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-   -   2005 L300 V6 No crank No start (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232712)

Dragon88Tango 10-06-2017 12:27 AM

2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
05 l300 good battery, good alternator, good timing belt

Went tp work on Wednesday and when I got ready to leave, the starter dragged ans then stopped. Now I have no solenoid click, all relays check out, all fuses good, all wiring seems to be ok. I'm a diesel mechanic so ive got the tools bit just not the know how on where to start. I got a starter im going to put in tomorrow but I'd really love to see a starting circut schematic and nuetral safety switch as well.

All lights, horn, alarms, radio, and all other body functions work fine. Don't know ecm location or pcm. Someone give me a sign

fdryer 10-06-2017 01:22 AM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
2 Attachment(s)
Jump the two starter terminals, battery to 'S' terminal to separate the starting circuit from the starter. You can always shift to Neutral and try starting to see if its a Neutral safety switch issue or just measure for 12v at the (disconnected for safety) 'S' terminal of the starter when the ignition switch is turned to START.

Dragon88Tango 10-06-2017 12:18 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
[QUOTE=fdryer;2256242]Jump the two starter terminals, battery to 'S' terminal to separate the starting circuit from the starter. You can always shift to Neutral and try starting to see if its a Neutral safety switch issue or just measure for 12v at the (disconnected for safety) 'S' terminal of the starter when the ignition switch is turned to START.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any pics of the starter with the "S" terminal highlighted? The only terminals I say were from the battery cable and I have 12.3 VDC at both.

fdryer 10-06-2017 12:35 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
Every 12v starter are constructed the same. The starter solenoid has three terminals. 1- A large terminal with two wires - large battery cable and a smaller wire feeding power to the alternator. This terminal is hot all the time since it's a direct feed from the battery. 2-Next to it is a small terminal -this is the 'S' terminal. Jumper across these two terminals with a hand held remote starter clipped to these two terminals or screwdriver to see if the starter powers up. Be sure the xmission is in park or neutral otherwise the car can move since you're deliberately bypassing everything. 3-The other large terminal has a braided wire to feed battery power from the switched solenoid contacts to power the start motor.

Dragon88Tango 10-06-2017 03:33 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
Quick question, does the key need to be in the run position for the starter to crank? Im'm applying 12 VDC fom the battery with my power probe and I got nothing. I'm thinking the starter is just locked up. I dont hear any clicking or feel any movement with power applied. Am I wrong going this route?

fdryer 10-06-2017 03:49 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
No ignition doesn't need to be turned on if you choose to use a screwdriver or wired remote start switch. 12v is already sitting on the large terminal of the starter solenoid so the starter is just waiting for the START/12v signal from the ignition switch when its turned to START. Using a screwdriver to short the large terminal to the small terminal simply bypasses everything to power up the starter. Its quick and easy troubleshooting to separate a starting circuit from starter problem. This presumes the battery and connections are in good working order.

Starters rarely lock up if you're familiar with starter operation. A power probe may not supply the current needed to power the starter solenoid. Figure anywhere from 3 amps+ to power starter solenoids. Its the reason I suggest using a screwdriver as you're supplying 12 v battery power directly from the solenoid battery connection to the small terminal - this terminal is the connection to the solenoid coil to power it. All ground connections are thru the case for starter motor or starter solenoid.

Dragon88Tango 10-06-2017 03:57 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
Thanks, had a coworker of mine turn the key while I checked for power at the s terminal. got voltage but nothing happened. Assuming these are self grounding to the block, I'm pretty confident to say that the starter just locked up. I've never had a starter on any vehicle simply quick with out making any sort of clicking or hesitation sounds.

rb6667 10-06-2017 04:06 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
[QUOTE=Dragon88Tango;2256303] I've never had a starter on any vehicle simply quick with out making any sort of clicking or hesitation sounds.[/QUOTE]

^^^ Had one a month ago to do that on my 2004 2.2 I got nothing when I tested it. No clicks no groans, nothing!

New starter and solenoid fixed it.

fdryer 10-06-2017 04:30 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
Dead starter on a Mercury Sable wagon on the day the Northeast suffered a power blackout. Banged starter a few times with a hammer, no start, replaced it. There are many ways for a starter to fail and the plain dead starter is just one failure mode.

By measuring for 12v on the 'S' terminal each time the ignition switch is turned to START, you eliminated the starting circuit, including the neutral safety start switch and narrowed it down to a faulty starter.

Dragon88Tango 10-06-2017 04:45 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
[QUOTE=fdryer;2256306]Dead starter on a Mercury Sable wagon on the day the Northeast suffered a power blackout. Banged starter a few times with a hammer, no start, replaced it. There are many ways for a starter to fail and the plain dead starter is just one failure mode.

By measuring for 12v on the 'S' terminal each time the ignition switch is turned to START, you eliminated the starting circuit, including the neutral safety start switch and narrowed it down to a faulty starter.[/QUOTE]


The whole "dead" starter threw me for a loop. I've been using this forum for while to matain the car and resolve any doubts that I may have about a procedure. With taht being said, whats the easiest way to get it out and what special tools (if any) would I need?

fdryer 10-06-2017 05:47 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
2 Attachment(s)
The service manual describes Torx mounting bolts. No special problems to removing and replacing L300 starters but manuals never show real world problems........ The usual "disconnect battery negative first before working on electrical parts" is about all the precaution needed here.

Dragon88Tango 10-08-2017 01:52 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
Thanks for all the help guys. The staryer was prettt straight forward. Hardest part was holding it in place while starting a bolt. Foun that if you lie on top of the motor and use a long extension while holding it in place you can get it going no problem.

fdryer 10-08-2017 02:43 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
Mileage of this car? It's useful sometimes when addressing starter history.

02 LW300 10-08-2017 06:37 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
Up and running again! Good job.

Dragon88Tango 10-09-2017 05:53 PM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
[QUOTE=fdryer;2256446]Mileage of this car? It's useful sometimes when addressing starter history.[/QUOTE]

178,000 coast to coast twice, from the gulf to the great lakes too many to count, 3 alternators, 2 timing belts, 2 batteries, 1 crank sensor, 1 fuel pump, and a zip tie holding a loose connector together lol

pierrot 10-11-2017 09:51 AM

Re: 2005 L300 V6 No crank No start
 
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]Congratulations on the getting the vehicle going again![/SIZE][/FONT]
[QUOTE=Dragon88Tango;2256303]......I've never had a starter on any vehicle simply [[B][I][COLOR="red"]quit[/COLOR][/I][/B]] with out making any sort of clicking or hesitation sounds.[/QUOTE][FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]As a point of information only, while this experience was new to you it is not uncommon to those who work in the repair side of the automotive industry. While I would say that a failing starter will [B][U]more[/U][/B] commonly provide some sort of noise when attempting to engage, I saw this type of scenario many times while working for my father at his service station for over nine years while in high school and college.[/SIZE][/FONT]


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