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Charlie 02-11-2008 10:10 PM

Saturn Hybrid Update
 
A new story entry has been added:

[drupal=1805]Saturn Hybrid Update[/drupal]

[quote]The availability of Saturn's 2008 hybrid vehicles[/quote]

polodude1017 02-12-2008 03:45 AM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
I work for Saturn of San Diego, the other day we got an email saying that we will be getting our first Hybrids on Mar 1st. And then slowly more will come. Lets hope they are correct this time

BuySaturn 02-12-2008 12:37 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
And GM wants to know why their financial losses in North America are soooo huge. Hey GM, try to GET THE DARN VEHICLES TO MARKET AS PROMISED!!!! DUH! Also, I hate this "market darwinism" where only certain so called "top tier" markets get the product. Screw the rest of you!

Bertillion 02-12-2008 05:50 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
Yikes, if they are having trouble still with getting the "mild" hybrids out I guess I shouldn't expect to see the dual mode hybrid VUE for a long time. :(

bolosmith 02-13-2008 04:49 AM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
Saturn Sky stupidity all over again: "Uh, no you can't drive it, touch
it, sit in it or smell it... We just want your money so that we can
order one... And, when will we get it? Who knows..."

Wanna know why I didn't buy a Saturn Sky, and probably will never
buy a Greeline Saturn of any kind? Duh...

-bob

darrelld 02-13-2008 05:54 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
Could it be the delays are to insure all product problems are resolved in preproduction ramp-up? I prefer to wait until they get it right before buying my new two-mode Vue.

hyperlexis 02-14-2008 04:58 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
If this were Japanese company, the bosses would have likely already committed ritual suicide by now.

This is just insane. The Aura/Malibu hybrids are going to have to wait until 2009 for "regular production"? They had more of them in early 2007 than they do now.

So the company that is promosing me a Chevy Volt in 2010 is now telling me that it can't really get many of its mild hybrid BAS-I models out until 2009, with no word on a Two-Mode Vue at all, and certainly no hint as to a BAS-II or Two-Mode Aura/Malibu.

By 2009 or 2010 I will either have bought a Fiat 500 or a Prius.

Please hurry up GM. Time has been wasting for about four years now. :sleep:

Bertillion 02-15-2008 09:33 AM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
[QUOTE=darrelld;1201099]Could it be the delays are to insure all product problems are resolved in preproduction ramp-up? I prefer to wait until they get it right before buying my new two-mode Vue.[/QUOTE]


That is the reson, but they shouldn't set dates and projected production numbers if they cannot hold to their word. :arr:

hyperlexis 02-20-2008 12:22 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
At the Chicago Auto Show they had all the GM hybrids, including the new two-mode SUVs, up on platforms and turntables, and you couldn't get into any of them. Last year they had the Aura Hybrid on the display floor.

What are you doing GM? This just gets more and more worrisome.

:stoplight

wolfman 02-20-2008 01:59 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
It may go further than that. With the intro of a 4 cyl Aura etc.. the difference in MPG between a "Greenline" and a conventional 4 cyl has become so relatively miniscule, that the Greenline is simply not worth the extra $$$. Consumers are doing the math, and with few real world exceptions, a Greenline will never succeed in "paying for itself" in fuel savings. Add to that owners reporting real world MPG numbers that are pretty far off the "sticker" and that bottom line...well...has the bottom fall out of it.

GM needs (needed to develop) a REAL hybrid along similiar lines to the offerings of Toyota and Honda. The Greenline system, as I have posted for over a year now, is not even in the same ballpark, it is little more than a bigger battery and starter motor used to restart a conventional 4 cylinder more often after it is shut down by some pretty simple software whenever the car is holding still for more than a few moments.

Although the wear and tear would be greater on the vehicle, I'd be willing to bet the average driver could achieve "Greenline" MPG numbers by simply shutting off their conventional 4 cyl cars at red lights and restarting them when the light turns green... no "system" needed.

hyperlexis 02-20-2008 05:55 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
Eh well, kinda. I have seen that SAE white paper they did on the GM BAS-I hybrid system and it really did seem very intricate and complex for what it offered. The system does provide some boost and other functionality, like being able to operate the accessories like AC with the engine off, so it's not really the same as shutting off a standard car. Also I would argue that the cost for the hybrid system when you figure in the tax rebate is almost nothing -- someone on here once explained it was like a 600 or 800 premium over the base Aura, and it gets you stability control and some other features like alloy wheels that are not found on the base. So I think the beauty of the system is that it really would have a very short payback period.

That said, other than the pretty badges that proclaim "Hybrid" to the world, there is not a lot of excitement with the BAS, at least as GM currently markets it. I test drove two of the 07 greenline Auras and they drove well, but relatively slowly. A standard 4-cylinder I think would be a real dog, although maybe not because it lacks the battery pack. Either way the car is still too damn heavy. GM could have done a lot better to cut its weight down. Look at what the other car makers have been able to do with aluminum and alloys and the Aura/Malibu Hybrids lack all of those measures.

The whole thing has become sort of a farce. No availability, no marketing, no wow factor. It's the new two-mode, transmission-based hybrid system that's going to be the Prius' competition. GM however, I don't know if has even released anything on putting that system into a sedan. They seem to be focusing the two-mode system solely on their SUVs and their trucks. They have a lot of good reasons for that, but well, I want to buy a super efficient compact or mid-sized sedan, not a full sized SUV. Oh well......

wolfman 02-20-2008 10:51 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
[QUOTE=hyperlexis;1204472] Also I would argue that the cost for the hybrid system when you figure in the tax rebate is almost nothing -- someone on here once explained it was like a 600 or 800 premium over the base Aura, and it gets you stability control and some other features like alloy wheels that are not found on the base. So I think the beauty of the system is that it really would have a very short payback period.[/quote]

The "tax rebates" expired some months ago if I am not mistaken...

[quote]That said, other than the pretty badges that proclaim "Hybrid" to the world, there is not a lot of excitement with the BAS, at least as GM currently markets it. I test drove two of the 07 greenline Auras and they drove well, but relatively slowly. A standard 4-cylinder I think would be a real dog, although maybe not because it lacks the battery pack. Either way the car is still too damn heavy. GM could have done a lot better to cut its weight down. Look at what the other car makers have been able to do with aluminum and alloys and the Aura/Malibu Hybrids lack all of those measures.[/quote]

Excellent and accurate points all.

[quote]The whole thing has become sort of a farce. No availability, no marketing, no wow factor. It's the new two-mode, transmission-based hybrid system that's going to be the Prius' competition. GM however, I don't know if has even released anything on putting that system into a sedan. They seem to be focusing the two-mode system solely on their SUVs and their trucks. They have a lot of good reasons for that, but well, I want to buy a super efficient compact or mid-sized sedan, not a full sized SUV. Oh well......[/QUOTE]

In my mind anyway, to be a true "Hybrid" the vehicle has to have the ability to be propelled solely by the electric motor for more than a few feet....(if that) Though to be fair, in the cold NE winter, I have yet to see a Prius even in the city, that does not have exhaust coming out of its tailpipe...

ChrisDelMar 02-21-2008 05:27 PM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
I really wanted an Aura hybrid, put down a deposit and waited nearly 7 months before giving up and buying a Honda Civic hybrid. The Honda dealer had six on the lot to choose from and the whole process took just over 3 hours. This is a first car for my teenage daughters, so I'm guessing they'll develop brand loyalty to Honda. I hope GM eventually gets its act together on hybrids.

K-1 02-22-2008 10:33 AM

Re: Saturn Hybrid Update
 
[QUOTE=wolfman;1204608]The "tax rebates" expired some months ago if I am not mistaken...[/QUOTE]The tax credit starts to phase out in the quarter [i]after[/i] the quarter in which the manufacturer sells their 60,000th hybrid. GM hasn't sold 60,000 hybrids yet, so the credit ($1,300 for AURA/Malibu) is still in full-effect. Toyota's, however, expired Oct. 1st, 2007.


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