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Jonasan308 09-02-2017 01:07 PM

Possible fuel filter issue
 
Ive been bedridden the last few days and the boredom made me think and look around on the net. Well. In the midst of that, i thought to look into my issue with that noise near the fuel filter. I found a site that had info about clogged fuel filters.
[url]http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/219[/url]

According to the site, the clogged filter causes power losses, particularly when climbing hills. Also says that it can show up as a O2 sensor.

I went and had my codes read, and got back P0442 and the 02 sensor code (dont remember the numbers for that one)

In addition, im having the weak starts, and i do feel a loss in power when climbing hills. I thought the loss of power was something involving the valve body and it slipping, but it never went away after fixing the valve body.

And, i did find the source of the noise. The hissing noise is the fuel filter, and pressing on it changes the frequency of the noise. So, i suppose if say it is clogged, that a seal blew out somewhere and is causing the hissing.

It seems i forgot to ask how much renting a fuel pressure gauge would be at the store. I meant to ask but i forgot right away. Ill go back and rent it and check the pressure at various points.
I suppose i won't be able to look at pressure while driving right?

OldNuc 09-02-2017 01:55 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
That article is not applicable to your car. I have never seen or heard of an S-Series filter regulator plug up. It is near impossible to have happen for several reasons. If you are so inclined then just replace the entire assembly as you may have an aftermarket POS in there which will eventually fail to low pressure which will cause what you are seeing. Rock Auto WIX 33731 ONLY, do not substitute. Should be listed for your car but if not use manufacturers part number look up.

heroxoot 09-02-2017 01:57 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
Honestly I was having acceleration issues, especially uphill, and changing my fuel filter helped a lot. If you can do it yourself, they are not expensive. One of the things I personally experienced that you have is weak starts sometimes. I'd have to press harder on the peddle to accelerate. It probably couldn't hurt to change it anyway, and they aren't very expensive. I believe a filter should be sub 20 bucks and some of your time.

Jonasan308 09-02-2017 02:09 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
I have the '99 which apparently has the filter and regulator together so my filter seems to be more expensive.
Would the brand of my current filter be on the outside? I dont remember if the guy i bought the car from said the fuel filter was replaced. Mine seems to be relatively shiny, but it could be the metal is resistant to rust. It seems easy enough to do, but id like to be sure its the problem before spending money on it.

OldNuc 09-02-2017 02:19 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
The canister is stainless steel and they are not marked with any ID info usually. There is only a pressure test. Get a fuel pressure tester and see if it leaks down and delivers fuel at 45-51 PSI at idle. Yes they are expensive and that is why people buy the cheap POS.

Buy a pressure tester from harbor freight. [url]https://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-62623.html[/url] Worth the $20.00 it costs.

fdryer 09-02-2017 02:59 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
You can borrow a fuel pressure gauge from Autozone or Advance Auto using a credit card - the value of the pressure gauge is applied to your credit card but isn't charged when returned in the same condition it was loaned out. In effect, its a free loaner for approximately 30 days (one credit card cycle?). My A-z has placemats on every counter with images of loaner tools. If you decide to borrow one, see if they have a longer hose, enough to pass thru the hood seal with gauge out for observation. If a longer hose isn't available, use it as is to at least determine actual pressures (at ignition on time and while idling).

Jonasan308 09-03-2017 08:19 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
I borrowed a fuel pressure tester from autozone. They have 160 dollars of my money ransom. Haha.

I have a few questions. What is the normal fuel pressure range for my 1999? There are 2 bolts that apparently hold the filter to the car, what size are the bolts? And should i buy new bolts if the old ones too far gone in rust?

Waiex191 09-03-2017 08:23 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
I am pretty sure we snapped those two bolts. Had to drill and tap them. They are now 1/4-20 IIRC. Before, I don't remember.

OldNuc 09-03-2017 08:51 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
[QUOTE=Jonasan308;2253613]I borrowed a fuel pressure tester from autozone. They have 160 dollars of my money ransom. Haha.

I have a few questions. What is the normal fuel pressure range for my 1999? There are 2 bolts that apparently hold the filter to the car, what size are the bolts? And should i buy new bolts if the old ones too far gone in rust?[/QUOTE]

45-51PSI key on engine off and the same at idle.

You do NOT have to take the bolts out. Slide 2 small screw drivers between the 2 clips that hold the filter/regulator in the bracket. Then push it out and twist down slightly to get it all the way out.

Check pressures first and if idle is OK then blip throttle and see if it takes any big drops.

Jonasan308 09-03-2017 11:30 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
Checked it while the engine was somewhat cold, and it showed 45 PSI key turned to ACC, and stayed at 44-45 once started. My tester is long enough that i could tape it to my windshield. I can slip it under the hood, and half close the hood, and there happens to be a gap large enough that the hose moves freely, and the gauge can be seen inside the car. (somewhat)

So, i will take a drive around with the tester connected and see what the pressures are throughout the ride and on various terrain. To me, it seems like whatever is happening, it only happens when the car has been driven a while. Starts up fine on the first start of the day, but as the day goes on, the hissing noise shows up and then it suffers from weak sputtering starts, erractic shifting (1st gear shift will be around 18 mph when the noise isnt audible, but if it is, 1st gear will wind out past 18 mph) and loss of power.
It does sound like im on the right track.

OldNuc 09-04-2017 08:31 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
You are already at the low end of OK and this could be either a weak fuel pump when hot or a filter/regulator issue. To try and isolate this requires watching for the pressure dips when the engine load changes or the throttle is opened and closed. If the regulator is working there will be no to minimal pressure changes.

FYI the WIX filter/regulator and the Carter brand fuel pump assembly are the only 2 recommended replacement parts for the fuel delivery system. The FP usually starts to show failing symptoms at high engine loads and low fuel tank level when compared to a full tank. The other common failure symptom for the FP is lower output when hot as to the initial cold start output. All of this info can be collected from that pressure tester.

You are trying to determine which part is failing, filter or pump.

Jonasan308 09-08-2017 04:47 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
Well, i found that the fuel pressure never changed while driving. Up hill, down hill, i couldn't notice any changes while driving. Also doesnt change when i blip the throttle. It stayed at a consistent 44-45. For some reason, i no longer hear the noise but i still have weak starts. I dont think i drove it enough for the pressure tester to catch pressure when it starts weakly.

I definitely think it seems to get worse as the day goes on and its driven more and gets hotter. I suppose the reason i may not hear the sound is because it is much colder now and the car doesnt get as hot so easily.

My SES light also turns on and off for some reason.

I have noticed the car accelerates just fine on flat land and downhill fine, but going up a incline or hill, it feels slower than normal.

If the fuel pressure didnt change when i give it throttle, does this mean the pump itself is suspect?

OldNuc 09-08-2017 05:28 PM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
Generally the OEM or WIX filter/regulator will be closer to 50 psi but that depends on the calibration/condition of the gauge. Pump discharge pressure can be checked but that takes special adapters to connect direct to the pump discharge line back at the tank. The Carter pump unit is a 130.00 part so guessing gets expensive and the cheap ones do not last long. I would try to get it all hot enough to hear the noise again and check it then.

Jonasan308 09-19-2017 07:55 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
2 days from now, im going to borrow the fuel pressure gauge again. I needed the deposit back so i had to take the gauge i borrowed back.

My car has now gotten to where it barely will start, and now takes longer to crank. It seems to be worse if fuel tank level is low, it starts better if over 1/4 tank.
But, this only occurs once the car has been driven and allowed to sit for about 15 mins or so. If i went out an started it right now, it would start up very strongly and right away.

I can now smell more fuel than normal when i turn the key and i hear noise.

This time, i think i will be able to see different pressures.

OldNuc 09-19-2017 08:11 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
That is either the filter regulator or the pump. It sounds more like the pump.

Saturn Night 09-19-2017 08:31 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
[QUOTE=Jonasan308;2253507]Ive been bedridden the last few days and the boredom made me think and look around on the net. Well. In the midst of that, i thought to look into my issue with that noise near the fuel filter. I found a site that had info about clogged fuel filters.
[url]http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/219[/url]

According to the site, the clogged filter causes power losses, particularly when climbing hills. Also says that it can show up as a O2 sensor.

I went and had my codes read, and got back P0442 and the 02 sensor code (dont remember the numbers for that one)

In addition, im having the weak starts, and i do feel a loss in power when climbing hills. I thought the loss of power was something involving the valve body and it slipping, but it never went away after fixing the valve body.

And, i did find the source of the noise. The hissing noise is the fuel filter, and pressing on it changes the frequency of the noise. So, i suppose if say it is clogged, that a seal blew out somewhere and is causing the hissing.

It seems i forgot to ask how much renting a fuel pressure gauge would be at the store. I meant to ask but i forgot right away. Ill go back and rent it and check the pressure at various points.
I suppose i won't be able to look at pressure while driving right?[/QUOTE]

I actually have a fuel pressure test gauge. I have to be in Geauga County, around 3:15pm, today, to take a friend to get a Cat scan done. I have this weekend off, so I could always swing down to Akron with that gauge, if you really get jammed up. Running a fuel pressure test doesn't take but 5 minutes.

Saturn Night 09-19-2017 08:36 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
Looking at all the posts, I suspect your fuel pump is on its way out, too. The fuel is a heat sink, in the tank. Also check your plugs. I was having similar symptoms and pulled my plugs to see high-speed glazing and rounded tips(indicative plugs are burning too-hot and due for replacement).

Jonasan308 09-19-2017 08:53 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
I think illl need the gauge for more than a few minutes, thanks for the offer though.

I will check the plugs when the engine is cool again, if i was running lean, would it show up on the plugs as white?

OldNuc 09-19-2017 11:20 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
The major causes of either rich or lean mixture are fuel pressure, and/or exhaust leaks. If you do not set a 171-172 code then you are not running rich or lean as the system is correcting for your hidden failure. This is why you must know what the idle and cruise fuel trim is. Properly operating plugs in a NON OIL BURNING engine will shoe a gray shadow under the ground electrode on the center porcelain. If it is an oil burner you run the hottest plugs you can get away with.

Saturn Night 09-23-2017 07:59 AM

Re: Possible fuel filter issue
 
[QUOTE=Jonasan308;2254873]I think illl need the gauge for more than a few minutes, thanks for the offer though.

I will check the plugs when the engine is cool again, if i was running lean, would it show up on the plugs as white?[/QUOTE]

Lean conditions will show white plugs. High-speed glazing is slightly different. You are getting enough fuel, but it is burning so hot, that the deposits are actually creating a conductive coating on the tips/insulator of the plug, which wears out the plug and increases the gap


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