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Old 09-05-2017, 04:06 PM   #1
Ecomike
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2001 SL1
Default hard starting 2001 SL1

Having to start it three times for it stay running. Runs fine, might even say great. use to need to wait about 10 seconds in run for dash lights to go out and computer to be ready to crank, to get a 1-2 second start up. Now it never fires the first 6 second crank. Second crank it runs, but barely for 3-4 seconds at low rpms, then dies.

Third try it runs up to 1500 rpm at first and runs fine.

No new codes yet, will check it again today. Still has the old EGR, emissions code BS that has been a pain for years, it is unrelated.

Looking for ideas, on what might cause it be hard to start but then vanish.

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Old 09-05-2017, 05:28 PM   #2
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2001 SL1
Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

Well, what is the history on plugs, wires and maintenance?

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Old 09-09-2017, 02:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

Seems my second post got lost. Wires, plugs are all good, and recently regapped (4-6 months ago). I did the MMO-GM TSB piston ring cleaning trick recently (3-6 months ago) that solved the massive oil consumption rate that had gotten out of hand.

I checked the OBD-II codes and found a new one, and also found that 2 of the emission monitors were still not locked in. It had been ages since I cleared the p0401 code or had a dead battery (about 3-4 months ago left the head lights on).

The new code was lean code, P0171. The O2 sensor is not that old, and does not have that many miles to be bad. I suspect the blower-EGR, clogged ports, garbage system Saturn used on these, P0401 code problem, caused a fake lean code.

I cleared them and made 4 trips, so far P0401 is the only code,one I have battled for 4 years now.

P0171 has not returned, yet, and it has not yet locked in the 2A or E or EE monitors.

I have discovered that if I just let it crank an extra second, it starts properly the first try, but it use to start in 1-2 seconds, not 3 seconds.

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Old 09-09-2017, 03:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

Mileage of this car? Fuel filter replaced? Fuel pressure?

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Old 09-09-2017, 11:04 PM   #5
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

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Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
Fuel filter replaced? Fuel pressure?
and fuel filter brand, if replaced. Only a couple brands are known to provide the right pressure with the integrated regulator

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Old 10-07-2017, 11:49 AM   #6
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2001 SL1
Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

Quote:
Originally Posted by alordofchaos View Post
and fuel filter brand, if replaced. Only a couple brands are known to provide the right pressure with the integrated regulator
Tell me more please!!! What brands? Sound like you are saying the FPR is also an inline filter? I priced on at AZ yesterday, they must be gold plated.

What is (are ?) the proper fuel pressure(s)?

Thanks

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Old 09-10-2017, 12:47 PM   #7
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

About 280,000 miles. New fuel system installed about 8 years ago, about 60,000 miles ago. There have been no signs of it actually running lean. Not running hot and fuel usage increased, not decreased. And lots of power at the gas pedal on demand. Runs perfectly normal at up to 80 mph, tons of power, running cool/normal. So I have no reason to suspect any fuel issues. Primary O2 sensor is only about 35,000 miles and 5 years old.

Got the P0401 and 410 codes on the last drive cycle, the ones I have been fighting for years now.

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Mileage of this car? Fuel filter replaced? Fuel pressure?

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Old 09-13-2017, 06:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

Latest update. Clearing the lean OBD code has improved the MPGs from about 22 to to about 28, and improved the starting ease. And it has not returned. Still getting the P0401 code, but not the lean code last 300 miles. I will update this as times goes by.

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Old 09-25-2017, 09:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

Does anyone know if the fuel pump has two separate power paths in the run and start(crank) positions of the ignition switch?

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Old 09-25-2017, 10:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

I'm pretty sure it is a single path, a relay controlled by the PCM. The ignition switch has no direct control at all.

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Old 09-25-2017, 11:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

^ Correct. At ignition on time, engine off, the PCM program sends a two second command to the pump relay to run the pump then shuts off pumping. When the starter engages and turns over the engine, crank sensor signals are sent to the pcm to allow it to run the EFI system: turn on fuel pump, initiate the ignition system for spark and pulse injectors. The same signal from the pcm is used in two situations to power the pump relay that sends 12v power to the pump.

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Old 09-26-2017, 10:41 AM   #12
Ecomike
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2001 SL1
Default Re: hard starting 2001 SL1

Thanks for the detail, so in the PCM logic, there are two virtual paths (based on PCM input data) , but only one in the hard wiring. This rig has always (since I bought In 2008, I think, refused to start if you crank it before several of the dash monitor lights go dark. After that it use to start in 1 second. Now at random times, it varies from a clean 1-2.5 second crank to start, to three tries. The second or third try always fires up instantly!!!!! 1 in 10 starts fires up in 1-2 seconds on the first try. Runs fine, currently getting 28 mpg on mixed city/highway/drive through long wait for hamburger driving LOL. Does not seem to care if it is cold or hot starts. Cranking is great (very good battery and starter).

Thinking about sensors and contacts. Intake air temp? CPS? Time to pull out my snap on brick maybe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fdryer View Post
^ Correct. At ignition on time, engine off, the PCM program sends a two second command to the pump relay to run the pump then shuts off pumping. When the starter engages and turns over the engine, crank sensor signals are sent to the pcm to allow it to run the EFI system: turn on fuel pump, initiate the ignition system for spark and pulse injectors. The same signal from the pcm is used in two situations to power the pump relay that sends 12v power to the pump.

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