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-   -   Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50415)

Nowhere Man 03-07-2005 11:49 AM

Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
Seeing as the Ion and Cobalt have the same frame and are the same car with only one minor difference (steel panels vs. plastic panels), yet the cobalt scored higher on the [URL=http://www.iihs.org/news_releases/2005/pr030605.htm]IIHS crash tests[/URL] . Comparing pictures we see the cobalt and ion reacted pretty much the same in all crash tests. I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.
[U]Front crash tests[/U]
[B]Cobalt[/B]:
[IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988cobalt-action_shot1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988cobalt-side_shot1.jpg[/IMG]
[B]Ion[/B]:
[IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988ion-action_shot1.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988ion-side_shot1.jpg[/IMG]
Notice how the fronts crumpled the same and how they both maintained their safety cages. Yet the Ion recieved an average and the cobalt recieved a Good. Now onto the side crash tests.

Cont. below

Nowhere Man 03-07-2005 11:51 AM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
[U]Side Crash Tests[/U]
[B]Cobalt[/B]:
[IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988cobalt-side_impact.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988cobalt-driver_airbag.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988cobalt-passenger_airbag.jpg[/IMG]

cont. below

Nowhere Man 03-07-2005 11:54 AM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
[B]Ion[/B]:
[IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988ion-side_impact.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988ion-driver_airbag.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12215/8988ion-passenger_airbag.jpg[/IMG]
What do you guys think about this? Does the difference in door panel materials really make that much of a difference?

OhioVueBoy 03-07-2005 12:07 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
The reason the ION rated lower is that the steering wheel snapped off.
~D.J.~

VTHokie00SL2 03-07-2005 12:17 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
I think it was more than the steering wheel coming off, but regardless, just being on the same platform doesn't mean that the vehicles are structurally identical under the sheetmetal. Take a look at the performance of the Saab 9-3. Isn't that built on the same platform as other GM vehicles with lower crash test ratings?

And keep in mind, the design of the seats, restraint systems, dashboard, and numerous other factors beyond just the safety cage come into play.

And is Charlie doing a little damage control by posting those crash stories on the main page? ;)

Citation84 03-07-2005 02:35 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
Also note that the dashboard of the ION looks like it is jammed into the left knee possibly causing an injury and lowering the test result.
Also remember that the IIHS is a government lobbying group funded by the insurance companies. Interesting data, but no big surprises.There are an infinite # of variables in every accident. Nice to know but I don't feel as if I'm driving anything more or less "safe, or less safe than the Cobalt or Neon or anything else. Accidents don't happen under such controlled conditions out on the street.
I used to drive a 99 Cavalier with ABS and traction control. Now I have an 05 ION w/out either of those things, how much "safer" am I now?

haypops 03-07-2005 03:46 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
The ION results are not as bad as you might think. The following qoute is from the poster"evok" at [url]www.cheersandgears.com[/url] He is an insider in the automotive industry and I have found his information always helpful and correct.
[QUOTE]I just compared the actual test data from the IIHS frontal crash test for the Ion and Cobalt. I am not refering to the rating but the actual data.[/QUOTE]

[URL=http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13552&st=30]click here for thread containing this quote[/URL]

VTHokie00SL2 03-07-2005 04:19 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
At first I was disappointed in the Mazda 3's performance, but it actually got an "acceptable" rating for the structure, and would probably do as well as the Toyota Corolla if equipped with the optional side and curtain airbags. I wish they would just test all cars with side airbags if they're available as an option. We already know that cars without them do poorly in this test, so why bother wasting the money...I'd have liked to see how the 3 did with the side airbags.

haypops 03-07-2005 04:39 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
full quote follows:

<<I just compared the actual test data from the IIHS frontal crash test for the Ion and Cobalt. I am not refering to the rating but the actual data.

It does appear that GM improved the structural integrity of the Cobalt vs the Ion but in the actual crash performace of the two vehicles after looking at the crash data of the dummy there is little variability in the two vehicles and what variability there is, is not a concern for me. Both vehicle perfomed comperable even though the Saturn had more intrusion and A pillar deformation. From a perfomance standpoint both vehicles are similar.

Here is a link to the IIHS data.

Note the HIC 15 value or Head Injury Criteria which is a measure of injury for the Cobalt and Ion:

Cobalt: 231
Ion: 245

Inorder for you to understand that value, the old benchmark set by FMVSS 208 was a 1000 and the new benchmark as of last year is 700. The 700 bench marke is for a full frontal barrier test at app 30mph. This is a speed well below the 40 mph use by the IIHS.

Besides the Cobalt and Saturn being well below the FMVSS 208 benchmark, the slight variability between the two vehicles could be attributed to test variability.

Please bare in mind I am just refereing to the frontal crash and not the side impact test>>

sorry that the original cut cut off.

cdp326 03-07-2005 05:33 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
Hmm...

[QUOTE]QUOTE (CSpec @ Mar 6 2005, 10:05 PM)
Volvo gets a ton of sales for their safety reputation.

regfootball:
and I would say this effectively kills Saturn's rep for 'safety'. [/QUOTE]

cdp326 03-07-2005 05:47 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
Hey, anyone else notice that the Cobalt's torso injury rating magically goes down from Good to Marginal when curtain airbags are added? :?:

VTHokie00SL2 03-07-2005 05:49 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
This quote from that thread bothers me...

[i]If I were shopping for a small car right now, I think I would cross everything except Cobalt and Corolla of my list. [/i]

Those cars did just as poorly as the rest when tested without side airbags. The Mazda 3 was actually rated better than the Corolla on the structure/safety cage, and would probably have seen a similar improvement if they tested with the available side airbags. That's why I think the Dateline presentation was kind of misleading. If the Mazda folks were smart, they would have requested and paid for a second test with the side airbags, as GM and Toyota did.

GM definitely needs to add lower side airbags to go along with the curtains. :yes:

cdp326 03-07-2005 05:55 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
I HATE IT when newscasters report on crash test ratings. Very rarely does a report go by without some mess up. :hmpf: A local news station just now reported on them. The guy said Hyonda Elantra. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=VTHOKIE97SL2]GM definitely needs to add lower side airbags to go along with the curtains.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you one-hundred and fifty freaking percent on that one!
Quote from that site:
[QUOTE]It seems to be the GP and LaX that only have curtains, not torsos. And the '05 Imp and Monte only offer a side torso bag for the driver. ('06 Imp gets curtains only and '06 Monte gets left and right torsos only). WHY is GM doing this? I'd rather the full compliment of bags standard than OnStar, thank you very much!!
[/QUOTE]

:no: I'll take the SAB's AND HCAB's over OnStar too, thank you very much.

But then, it seems only a matter of time before they are required equipment as well.

Now...let's see the minivan side-impact tests! :yes:

saturncanuck 03-08-2005 02:42 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
[QUOTE=OhioVueBoy]The reason the ION rated lower is that the steering wheel snapped off.
~D.J.~[/QUOTE]

Ion and Cobolt (Pursuit in Canada) use the same steering wheel and steering column as they both use the same EPS. Frame is the same too.

Just goes to show, the same car can be crashed two different times with two different results.

The bigger issue is obvious now -- IIHS crashes ONE car and assumes that this is the way that ALL of them will behave.

Has anyone heard of Chaos Theory....??

:sneeze:

VTHokie00SL2 03-08-2005 03:03 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
When they test the same model twice, the structures always perform the same. I think the ION and the Cobalt are obviously different enough. And the structures look like they held up about the same, but there are other factors that affect forces on the occupants.

Red_Forman 03-10-2005 04:31 AM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
The A-pillar on the ION looks like it buckled up a little...maybe due to the difference in greenhouse design. The ION's is a more extreme arch than the Cobalt's...I think.

atomicshark 03-13-2005 09:07 PM

Re: Ion vs. Cobalt Crash Test Pictures
 
Remember that the Ion was designed first. That being said, the Cobalt had the advantage of starting with a good structure and tweaking it a bit more to improve safety.

All cars can be improved upon even if it is the same structure/model. I remember reading how some cars that had done poorly were reinforced by using the crash data provided and they actually got a good rating the next year.


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