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-   -   Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232610)

steverenio 09-24-2017 01:59 PM

Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
I have a 2007 Aura Xe 3.5l that I bought in Nov. 2015. I seemed like a very smooth car. Had to replace the rack and power steering lines but that was OK.
Then I started throwing ECM codes like 0641, 1682, 0452, 0107, and throttle pedal or body codes . I was always able to clear them out with my code reader or by removing the negative battery cable. Sometimes it would keep throwing the codes then stop and it would run fine for a month or 2. I finally changed the throttle body and the car ran fine for 2 months. Then it threw the same recurring codes and was very hard to restart. I drove it straight to the dealer and they cleared the codes and updated the ECM. The next night I was driving it and it was running fine. I pulled into a parking lot the engine light came on and the car shut off. I checked the codes and they were the same codes as before. I tried to clear them but was unable to. I tried to restart the car and there was a noise coming from the engine compartment. I poped the hood and there was a burning smell. I ended up having the car towed back to the dealer. where after checking it they said the engine was seized. They couldn't tell me why, but I was very suspicious and called Saturn consumer affairs. They talked to the dealer and basically told me there was nothing they could do.
Right now the car sits in my driveway and when you try to start it all you here is the starter running. When I was trying to start it in the parking lot after it made a noise all I heard was a faint click.
Does anyone know if the failed ECM could cause this seized condition (I've ordered a pre-flashed ECM from Flashmasters on that possibility) or what other possibilities could there be. I never got an overheat light or low oil (I checked the oil and it's full and clean)all that happened was the engine light came on.
I am planning on taking the car to an ex-GM mechanic who works out of his garage and he can tear down the engine and hopefully figure out what happened. I hoping it didn't do any internal damage.
The 2007 is is a LZ4 engine, isn't it, which was use in other GM cars up to 2010. If I need a crankshaft where is a good place, other than the dealer to buy one. I'm having a hard time finding one.
I appreciate all comments and suggestions in advance.

Thank you,

Steve

pierrot 09-24-2017 02:28 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]Welcome to SaturnFans, [B][I][COLOR="blue"]steverenio[/COLOR][/I][/B]! I'm sorry that an engine failure is what lead you here...oh well :|

In order to assist you with where to find internal engine parts it would be good to know where you're located. For example, if you were in the Southern CA region I'd have some useful suggestions. You can add that information into your profile by going into the User CP and adding details. Your location could then appear underneath your log-in name.[/SIZE][/FONT]

steverenio 09-24-2017 04:00 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
I just put in my info. Thanks

fdryer 09-24-2017 04:42 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
Technically, a seized engine means a catastrophic mechanical failure where physical damage occurs and the engine locks up. The starter will not turn the engine over and may grunt because the engine seizure prevents the engine from turning over easily. A bent intake or exhaust valve, timing chain damage, broken connecting rod, ignoring oil level checks and running the engine very low on engine oil, etc., can lead to engine damage. if you have above average skills and can manually turn the engine by hand using a long handled wrench, socket, whatever, to see if the engine is truly locked, you can determine if the engine is seized or not. The crankshaft pulley is where you manually turn the engine. A shop can determine this too. On the other hand, the ECM cannot prevent an engine from turning over, by hand or starter if the engine isn't seized. ECM failure usually means the engine will turn over with the starter but fails to run/fire up.

ECM failure and engine seizure are two separate issues. Careful diagnosing can determine which one occurred.

P0641 suggests 5v failure of the ECM, rendering sensors unable to operate with 5v as of the ECM failed. A damaged sensor shorting out 5v or chafed wires can cause a 5v short.

P0107 suggests a map sensor fault, not having 5v.

P0452 suggests a fuel pressure sensor fault. It uses 5v.

P1682 suggests voltage differences in two circuits.

The error codes came from googling for Saturn Aura. Mileage of this car? This may help determine if the starter is worn out, presuming its original.

pierrot 09-24-2017 10:18 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]I was in a bit of a hurry when I put up my previous post.

The presence of powertrain diagnostic trouble codes ([B][U]P[/U]----[/B] series [B]DTC[/B]s) have generally no relation to an engine's seizing up. The most common reasons for this occurance are due to,
1) overheating, or
2) inadequate engine lubrication ([I]insufficinet amount of engine oil[/I]).
Some parts may become warped, or they may become fused together. [B][I][COLOR="blue"]fdryer[/COLOR][/I][/B] rightly points out that this is a catastrophic engine failure.

Many years ago a vehicle was towed into my father's service station in Pasadena. Its engine had been severly overheated. My father's lead mechanic diagnosed it very quickly and confirmed that the engine had seized. It's not difficult to for a mechanic to reach this conclusion. Look it up on line for yourself.

See the articles linked below. If indeed this engine has seized then the likely options ahead of you are,
1) rebuilding/replacing the engine, or
2) replacing the car completely.
:(:(:(

To the best of your knowledge, what is this car's maintenance history - namely, [I][U]but not limited to[/U][/I], oil changes?

[URL="https://www.bishopsautoparts.com/content/what-makes-car%E2%80%99s-engine-seize"]https://www.bishopsautoparts.com/content/what-makes-car%E2%80%99s-engine-seize[/URL]

[URL="https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-an-engine-gets-seized"]https://www.quora.com/What-happens-when-an-engine-gets-seized[/URL]

[URL="http://www.aa1car.com/library/us697.htm"]http://www.aa1car.com/library/us697.htm[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]

steverenio 09-25-2017 09:00 AM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
I bought a timing chain kit but it didn't come with the chain guides. I called the Dealer and was given the wrong part #'s 9for a 3.6 instead of a 3.5) I called another dealer and they told me the 3.5 doesn't use chain guides. Is that true?

Thanks

pierrot 09-25-2017 08:01 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]Take a look at RockAuto.com's website and look up timing components under the ENGINE section for your car. There are various OE parts websites to check. A simple search will reveal multiple websites.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Kailei 10-15-2017 11:03 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
Hi Guys. I'm new and I am hoping someone can help shed some light on a situation I'm in. I bought a 2007 Saturn Aura, rebuilt engine with approximately 75,000 miles. The car drove wonderful for the first 3 days, engine and transmission were running smooth. Oil was changed , all fluid levels good, brand new battery etc. I drove the car to work only 1.5 miles away, came home, parked it in our driveway. Came back out about an hour later, went to start the car and heard this aweful noise under the hood and then the engine went dead. No errors thrown. I called On star for a diagnostic and they told me the test ran clear with no reported errors. I now hear the starter clicking when I turn the ignition, lights come on but the engine is dead. Still no errors.
I am worried its a seized engine but I am hoping there could be something else that could also possibly cause this problem. Not to mention that I didn't do anything to the car other than drive it 3 miles that day and the incident happened with the car being parked. Any suggestions ?

pierrot 10-16-2017 12:16 AM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]Welcome to SaturnFans [B][I][COLOR="blue"]Kailei[/COLOR]![/I][/B]. Please verify the engine size. Although you have posted on to a thread with a similar car there's no way that any of us out here can know which engine is in your car.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[QUOTE=Kailei;2257083]Hi Guys. I'm new and I am hoping someone can help shed some light on a situation I'm in. I bought a 2007 Saturn Aura, rebuilt engine with approximately 75,000 miles. The car drove wonderful for the first 3 days, engine and transmission were running smooth. Oil was changed , all fluid levels good, brand new battery etc. I drove the car to work only 1.5 miles away, came home, parked it in our driveway. Came back out about an hour later, went to start the car and heard this aweful noise under the hood and then the engine went dead. No errors thrown.[/QUOTE][FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]Any time you have a no-start condition be sure to start with the basics.
1) Are the battery cable terminals clean?
2) Verify the battery condition with a complete test (includes a load test which simulates starter power draw), not merely measuring the battery's voltage. While it may be unlikely in this case, occasionally new batteries can go bad (I know, I used to sell them!).
3) Verify that the starter is working correctly.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Kailei;2257083] I called On star for a diagnostic and they told me the test ran clear with no reported errors. I now hear the starter clicking when I turn the ignition, lights come on but the engine is dead. Still no errors.
[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]All that OnStar can do is run a scan on the vehicle's computer memory to determine whether or not any trouble codes have been stored. None having been found, it merely eliminates that item from being considered as contribuiting to the no-start condition. As you already understand, they cannot assist in informing a person about non-computer related problems nor what to do about them.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[QUOTE=Kailei;2257083]I am worried its a seized engine but I am hoping there could be something else that could also possibly cause this problem. Not to mention that I didn't do anything to the car other than drive it 3 miles that day and the incident happened with the car being parked. Any suggestions ?[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]This as far as one should go so as not to leap into creating unnecessary conclusions without more information available. Now, I'm not doubting what you've written, but I must ackowledge that "[I][B][COLOR="blud"]this aweful noise under the hood[/COLOR][/B][/I]" wasn't heard by me (no matter how bad it truly was. [I]It could have been that the starter had a massive failure. [U]What do I really know[/U][/I]?) Take things one step at a time. Avoid any and all presumptions as they may cloud your thinking with regard to what direction a diagnosis might take in finding the root of this problem.

Please keep us informed as to how things progress with this repair concern.[/SIZE][/FONT]

Kailei 10-16-2017 06:22 AM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
Thank you for your reply. Aura 07 3.5 L is the engine. Battery terminal s are clean. Battery is new, in fact my fiance removed the battery and we had it tested to make sure we didn't have a battery issue. Now the starter is a different story, I hear it clicking when I try to turn it over but I didn't know that a starter could throw an aweful noise like that. I will have the starter checked and hope that's the problem. I will keep you informed...thank you so much.

fdryer 10-16-2017 10:31 AM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
Kailei, whether or not you're aware, starter testing can be hit or miss. Anyone claiming store bench testing can determine starter life or death isn't truthful. There are several ways a starter can fail; normal wear and tear until it fails completely or fails intermittently. The only way to determine failure is measuring for voltage on one wire by the starter using a multimeter. This separates a starting circuit from starter problem and cannot be tested any other way to eliminate mistakes in troubleshooting.

Kailei 10-16-2017 11:31 AM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
K guys.. First off , I really appreciate your help. I had the car towed by OnStar to Firestone for a diagnosis. Their diagnosis is that the engine is locked. They didn't say anything about the starter. Now question is, they tried to turn the engine with the starter inline. Could a bad starter cause an engine not to turn or would the engine still turn if a bad or locked starter is inline?
I'm trying my best to describe what's going on and with the information relayed to me. Part of me wants to get another opinion before I drop another $2,000 into the car.
When I described what happened to Firestone they were a little confused as to how this happened with the car parked. They said usually this happens when driving long distances or with a warning. So I may be grasping at straws but I am trying to cover all avenues before I invest in a major repair like this.

pierrot 10-16-2017 12:37 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
[QUOTE=Kailei;2257109]K guys.. First off , I really appreciate your help. I had the car towed by OnStar to Firestone for a diagnosis. Their diagnosis is that the engine is locked. They didn't say anything about the starter. Now question is, they tried to turn the engine with the starter inline. Could a bad starter cause an engine not to turn or would the engine still turn if a bad or locked starter is inline?[/QUOTE][FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]The "clicking" heard from the starter as mentioned in post #5 could suggest a bad starter. Additionally, a bad starter may turn the engine very slowly or be unable to turn it if the stater drive cannot be engaged by the solenoid. ([I]The problem for me is that I just cannot know if your starter is bad[/I].) Typically, an engine seizure means that the crankshaft, and/or parts attached to it, are what has seized internally. Those parts having become seized make it impossible for the starter drive gear to turn the flywheel which would turn the engine.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[QUOTE=Kailei;2257109]I'm trying my best to describe what's going on and with the information relayed to me. Part of me wants to get another opinion before I drop another $2,000 into the car.[/QUOTE][FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]I can understand that. If indeed the engine has seized then the repair is almost certainly going to be much greater that $2,000.00 unless a good used engine is found to replace this one at a reasonable price.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[QUOTE=Kailei;2257109]When I described what happened to Firestone they were a little confused as to how this happened with the car parked. They said usually this happens when driving long distances or with a warning. So I may be grasping at straws but I am trying to cover all avenues before I invest in a major repair like this.[/QUOTE][FONT="Palatino Linotype"][SIZE="3"]I used to be in the automotive repair and aftermarket auto parts business. My reaction to the situation described by you would've been the same as what Firestone's was. Candidly, I'm leaning towards the idea that their diagnosis is correct although I would [B][I][U]prefer[/U][/I][/B] that both they and I would be wrong. Getting a second opinion couldn't hurt. Do you work with a mechanic whom you trust? If so, he might be willing to go where the car is - [I]saving you from a towing charge, if there were to be one[/I] - and examine it there assuming that the folks at the Firestone store would be agreeable to such a thing. [/SIZE][/FONT]

fdryer 10-16-2017 04:41 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
Starters rarely if ever 'lockup' when they're more likely to fail by not working like clicking or intermittently working/not working. One rare failure occurs when you hear a sound like a jet engine, whining at high frequency. The starter gear breaks internally and cannot turn over the engine but the starter motor winds up to make a jet engine sound.

Once in awhile, if an engine truly seizes or locks up and cannot turn over (by using hand tools) the starter will grunt briefly and nothing more. The grunt will last less than a second because a seized engine will not allow a starter to turn at all, just grunt.

$2k dollars may be an overly inflated quote for a major engine repair if it's a seized engine. $2k dollars for a dead/damaged starter is dishonesty on so many levels. From your descriptions, a woman being lied to is exceptionally poor business practice.

Kailei 10-25-2017 10:28 PM

Re: Saturn Aura XE 3.5l Engine seized
 
Ok guys just curious. Is the oil ascending unit capable of being changed in these engines? The engine in my Saturn that locked up only had approximately 80k miles. I spoke to the prior owner and the original engine locked up as well at around 80k too. So just wondering if this is something to consider when I replace it.


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