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Old 04-25-2009, 03:19 AM   #1
CashDude
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Default 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

Sometimes it will run for a second or two. Scanned it and got this.

[PCM] U1000 - Class 2 Communication Malfunction (Pending) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P1599 - Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected (Pending) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P1632 - Theft Deterrent Fuel Disable Signal Received (Pending) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P0741 - TCC System Stuck Off (Old) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P0742 - TCC System Stuck On (SES) (Old) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[Restraints] B1000 - ECU Malfunction (History) (Immature)
[Restraints] U1000 - Class 2 Communication Malfunction (SES) (History) (Current) (Immature)
[Restraints] U1064 - Loss of Communications with DIM (History) (Immature)

4 of those codes match up perfectly to a TSB that says the rear body harness could be damaged under the "left rear carpet retainer." Can anyone tell me where the heck the "left rear carpet retainer" is and what any wire back there has to do with the car running? Is it in the back seat floorboard or the trunk?

BTW I thought it was a passlock problem, but I got it to run once and disconnected the 3 wires on the tumbler and it would not start again! So it must be something else. Thanks for any help guys!!

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Old 04-25-2009, 11:50 AM   #2
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CashDude View Post
.....Sometimes it will run for a second or two...
4 of those codes match up perfectly to a TSB that says the rear body harness could be damaged under the "left rear carpet retainer." Can anyone tell me where the heck the "left rear carpet retainer" is and what any wire back there has to do with the car running? Is it in the back seat floorboard or the trunk?...BTW I thought it was a passlock problem, but I got it to run once and disconnected the 3 wires on the tumbler and it would not start again! So it must be something else....
You probably created half those codes when you pulled those wires from the ignition switch. Its just a guess here but those wires may be part of the Passlock anti-theft deterrent system and if you did pull them you basically interfered with electronic communications between the body control module (BCM) and the rest of the electronics including the ECM and ignition switch wiring as part of the theft deterrent systems communications. Similar to pulling the lan connector off the computer - loss of communications to the rest of the world. Our "L" series cars were one of the first Saturns to have factory anti-theft systems copied from GM's high end cars - Corvettes, Caddilacs, etc., and the early systems used the ignition switch for part of the 'resistor' circuit without having the resistor in the key. If you see a flashing security light on while starting its most likely your Passlock system locking you out from having the engine fire up. You can crank all day till the battery dies or the starter burns out but Passlock (for the L-series only) disables the fuel pump - no engine firing up. Perform a Passlock re-learn routine. Search the How-to library using the Forum Jump below. A combination of cycling the ignition key ON for 10-minutes 3-times to have Passlock learn the security code before allowing a start. The flashing security light will turn off if done correctly and now the engine will start up.

If the engine wouldn't start before yanking the wiring, the problem may still be there and you added this issue to it. Be sure the security light stays off during the starting sequence and note any other indicators lit while starting or with the ignition ON along with any other descriptions if you're still having starting problems.

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Old 04-26-2009, 12:21 AM   #3
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I scanned it before I did anything. I know how passlock works; I had problems with it on my Silverado and had to bypass it with a resistor. And I like how you tried to blame the problem on me without answering a single one of my questions. Does anyone want to contribute something useful to my thread before I go look at the car again later today?

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Old 04-26-2009, 01:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

1-Never mentioning any sequence before or after you posted error codes has you assuming you think anyone knows what you're describing. I never assume anything and based my opinion on your post. How does anyone know whether you caused the error codes or not. After all, you also mentioned yanking wires that would cause me to simply put one and one together. i know Passlock's function too. Using the FSM's.

2-If you know so much about Passlock based on previous experience then you'd know that U1000, P1632, and U1064 are related to Passlock communications. Possibly when wires were disconnected. What wires were disconnected?

3-I will gladly stand aside for anyone else more capable than myself to allow better advice.

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Old 04-26-2009, 04:01 PM   #5
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Look, thanks for the advice, but I just want to know where the "left rear carpet retainer" that is mentioned in the TSB is. Is it in the back seat or the trunk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
1-Never mentioning any sequence before or after you posted error codes has you assuming you think anyone knows what you're describing. I never assume anything and based my opinion on your post. How does anyone know whether you caused the error codes or not. After all, you also mentioned yanking wires that would cause me to simply put one and one together. i know Passlock's function too. Using the FSM's.

2-If you know so much about Passlock based on previous experience then you'd know that U1000, P1632, and U1064 are related to Passlock communications. Possibly when wires were disconnected. What wires were disconnected?

3-I will gladly stand aside for anyone else more capable than myself to allow better advice.

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Old 04-26-2009, 04:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

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Look, thanks for the advice, but I just want to know where the "left rear carpet retainer" that is mentioned in the TSB is. Is it in the back seat or the trunk?
Did you not get my e-mail reply from when you contacted me? It is the best that I can do at present.

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Old 04-26-2009, 05:08 PM   #7
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Did you not get my e-mail reply from when you contacted me? It is the best that I can do at present.
Yes carman. Thanks for the email. I did not find any damaged wires in the backseat or the trunk. Maybe he has a bcm problem. He said that one time the lights in the cluster all came on and the car started. I am trying the 30 minute relearn right now, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

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Old 04-26-2009, 09:18 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

Hey dryer, the 30 minute relearn did not work, so I'm willing to try whatever else you think. The harness was not damaged like in the TSB.

I tried the reset; I started the car, let the fuel shut off in 2 seconds, and left the key in "run" for about 11 minutes. The security light would never stop blinking (the other day, I waited 20 minutes and it was still blinking). I set a stopwatch and did it every 11.5 minutes or so, leaving the key in "off" for about 5 seconds each time before going to start, and then run again. It didn't work on the third try like it is supposed to.

I pulled the key out and about a minute later tried again and it started right up! Now the security light was steady flashing, but the car was running normally. After about 2 minutes, the security light went off, but the airbag light stayed on and the fuel gauge and temp gauge were both not working, even though the car was warming up and the tank was full.

After a few minutes, I turned the car off and tried to start it again and it died in 2 seconds like always. Is the cluster tied into the passlock on this model? BCM going bad? I was wrong before, so I'm open to any new suggestions guys.

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Old 04-26-2009, 10:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

My l200 needed a bcm. It would start and die out. The dash lights would come on at times and sometimes not. For some time I was able to remove the positive cable from the battery, hold the pos cable to the frame for 30 seconds or so and then reconnect it to the battery. I did that a few times over several months and then it started acting up a lot so I had the dealer replace it.

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Old 04-27-2009, 01:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

Off the top of my head, the relearn doesn't involve turning the ignition key to START for the entire cycle so this may be incorrect requiring another try. Don't try to start the engine after each 10-minute cycle. Just turn the ignition OFF before starting another 10-minute cycle in the ON position only. The body control module (BCM) is forcing you to perform the entire relearn procedure three times to prove that it needs to 'learn' its communications passwords among the three mini-computers; ECM, TCM, and BCM. The BCM is programmed for this half hour routine for owners to use but less time in Saturn's service bay using their Techtool II equipment to do this in one 10-minute cycle or less. I don't think it matters what the security light does during the three cycles until its done. Then on the fourth try when the ignition is in the ON/RUN position, the security light should be off to indicate that Passlock has been successfully relearned and starting/firing up should occur. Normal starting has the security light off all the time unless Passlock failed internal self tests by turning on the security light and the SES or wrench light to alert the owner that Passlock is inoperative and needs servicing from Saturn. The is would be the fail safe mode. Failures are usually by indicators lighting up after something goes wrong but not disable the car from running. If the ABS light turns on and stays on, ABS is disabled while braking still works. If Passlock fails it will turn on the security light to alert the driver that it doesn't work and won't protect the car from theft attempts. The flip side is a BCM failure where Passlock resides and if you read past threads of BCM failures, the car acts 'possessed' - horn blaring, lights flashing inside and out, door locks cycling and disabling the car from starting up. A tow is required since the car fails to start and run. Passlock's fuel disable signal prevents the engine from running.

Pull the negative battery cable for a minute, connect it, and see if some part of the car's system resets, then either try another start or try another relearn routine. Post what you observe since no one can see or hear what you see. Especially during the START sequence. What lights/indicators are on/flashing if any.

You never mentioned after a start-up whether or not the security light is on or flashing while the engine was running. If its still on or flashing while the engine's running along with the SES light, this may still mean a BCM fault that cannot be reset with the relearn routine but a replacement instead. You aren't wrong as much as there's a lot going on with Passlock security and separating starting/running issues from security and BCM issues. You were throwing out few descriptions with nothing tying any of them into anything specific as far as I was looking at this post. And it makes it all the more difficult to separate EFI from security that's overseen by the BCM - what you already suspect. Its an expen$ive replacement to simply call it bad. I'd rather be wrong calling a cps or tps than to call a bad BCM and be wrong.

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Old 04-28-2009, 03:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

Hey dryer, that one time it started after my botched relearn attempt, the security light was flashing for about 2 minutes as the car was running. Then it went off, but the air bag and check engine light stayed on. Does this mean anything? It would not run again after we turned it off.

Should we try the relearn without pushing the key to start?

Another thing, I have HPTuners and was going to DL his file and just disable the security and see what happened, but the computer would not give me access. I've never had that happen before.

I may try the relearn again, but I have pretty much given up and am letting him figure it out. He said that the cluster lights went crazy once when this whole no-start thing began, so maybe it will turn out to be the BCM.

He will probably stumble onto this thread while seaching, so if anyone else has any ideas, please post them.

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Old 04-28-2009, 06:48 AM   #12
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

I don't know anything about HP Tuners but if its an add-on mod for manipulating the ECM and interferes with GM's anti-theft system in any way, this may be the cause of the no-start problem. Without more information on how it integrates with signaling, its just guessing. Passlock is sophisticated in its signaling as part of the communications among the subsystem computers. There's more to Passlock than most know or want to know. Alarms that have interfered with GM's anti-theft system in the early years disabled owner's cars resulting in a tow to the dealer where the dealer promptly notified the owner of the aftermarket system not integrating well and refusing any warranty work until the offending system was removed. If you know Passlock and HP Tuners, and you're aware of 'security', either have this disabled completely or removed from the car as a conservative approach to removing anything remotely possible of interfering with GM's fully integrated anti-theft system. I realize that HP Tuners may have absolutely nothing to do with the anti-theft system but if custom wiring is involved, what's the chance that just one signal is incorrect and messing up the ECM? The ECM is part of vehicle anti-theft. A wiring diagram can better illustrate how sophisticated Passlock is intertwined with all the electronics. I'm sure HP Tuners is well aware of this too. And then consider how electronic fuel injection operates and how Passlock disables it.

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Old 04-28-2009, 08:30 AM   #13
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

you know whats funny is I thought HP tuner was an aftermarket high tech stereo system . I googled it and found out its some kind of engine tuning piece of equipment. And then I figured out DL means down load. Boy I must be just old & slow.

I guess I just have to peddle just a little faster.

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Old 04-28-2009, 08:55 AM   #14
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

Was that you blowing by me the other day?!

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Old 04-29-2009, 08:07 PM   #15
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Was that you blowing by me the other day?!
The hptuners has nothing to do with the problem. It wouldn't even let me access the PCM/vcm whatever Saturn calls it. It was doing this occasionally for weeks until recently it will rarely ever start. So what do you think about the security light flashing for about 2 minutes after it started and then going off? What do u think about the fuel and ect gauges not working? Then when we shut it off it did the no start crap again. Thanks for any suggestions.

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Old 08-15-2011, 01:48 PM   #16
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

My wife's 02 is doing the no start and half the gauges not working as well .Also while in default mode the a\c comprssure won't work as well. These problems seem worse as the temps get hotter. We live in Texas and are having record highs so the car has shut down till winter or a solid fix whatever comes first.

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Old 08-15-2011, 02:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

Posting on a 2yr old thread may not apply to your problem.

There may be either a Passlock or bcm issue. Search the threads about both. Passlock issues would be the security indicator being ON while starting. The bcm drives the instrument panel.

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Old 08-27-2011, 08:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2001 Saturn L100, cranks, but won't start.

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My wife's 02 is doing the no start and half the gauges not working as well .Also while in default mode the a\c comprssure won't work as well. These problems seem worse as the temps get hotter. We live in Texas and are having record highs so the car has shut down till winter or a solid fix whatever comes first.
I had a problem with my passlock system and resolved it by checking fuses. Two looked good but were bad. Replaced and running....

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