starting the car again. When pressing the gas pedal all the way to the floor, only the starter is heard. When I start it normally (not touching the gas pedal), it just has big random explosions that shake the engine, but not consistent enough to run for even a few seconds.

So now I have 2 problems:

1) I can't get the car started - I am at a complete loss of what to do!

2) Do I need to find a throttle body assembly from a junk yard so I have a bolt to attach the EGR support bracket to? Any other suggestions?

Thank you in advance for your help!

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to NeedMoreVrmm's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help NeedMoreVrmm reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
NeedMoreVrmm is offline   Reply With Quote
SaturnFans.com Sponsored Links
Old 10-16-2009, 06:58 PM   #2
1995sl1sohc
Advanced Member
1995sl1sohc is on a distinguished road
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 534

1995 SL1
1993 SL1
Default Re: Help!! EGR Valve cleaning gone bad!

Check and make sure you have spark by pulling the plug wires off the ignition coil and attempting to start it. You should see spark between the 2 towers, if not then something is wrong in the ignition system.
Then check for fuel pressure, follow the fuel line off the intake and fine the little shrader valve. Pop the cap off and depress the valve core if all is well you should be greeted with a healthy spray of fuel.
Check these things and report back.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to 1995sl1sohc's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help 1995sl1sohc reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
1995sl1sohc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 09:24 PM   #3
rc1488
Master Member
rc1488 has a spectacular aura aboutrc1488 has a spectacular aura about
 
rc1488's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Carmel, NY
Posts: 5,658
 

1997 SL2
1995 SC2
Default Re: Help!! EGR Valve cleaning gone bad!

Remove the spart plugs. Clean and dry them off. Crank the car over. Inset the plugs and try again. It should eventually start

You need to remove the broken bolt, then use the other bolt to get a new one. Homedepot should have them.

...
Current: 95 SC2 Man 97 SL2 Auto 98 SL1 Auto 01 SL1 Man 02 SL1 Man
Past: 94 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 95 SL2 Man 96 SL2 Auto 97 SL2 Man 98 SL2 Auto 99 SL2 Auto
2010 SCCA Mohud Street Championship-2nd Place

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to rc1488's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help rc1488 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
rc1488 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2009, 09:58 PM   #4
RichBrown
Member
RichBrown is on a distinguished road
 
RichBrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Dutch Caribbean
Posts: 257
 

1991 SC
1995 SC2
Default Re: Help!! EGR Valve cleaning gone bad!

If you take a picture of the bolt next to a ruler I'll mail you the bolt, LoL I have a crap load left over

...
Richard Brown
saturn@mhvnet.com
Current: 1995 Saturn SC2 1.9L DOHC
Dude where's my oil?

Previously Owned:
1991 SC 80k
1992 SC 92k
2001 SC2 33k
1995 SC2 131K
1993 SC2 110k
1996 SC2 101k

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to RichBrown's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help RichBrown reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
RichBrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 01:32 PM   #5
NeedMoreVrmm
Junior Member
NeedMoreVrmm has a spectacular aura aboutNeedMoreVrmm has a spectacular aura about
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Novi, Michigan
Posts: 11
 

1999 SL2
Wrench Re: Help!! EGR Valve cleaning gone bad!

An Update.... I took rc1488's advice. When I removed the plugs, they were wet (which is no surprise), but there was also a lot of black carbon(?) crud all over the spark plugs - even around the electrode. After cleaning/drying per the instructions and putting everything back together, I tried to start it.

Still about the same as it was before. I tried various combinations of normal starting and pushing the gas pedal to the floor to shut off the fuel injectors. A few times, it sort of kind of ran for second or 2, but would then die. After one of the times I tried with the gas pedal to the floor, and I didn't hear any cylinders firing at all, I figured that most of the gas & carb cleaner was finally burned. I tried to start it normally and it started - though required some assistance on the gas pedal for several seconds until it stopped running crappy.

I let it warm up and it seemed to run fine. I left for a test drive and didn't even make it out of the little parking lot in my apartment complex, before it died. It took about 20 seconds or so before it started enough to keep it running by pushing on the gas. After that, it's seemed to run fine - it's started fine and I haven't heard any misfires!

Thanks for your help!!!!

BTW, I may have destroyed my front oxygen sensor, as it triggered the SES with the P0133 code. I'm guessing that it probably didn't like the unburned gas and/or carb cleaner that probably came out of the exhaust (especially based on the smoke and fumes that came out of the tail pipe while trying to start it and for a little while after it was running. I cleared the code, so we'll see if it returns.

And the darnedest thing - after cleaning the EGR valve, the P1404 code was set again. I tried to clean the EGR valve as best I could (why wasn't it designed so you could easily remove the bottom part and easily clean it? - i.e. just be able to soak it in carb cleaner, lacquer thinner etc.). I'll have to see if that comes back as well.

Note to novice "mechanics" - If you're reading this post through searching for info on cleaning the EGR valve, I recommend only clean the actual valve - don't touch the bottom part as I don't think I would have had all these issues if I had just cleaned the valve.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to NeedMoreVrmm's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help NeedMoreVrmm reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
NeedMoreVrmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 01:42 PM   #6
TXSaturn02
Master Member
TXSaturn02 has a spectacular aura aboutTXSaturn02 has a spectacular aura aboutTXSaturn02 has a spectacular aura about
 
TXSaturn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,053
 

2002 SL2
Default Re: Help!! EGR Valve cleaning gone bad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedMoreVrmm View Post

BTW, I may have destroyed my front oxygen sensor, as it triggered the SES with the P0133 code. I'm guessing that it probably didn't like the unburned gas and/or carb cleaner that probably came out of the exhaust (especially based on the smoke and fumes that came out of the tail pipe while trying to start it and for a little while after it was running. I cleared the code, so we'll see if it returns.
Good move. You've probably put the computer through shock. Give it some time to see if it doesn't sort things out on it's own. I had the code for the oxygen sensor go off for a few days. I decided it could wait as the car was running great with nothing abnormal to be seen. Eventually planning to replace the sensor. However, at the next gas tank fill up the code dissappeared - never to be seen again (well ... for the last 5 months and 9K miles or so).

Good luck

...
2002 SL2 Manual - new in November, 2001
Sticker: $13,995 As of 09/30/17: 223,751 Miles - SOLD

2013 Mazda 3 HB - new in October 2012
Sticker: $20,850 As of 09/30/17: 38,381 Miles

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to TXSaturn02's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help TXSaturn02 reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
TXSaturn02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 01:50 PM   #7
beerhecht
Member
beerhecht is on a distinguished road
 
beerhecht's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 139
 

2008 Astra XR
1993 SC2
Default Re: Help!! EGR Valve cleaning gone bad!

The O2 sensor is probably fine. Any residue will get burned off when you take the car on the highway.

Did you ever try to start the car with the EGR off the car? The engine will jump up to something like 4000 RPM's and will clear out all of the junk in the system. Be prepared to make a lot of smoke. If the engine just runs normally when you take the EGR off, then the port leading to the intake manifold is probably clogged. I had to clean the port with a bottle brush and a coat hangar.

Good luck.

REWARD EXCELLENCE!

Add to beerhecht's Reputation
Rate the quality of this post and help beerhecht reputation points. Click the reputation button near the bottom left corner of this message box. Thank you!
beerhecht is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
cleaning egr valve bdobraj S-Series General 11 04-07-2013 09:41 PM
EGR valve cleaning abinder S-Series Tech 9 10-22-2008 04:57 PM
EGR Valve Cleaning - HELP! LaraKimbo S-Series Tech 5 05-12-2007 11:13 AM
EGR Valve cleaning diablo2070 S-Series Tech 5 04-02-2007 08:11 PM
Cleaning EGR valve wolfehunter S-Series General 9 07-18-2006 10:03 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 PM.

Advanced Forum Search | Advanced Photo Search


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SaturnFans.com. The Saturn Enthusiasts Site.