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-   -   Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231231)

OldNuc 04-18-2018 05:39 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
You can use any auto trans that is from a DOHC car, marked MP7, 91-02. The bet bet will be a 98-99 vintage trans with low miles. The 00-02 are OK as well. You should change the axle seals while the trans is no the ground. To ID the trans find the numbers. Info and links below.

How to find them
How to check the trans model number. There is no tag. Look right between the top 2 transmission to engine mounting bolts. Clean the area with a rag and brake cleaner, do not use any abrasive! Take a large tip sharpie pen and rub it in the center of the case between those bolts. You will see some 1/2" high dot matrix letters and numbers. They are quite hard to read. You are interested in the first 4 positions.The 1st position is the year code and may be either a number or letter, the 2nd position is the letter M, the 3rd position is the letter P, and the 4th position is a number - either 2 or 3 for manual or 6 or 7 for automatic. You must have the correct MP number for the application or it will not work in the car. These letters/numbers are centered between those top 2 mounting bolts and they are really are there.

What they look like
Use these for trans.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/dwb6a.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i.imgur.com/vEmqC.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i.imgur.com/vEmqC.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i.imgur.com/vEmqC.jpg[/url]

Year codes
M 1991
N 1992
P 1993
R 1994
S 1995
T 1996
V 1997
W 1998
X 1999
Y 2000
1 2001
2 2002

There are initial start, oil prime, first oil change info as well you will need. With a new drained trans use Amsoil Torque-Drive for first fill. The Torque-Drive is a lifetime fluid that will only require a periodic filter change.

The flaws of the 96-99 vintage are known and easily corrected. The 00-02 have more electrical-electronic issues that are not user fixable easily if at all. There is noting radically wrong with earlier models other than general age and rust.

Space_Suitor 04-19-2018 03:18 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
That's some fancy shootin' you got there, Mister. :arr:

Space_Suitor 05-08-2018 08:49 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
I I have located a transmission via FB marketplace, which I intend to pony up some cash for, tonight.

The owner says it came from family car that his teens drove and then totaled, 2002 Sc2 with 147k. Posted for $300 but he says he'll let it go for $100.

**

Not sure if I have asked this before, but I happened to score a completely rebuilt, clean CYLINDER HEAD which fits the S-series, but sadly it is only a SINGLE cam, and I'm not quite sure what to do with it. I wonder if any shops would have an interest in trading me for one that fits?...

Space_Suitor 05-12-2018 10:29 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
1 Attachment(s)
Alrig grrr t, so I bought the trans for $100.

Then yesterday I rented a cherry picker and finally yanked the old motor+tranny out, no help.

I have a shopping cart started on RockAuto.com with some of the final parts I will need.., just asking for a little help before I cash out.

Main line of inquiry has to do with axle seals. I'll get one for Left and for Right, and I am also asking for the seal at torque converter. But I can't seem to tell what I need to use at the carrier bearing. Do I simply need 2 right-hand side seals?

4613N (left) ,
4614N (right),
4615V (torque)

OldNuc 05-12-2018 02:20 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
Are you asking about the intermediate shaft?

Intermediate shaft left hand side has a slinger ring and no seal. There is a specific OEM seal or National 4614N available for the right hand intermediate shaft seal if required. There is an OEM kit that might still be available but it is just the 4614N seal and CV grease.

The bearing is an NSK 6206DP8. This is a generic 6206 bearing that is double sealed and lubed for life. Placing some CV joint grease into the right hand side of the intermediate shaft area before inserting the CV joint Will provide some lubrication to this bearing long term.

It is all pressed together so when assembling do not transfer installing force across the bearing balls.

[url]http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1945839#post1945839[/url]

Space_Suitor 05-14-2018 03:32 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
Thanks for that confirmation.

I spent today swapping out most of the accessories to the final build, cleaning stuff up as best as I could along the way.

Once I got the head off I could see there's an exhaust valve with a chip taken out of it. THIS WOULD EXPLAIN SOME THINGS.

Got the camshafts out and had a look at the lifters. In total, I have 6 of them whose movement leaves something to be desired. QUESTION: Is there any chance that a nice soak in Berryman's would bring one of those things back to life? Or shall I not even bother? I know they are only about 6 bucks a pop but I am anxious to save a few bucks for all that I've wasted so far.

I have not yet un-seated any of the valves for closer inspection but I suppose getting that apart will be the midway point of the project.

A COMPARATIVE SIDE -NOTE; Don't bother wasting your money on "Mean Green" cleaner, didn't do squat. However, I did have good luck cutting the oily mess with LA'S AWESOME CLEANER, yellow stuff for a buck! Tomorrow I will get some vinegar, hoping to soak the rust off that exhaust manifold.

OldNuc 05-14-2018 08:00 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
The 98 and older lifters canbe disassembled and cleaned. One way to do it: [url]http://www.differentracing.com/tech_articles/lifter.html[/url]

Space_Suitor 05-14-2018 04:18 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
That is great to know!

I am hesitant to go through allllll that. I can't imagine getting all those apart without scratching the hell out most of them.

Speaking of destroying stuff, I sure am having a dilly of a time getting loose one of those bolts at the bellhosing where the accessories get grounded. Rounded off, of course. WD-40 and a torch haven't helped. Even whacked it with a chisel but it just won't spin. No good, since I need to salvage the flywheel. Probably going to just have to whack the nut off, eh?

Giggity-gig.

Space_Suitor 05-22-2018 03:18 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
I have been working on my project every day and I am making progress in great strides. What with a successful valve job, and a near-complete assembly of the head which will allow me to put the last few components on the block; namely set timing, oil pan gasket, drop her in and FFFFF!RRRRE UUUUUUUP!

Ended up locally-sourcing some 6 more exhaust valves, because none of them really cleaned up well and I had only ordered 2 new ones. They ended up matching my new ones better as they were flat-head instead of dish-type. (Not sure what practical difference is made.)

I managed to get the valve springs apart by whacking them with a deadblow and deep socket. In the end, they went back together the same way, but using a slightly smaller (maybe 17 & 15mm's?) socket while placing a 2/3 layer piece of duct tape between socket and spring ass'y and a dab o' grease inside the keeper-s hole. (Changing the tape often, and making sure to re-position a rag underhead as I moved to each combustion chamber.

[[This , after much futzing, putzing, whining and crying, phone calls, Googling, and also a free-rental of an $86-deposit C-clamp tool that JUUUUUST couldn't hook it.]]

So yes Futurebuilders: CHEAPEST way to re-install valve keepers on DOHC recessed bore is the folded plastic + socket trick. SMACK IT LIKE YOU MEAN IT! :yes: :x

IN OTHER NEWS, Once I got the bellhousing cracked apart, I found that the flywheel teeth are all burred up and I reckon I will have to go around and hit them with the Dremel. Still, I suppose that is a more likely method than yanking another one at the junkyard. :eek:

Soon, I will strip my old motorblock and trans, clean them up at the carwash and make my fortune back selling them for scrap. :arr:

Space_Suitor 12-17-2018 04:45 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
My garage got overrun by clutter as I spent much of the summer camped out of a tent, doin' d*//rugs and building stages for concert festivals and shining spotlights on the likes of famous folks like Fleetwood Mac, Def Lep + Journey, Clint Black, Brad Paisley and Kid Rock, Jay Z & Beyonce. :yes::cool: Y'know..., what old folks used to call "WORK"! :usa::cake:

At one point I rolled the chassis out to the street so I could tidy out the garage; the city noticed a bunch of junkers on my street and snatched my wagon before I could roll it back in. So went another $300 to get it back :us: :stoplight: DO NOT PASS GO.

So now I, the basket case have returned, and I am mighty anxious to have this project completed.

I once had high hopes of detain cleaning the engine bay, painting the block, swapping out the plastic loom sheaths for new, blue ones.

NOW? i'll just be happy if the thing doesn't catch fire in my face!

More to come I guess...

alordofchaos 12-17-2018 10:30 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
You live an interesting life :)

City did not give any warning before they towed? they suck.

Space_Suitor 12-17-2018 11:45 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
The city gave 24 hour notice. I thought "Surely I can squeeze 3 days outta this", but it was gone by the second day because they just farm their list of offenders out to a tow company. The fellow bragged how many cars they got from my 'hood that weekend.

I have no illisions that half of my problems are half my own fault. :blockhead: :sleep:

That said, I'm looking forward to a junkyard trip tomorrow, so I can eyeball some parts for placement and routing I've forgotten. :zzz:

Jim@HiTek 12-17-2018 02:12 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
One of my neighbors called about a junker I had sitting on the street in front of my house and they gave me a week to move it. 24 hours would have been difficult.

I was able to push it on my driveway. They can't touch it if it's on private property.

alordofchaos 12-17-2018 02:33 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
[QUOTE=Space_Suitor;2288423]
I have no illisions that half of my problems are half my own fault. :blockhead: :sleep:[/QUOTE] lol, that's fair :D

[QUOTE]The city gave 24 hour notice. I thought "Surely I can squeeze 3 days outta this", but it was gone by the second day because they just farm their list of offenders out to a tow company. The fellow bragged how many cars they got from my 'hood that weekend.[/QUOTE] probably would have been safe for the 3 days if it was city workers. They are probably busy with other crap and have no [I]personal [/I]incentive to rush.

But the private tow company makes money by grabbing your car. $300 and it probably took them no more than a half hour to tow the car to the impound lot and come back.

Space_Suitor 12-17-2018 09:06 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
The property manager for my apartments is even more strict than the cops! :upset:

Well, it was sitting out there with expired plate from out of state, stuffed with clothes, sans-motor & tranny, for at least 2 weeks. Lots of car-dwellers in this neck of the woods, so it's anybody's guess.

That didn't stop me from giving hell to several people on the telephone AND at the police station AND city hall and THEN at the police station again before I forked over $100 for the police to release it. *LITERAL HIGHWAY ROBBERY*. :x

I didn't have the cash, and had gone to bed that night trying to make peace with the fact I had just lost the $300 set of tires I finally paid off. But that would leave me with the useless rest of the project into which I had sunk so much money and time, effort. In the morning I woke knowing the only way I could materialize instant cash in my hands,,, so the result of this was me pawn-shopping several of my musical electronics [Ended losing 1 piece and buying back other 2 for $243] I still have another guitar on hold which I need to retrieve ASAP, because paying rent over a thousand bucks sucks ass. :redface:

I confess all of this because I feel like there's a lesson buried somewhere.
And also I'm stalling, because my photos are too big for upload! :drool:

Space_Suitor 12-20-2018 07:37 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
1 Attachment(s)
Holy heck, I've rented a cherrypicker.

Am I fixing to drop this thing in all by myself or what?? :xeye:

Space_Suitor 12-24-2018 10:53 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
4 Attachment(s)
Uh, yup.

I had to beg my lady to hold the motor still as it hung from the chain and I muscled the tranny into position, but it's usually a challenge getting her to even hold a flashlight, so......that's the most help I've had on this project, excepting for the Machinist and y'all who's given me advice here.

It helps to have a crowbar. :banana:

I took an extra day with the hoist because I decided I'd probably regret doing this work and not putting SOME artistic touch into it with new wire shieldings to match the exhaust and the blue spark wires.

I cleaned all my connectors with a spray by CRC and everything looks neat and tidy. I also had to splice in a new connector for the transmission harness; soldering has never been my forte but splicing butt connectors is even worse so I took my sweet old time achieving near-perfection here, with a nice coating of liquid e-tape before I bundled it all up.

Waiting now for a few final parts to arrive from Rock Auto while I re-connect the electronics and suspension components.

Very few turds have been polished this hard and survived to talk about it.

So...what kind of eggnog are y'all sippin'? :merry:

alordofchaos 12-24-2018 11:09 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
I knew we forgot something when my wife dragged me out shopping. No eggnog in the house :(

Nice progress on the car! And great pics.

Engine is from a '99-02? Looks like narrow head, and you have that coffee-can "pre-cat" on the exhaust (nice shade of blue :))

Space_Suitor 12-24-2018 08:03 PM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
Chaos,

I'm not certain what year the block is, as it was not the original and rode home in the trunk as part of the deal from the last owner. I honestly didn't think there was much noticable difference between years in that regard, although I have noticed some variations on other systems hiking around Pick-n-Pull.

But yes, it's the original '98 head and headers on a rebuilt replacement block of unknown origin.

I forget what year the fellow said the transmission was, and I still can't believe he let it go for $100. :dizzy:

Space_Suitor 12-27-2018 01:26 AM

Re: Spaceman's BYOB-DOHC Rebuild Partythread
 
Project Recap:

Cylinders bored
New pistons, rings, bearings
Timing kit
Oil pump
Water pump & thermostat
Head gasket & bolts
Intake & Exhaust, EGR & throttle gaskets
Belt & tensioner & Idler pulley
Repair damage to p.steering pulley, c.shaft pulley, flywheel
Replace wiring harness conduit shieldingpark plugs & wires
Ignition control module & coil packs
Idle Air Control Valve
Engine Coolant Temp Sensor
Replace all valves with flat-face type
Replace all lifters
Replace 4 engine/transmission motor mounts
Swap transmission, replace seals & fluid + filter
Replace upper & lower radiator hoses; Flush heater core
Pennzoil 5/20 conventional oil w/ Motorcraft filter



...IS THAT ALL??


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