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-   -   Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=117060)

quickster 04-14-2008 08:21 PM

Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
This week-end, if the weather co-operates, I plan on replacing all TAM components on my 2002 SL-2. My question is, do I loosen and re-torque the two nuts on the engine strut bracket (fore/aft preload) while it's still on the jackstands, or do I wait until the car is sitting on all four tires? Any advice that might make the lower transmission mount easier to change,would be great. At first look, the inner fenderwell looks like it could be in the way when raising the transmission.

hrbchan 04-14-2008 08:44 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
2 Attachment(s)
I believe you have to remove the jack under the oil pan or transmission before loosing and tightening the 2 nuts, but you might still need to raise your car or put it on stands, as there is not enough room to get into that area.

It's not that difficult to take the lower engine mount or tranny mount out, but much harder to put the new one back in as the new one is not "compressed" (see attached). I finally used a 2x4 with the cradle as pivot point to move the transmission horizontally for a few mm to let the new one slide in the position. Also, the 2 nuts on the frame side of the top mount should be loosed to give more room for the engine to move. After replacing the bottom tranny mount, replacing the top is a breeze.

Enjoy the "new" quiet and smooth Saturn after the new mounts installed. It's a huge difference.

quickster 04-14-2008 09:07 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Thanks hrbchan.
I'm trying to picture where and how you used the 2x4. I forgot to add that mine is an automatic transmission which is bigger, not much room to raise it. Is yours also an automatic? Was the fenderwell an issue? I'll definitely take your advice on loosening two nuts on engine mount. I was also thinking of loosening the transmission dogbone also, or is it necessary? Thanks again.

hrbchan 04-14-2008 09:23 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
1 Attachment(s)
Mine is automatic transmission. The fender is easy to remove, only 1 plastic screw, and 1 snap-on.

After I removed the old tranny mount, I found that I need an extra 2mm to slide the new one in. No matter how I jacked up the tranny, the space/gap seems unchanged. Then I tried move the tranny horizontally to the passenger side by using a 3 feet 2x4, as it's not easy to move the tranny by hand. Just that little move, the tranny mount dropped to the position. Then I lowered the tranny slowly to align the 2 holes to put the screws back.

Loose the top tranny dogbone and the top engine mount will help put the new tranny mount back, as it provides more room for movement.

I only replaced the top engine mount and the tranny mount. According to some senior guys like Wolfman said, the dogbones are normally OK, as they are not bearing the weight.

Also see attached a pic of the 2 nuts. There are 3 holes in that area. It's the 2 inside ones.

quickster 04-15-2008 04:44 AM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Now I understand. Thanks for explaining. I was thinking when you said horizontally, you meant front to back. Now I know exactly. What I meant about the fender was after removing the splash shields, the metal frame or fenderwell at the top, closest to the transmission looks very close to the tranny. But it must not be an issue, so I wont worry about it. I took everything apart to have a look this past week-end, that's why I know the engine dogbone is shot. The transmission dogbone is the only one I didn't investigate, so I figured if I'm going to change the other three, I may as well change that one also. Do you think I should replace any of the nuts, and if so, will the hardware store have them? Thanks hrbchan for all your advice and the pictures are a great help.

JerryHughes 04-15-2008 07:32 AM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
This may help-----------
[url]http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37578[/url]

Jerry

quickster 04-15-2008 07:58 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Oh yeah.

This will help. Thank you very much hrbchan and Jerry for taking the time and effort to get me on the right track for this project. I also want to thank everyone who took the time to view this post. I'm very much looking forward to completing it successfully. Thanks again.

JerryHughes 04-15-2008 09:00 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Whoops, Richpin just made another video of this very process. Here it is---
[url]http://www.youtube.com/richpin06a[/url]

Jerry

quickster 04-15-2008 09:19 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Thanks again Jerry. This is Great!

I can only hope that it goes half as well for me. Richpin is something else, isn't he? I won't sleep too well until this is done. I can't wait to get started.

Appreciate it.

hrbchan 04-15-2008 09:20 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
1 Attachment(s)
I don't have the screws replaced as they look OK, even though it's rusty. I sprayed some liquid wrench the night before, as advised by other senior guys here, but I found that the 2 nuts at the bottom were still quite tight. The 5 at the top mount were easy to remove, but the 3 studs on the engine side come out with the nuts. I could not have the nuts separated from the stud. So tight that just like it's being welded. So I just tightened it back.

My old top mount was so bad that I needed to further jack up the engine to close the gap (see attached) between the engine and the new top mount, before tightening the 3 on the engine side of it.

JerryHughes 04-15-2008 09:47 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
[QUOTE=quickster;1234564]Thanks again Jerry. This is Great!

I can only hope that it goes half as well for me. Richpin is something else, isn't he? I won't sleep too well until this is done. I can't wait to get started.

Appreciate it.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Richpin is the tops! So many videos that we can and will use in the future. So helpful to me, who is mechanically challenged! :)

Jerry

JerryHughes 04-16-2008 07:30 AM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Hey quickster, are you replacing your tranny mount with stock, from Saturn? If so, does your mount have an anchor stamped into the metal?? Just curious because I bought one from Saturn and it had the anchor and I'm wondering why. Thanks,

Jerry

MikeNW 04-16-2008 09:18 AM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
After hassling with the lower tranny mount, while replacing my clutch, I would grind the lower stud a bit, it's too long anyway.

You need only one or 2 threads exposed beyond the nut, when it is snugged in place.

JerryHughes 04-16-2008 09:29 AM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
[QUOTE=MikeNW;1234747]After hassling with the lower tranny mount, while replacing my clutch, I would grind the lower stud a bit, it's too long anyway.

You need only one or 2 threads exposed beyond the nut, when it is snugged in place.[/QUOTE]


Thanks, I may do that. I'll feel under there and see how much I can hack off. I just wonder why G.M. would waste the steel when they don't have to? Usually a car company engineers a component right down to the least they can, to save money. After all, they are probably making millions of these. I'm wondering why all the extra thread---unless it makes assembly at the plant so much easier that it's worth using the extra metal?

Jerry

BarnOwl 04-16-2008 10:07 AM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Personally, I think the long stud makes it easier. Raise the tranny. Get the mount on the frame. Put the nut on a few threads. Lower the tranny just enough to allow you to pull the mount up and get the upper bolts in a few threads. Then lower the tranny the rest of the way. The mount will guide it into place. Torque everything down. If the stud's too short, you have to get the tranny placed exactly to get the upper bolts in.

JerryHughes 04-16-2008 12:06 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
[QUOTE=BarnOwl;1234769]Personally, I think the long stud makes it easier. Raise the tranny. Get the mount on the frame. Put the nut on a few threads. Lower the tranny just enough to allow you to pull the mount up and get the upper bolts in a few threads. Then lower the tranny the rest of the way. The mount will guide it into place. Torque everything down. If the stud's too short, you have to get the tranny placed exactly to get the upper bolts in.[/QUOTE]

What I was thinking was that if I could cut that thread so that I could get the new mount back in the hole close to the same place where I took the old one off, without having to jack the tanny up further (which throws off the alignment of the "mate") I could possibly install the other two bolts and just drop everything down without having to use a pry-bar to shift the tranny, to line things up. I'll let you know how it went when my other mount gets here. ;) Waiting for the upper dogbone to get here from Fleabay. :)

Jerry

MikeNW 04-16-2008 02:04 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
GM uses that particular stud because it was probably a commonly used part. $$$ drives GM decisions. Probably cheaper to use that stud than make a shorter one. Or the tranny mount supplier uses it when making the mount, same reason.

Just my thought.

I would try jacking the tranny/engine, and using the stud as-is, that avoids the cutting or grinding operation. :cool: But it's an alternate.

JerryHughes 04-16-2008 05:21 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
[QUOTE=MikeNW;1234948]I would try jacking the tranny/engine, and using the stud as-is, that avoids the cutting or grinding operation. :cool: But it's an alternate.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for your input. Don't know what I'll do until I get into the job. :)

Jerry

hrbchan 04-16-2008 07:13 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
2 Attachment(s)
[QUOTE=JerryHughes;1234696]Hey quickster, are you replacing your tranny mount with stock, from Saturn? If so, does your mount have an anchor stamped into the metal?? Just curious because I bought one from Saturn and it had the anchor and I'm wondering why. Thanks,

Jerry[/QUOTE]

The one I installed is from Saturn (see attached). There are 2 holes on the cradle holding the lower tranny mount. The inside one is for the stud, the outside one is for the anchor (The attached pic. with the 2 holes is a bit blurred).

quickster 04-16-2008 07:53 PM

Re: Replacing Engine/Trans.Mounts
 
Sorry Jerry, I got home kind of late from work. Thanks hrbchan, for answering Jerry and supplying the photos. No Jerry, I bought the Anchor brand (not very impressed either), and yes, it does have an anchor stamped on the bottom.

Jerry, the only reason I can think of for that anchor is that it may be used for locating the mount in just the right position, and possibly giving the mount a little more stability. Does that sound reasonable? Please reply back so I know you got this.

hrbchan, that puppy (top mount) was worn out huh? I'd say you got more than its life out of that one. I can imagine how much of a difference you noticed after changing it.

I've read so many different torque spec's people have used for these four mounts. hrbchan, Jerry, or anyone else, what are your thoughts on this?


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