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-   -   2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113067)

Joe SL2 02-04-2008 11:47 AM

2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
I know lots of you saw/ responded to my original post about this, and even after taking it to the dealer and being very assertive with them about not accepting "no problem" for an answer, I still can't let this go...

I changed the fluid w/ mobile 1 atf, and new oem filter, and still no results.

Brief summary = 2002 sl2, 52k, tranny revs between 2nd and 3rd on cold starts and goes away after car has warmed to runnin temp...
(if you care to see full description i gave, go here... [URL="http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112726"]http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112726[/URL])

Anyway, everyone's diagnoses of TCC lockup seems logical, but it produces such a pronounced jostle of everyone in the car that I can't imagine this is normal (esp since my 99 doesn't do it at ALL and it has 115k)

Here's the video I posted on YouTube,
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEgXYcHvU34"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEgXYcHvU34[/URL]
I run it a couple of times, but watch the shift at about 11 seconds, it spikes from 2300 to about 2800 rpm, and that is NOT my foot, it does that every time on a cold start. The rest of the video is just me repeating this a couple of more times...

Joe

kim_lombard 02-04-2008 12:01 PM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
I've had similiar problems (slip, then a bang).

Several things to look into.

1) check the electrical system (how old is the battery - check the alternator is working up to spec)

2) try wolfmans "reverse slam cure" - see the how-to-forum (it fixes a lot on em and I'm sure saturn won't try this)

3) one of the solenoids in the valve body may be going bad. read the posts in the saturn tech section on "valve body".

My two cents worth is this is the beginning of something more significant with the tranny. Have the dealer let the car sit all night and drive it cold in the morning to reproduce the problem.

Joe SL2 02-04-2008 10:05 PM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
[QUOTE=kim_lombard;1195680]
My two cents worth is this is the beginning of something more significant with the tranny. Have the dealer let the car sit all night and drive it cold in the morning to reproduce the problem.[/QUOTE]

I did, and they still insist there are no problems. I'm kinda pissed about it. I have no reason to think the alternator or battery are bad, but isn't the reverse slam cure for just that? I did replace fluid and filter to no avail already....

How sure are you that this is a major issue, in my other post another guy just said that his 99 has been doing this for years, and said its a valve body issue, and he's had no problems with it besides this.

kim_lombard 02-05-2008 12:26 AM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
Well, this is a hydraulic transmission. The pressure is regulated by electrically controller actuators. It's slamming because the actuator isn't doing it's job. It's either faulty or isn't getting enough juice (electricity) to shift when the computer commands it to do so (so it lags, then shifts and meanwhile the rpms have increased, hence the BANG).

The problem is that the side affect of frequent banging is that the input shaft nut (inside the tranny) can back out and the problem become more than just the valve body.

That's why I suggest that it's not a good idea to just ignore. I've bought several used saturns that had the problem that you describe after a few more months of driving. In most cases theres and easy fix (replace the valve body). But if left long enough the transmission can become damaged enough that it needs to be swapped (cost at a local transmission shop may exceed the value of the car).

There are some really knowledgeable people on this forum that can help you make an informed decision.

I'm guessing that as it gets worse you will eventually have a service engine soon light come on and that may be enough proof for your dealer (I can't recall if you said this was a Saturn dealer or just a used car lot).

The fact that you only have 50,000 or so miles on the car is a little troublesome. But I've seen several with only 80,000 have it bad enough that you don't want to drive it to the corner market.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you make out.

Regards,

Kim

Joe SL2 02-05-2008 12:38 AM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
Well, i appreciate the time for the long post. The reason I don't think its a 'major issue' is because so many people have described the exact same thing as I am, and are calling it part of the normal torque converter clutch.

Thing is, the 2002 runs PERFECT once warm. I would not describe it as a "slam" as you did either. Its simply a noticeable rev and pause between 2nd and 3rd when the car is cold. My only complaint is that it seems a bit too noticeable and too long of a pause.

On a side note, how big of a job, and costs are associated with replacin teh valve body?

thanks,
Joe

kim_lombard 02-05-2008 11:06 AM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
See this post in the how-too section of this forum:

I guess I'd try this first:

[url]http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23670&highlight=reverse+slam[/url]

If that doesn't cure it then:

[url]http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98659[/url]

You can get a used one for around $50.00 on ebay shipped to you.

OR

You can replace the pressure control solenoid - cost NEW solenoid $70.00

YouTube video

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUSSj_2eHUY[/url]

Joe SL2 02-05-2008 12:20 PM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
I appreciate all of your input, but i don't have a SINGLE symptom of reverse slam. I've put it in reverse in cold, hot, warm, and no problems ever. Like i said, it runs perfect when warm too. Most of the descriptions i've heard mention reverse slam at all times, and only occasionally have issues in 1 thru 4 gears.

I'm going to test the battery and alternator to be thurough, but i don't see how being warm would all of a sudden make the alternator/battery work better, so i doubt these are the problem.

I'm almost tempted to just double check the ECTS to make sure its a brass one.

What about just resetting the PCM by leaving the neg battery terminal off. This way it clears prior "learned driving habits"...

What do you think?

doser 02-11-2008 03:17 PM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
Is it cold outside where you live? I have a 98 SL2, and when it's cold the torque converter clutch doesn't even engage till the engine warms up. So, I don't see that rpm drop. But once it's warm, every gear does that rpm drop to some extent when the clutch kicks in. Mine doesn't drop nearly that much though (except if I'm accelerating really heavy).

TXSaturn02 02-11-2008 03:24 PM

Re: 2002 SL2 Transaxle STILL revs from 2nd to 3rd when cold -- now w/ youtube video
 
[QUOTE=doser;1199573]Is it cold outside where you live? I have a 98 SL2, and when it's cold the torque converter clutch doesn't even engage till the engine warms up. So, I don't see that rpm drop. But once it's warm, every gear does that rpm drop to some extent when the clutch kicks in. Mine doesn't drop nearly that much though (except if I'm accelerating really heavy).[/QUOTE]

I believe he already knows what his problem is - was resolved on a different thread. There was a TSB on his particular problem.

He made several threads on the same issue - he was getting a little anxious to resolve his problem before his 30 day warranty had expired.


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