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-   -   Epa & Mpg (hwy)??? (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125401)

darnell89 09-08-2008 02:01 AM

Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
Why are all auto-maker making commercials, and adverting EPA of you get ** MPG, and that is only HWY Miles, instead of averaging the City/HWY together? I have never understood that.

Like for example: The 2009 SATURN SKY RL you get 28 MPG, and it's really 19/28, but when average them it doesn't come out to that. What is up with that???

Not everyone drives on the highway!

spencerb 09-08-2008 08:38 AM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
It's simple advertising. Wouldn't you want to advertise the highest number possible (especially when that's what every other car maker advertises)?

My retailer will advertise even higher mpg. I think they have an Astra with "36mpg" on the windshield. I guess someone told them they got 36 for a tank (it wasn't me, I've only gotten to 35).

I noticed that when you look at the prices of Saturns on their web site, they include destination charges. If you look at the prices of Hondas on their web site, they don't include it (it's in the fine print). It makes their cars seem cheaper than they really are at first glance.

AuraDrvr89 09-08-2008 02:19 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=spencerb;1312183]
I noticed that when you look at the prices of Saturns on their web site, they include destination charges. If you look at the prices of Hondas on their web site, they don't include it (it's in the fine print). It makes their cars seem cheaper than they really are at first glance.[/QUOTE]

+1 I just noticed this!

darnell89 09-08-2008 03:56 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=spencerb;1312183]It's simple advertising. Wouldn't you want to advertise the highest number possible (especially when that's what every other car maker advertises)?

My retailer will advertise even higher mpg. I think they have an Astra with "36mpg" on the windshield. I guess someone told them they got 36 for a tank (it wasn't me, I've only gotten to 35).

I noticed that when you look at the prices of Saturns on their web site, they include destination charges. If you look at the prices of Hondas on their web site, they don't include it (it's in the fine print). It makes their cars seem cheaper than they really are at first glance.[/QUOTE]

You know that every company is different, and Honda is just keeping it real to tell how much you are being charged for the destination. How much is SATURN destination charge? Is it more or less than Honda?

bryanm326 09-08-2008 04:02 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=darnell89;1312459]You know that every company is different, and Honda is just keeping it real to tell how much you are being charged for the destination. How much is SATURN destination charge? Is it more or less than Honda?[/QUOTE]


Depends on the model, but they run between $625-735.

FGCA_XRL 09-08-2008 08:35 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
advertisements = lies

Everyone knows this. And if you can't get higher than the EPA ratings there;s something wrong with how you drive or your car. They test them driving like a pissed off teenage girl on her period trying to get tickets to be on MTV. They now test them with the A/C going like crazy, and being heeeeeavy on the gas and brakes.

VTHokie00SL2 09-08-2008 08:50 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=FGCA_XRL;1312609]advertisements = lies

Everyone knows this. And if you can't get higher than the EPA ratings there;s something wrong with how you drive or your car. They test them driving like a pissed off teenage girl on her period trying to get tickets to be on MTV. They now test them with the A/C going like crazy, and being heeeeeavy on the gas and brakes.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I typically get 28 mpg overall in my Legacy, and according to the new ratings, the Legacy's only rated at 27 highway!

Citation84 09-09-2008 07:22 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
I got 32 [2005 EPA] highway ONCE in my 05 ION 1 A. The lowest ever on several long trips. 35-37 is more the average [I have documented every drop of gas that's been pumped since mile 21] and quite easy. Far better than the "re calculated" rate of 29 on the EPA's website. That's mileage I have [B]never [/B] seen on freeway tanks, ever.

City has always been higher, ranging from 25-27 depending of course on time of day, traffic flow, AC usage, etc. "Your mileage will vary", as they say.

The recalculated rates aren't "retested" rates using the new methods but appear to be an across the board 10% cut of all the previous tested #s.

Sival 09-09-2008 09:04 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=darnell89;1312158]Why are all auto-maker making commercials, and adverting EPA of you get ** MPG, and that is only HWY Miles, instead of averaging the City/HWY together? I have never understood that.

Like for example: The 2009 SATURN SKY RL you get 28 MPG, and it's really 19/28, but when average them it doesn't come out to that. What is up with that???

Not everyone drives on the highway![/QUOTE]

They prefer advertising the big number because most people will not pay attention enough to make the difference between combined fuel consumption and highway. So only portraying the combined rating means that your competitors can simply show their highway MPG and thus people will believe that their cars are more economic than yours. If people knew enough to check and if they knew what was really good fuel consumption, advertising would be useless. Also note they tend to use the fuel consumption rating for the most economical model, for instance using the manual version's even if only 5% of the cars will be sold with a manual transmission.

The worst case that I know of is in Canada, ads for the Dodge Caliber. Now the Dodge Caliber has decent MPG in the city (24 or 23, whether manual or CVT), that's actually pretty good considering the weight of the vehicle and it's competitive in the compact class. However, its fuel economy on the highway is horrible, 29 in manual form, a low 27 with the CVT, due to bad aerodynamics and probably badly programmed CVT (look at Nissan for well programmed CVT units). Yet in Canada, they use the fuel economy rating of the manual version for the highway in their ads, despite the facts that:

A- Most versions will probably be issued with the CVT (which has highway fuel consumption rating similar to midsize cars with V6s)
B- Everyone who is shopping and takes a care about fuel consumption will notice that the highway rating for the Caliber is far from good when compared with compacts, and even with midsize cars with 4 cylinders (ads which shows fuel consumption rating for both Caliber and Avenger are particularly funny)
C- The rating that is more of a testament to the fuel economy of the Caliber is the city rating, but they won't publicize it because it's lower than the highway rating

Asterixx 09-09-2008 09:40 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
Canadian advertised fuel economy is also artificially high because we've got bigger gallons. An American gallon is 3.8 liters, an imperial (Canadian) gallon is 4.5 liters. That's almost 20% larger, so you're obviously going to go 20% further. When I worked at the Saturn dealership the S-series were advertised at ~46MPG (right on the window of every car), while US EPA figures were 35MPG.

The funny thing is that gallons are not a legal measurement in Canada. Fuel economy figures are supposed to be posted in liters per 100 km, not MPG. This confuses most people, though - with MPG the higher the number the better, but with L/100KM the lower the number the better. Even though we've been metric for almost four decades most people relate to MPG better - most likely because we see American commercials. This works in the manufacturer's favour in a deceptive way: Say you see a bunch of commercials on Peachtree TV or some other US network, or you see ads and road test in American car magazines for Civics, Fits, Yarises, Focuses (focii?), etc, and they all proudly state that the cars get ~35MPG. You then go to the local Chevy dealer and that Cobalt says 45 MPG on the window sticker. You think "WOW! 10 MPG better than the commercials I saw! And a Government of Canada figure, at that!"

The salesmen don't tell you that it's based on bigger gallons. They also don't tell you that every other vehicle on the road is going to have 20% higher figures than what they saw on TV.

It's all advertising. Just like how you see a new Dodge Ram 1500 4X4 Hemi Club cab advertised at $25k, but the cheapest one at the dealership is $35k. Or how you see a commercial for a car "Starting at $13,995" but the fine print says "Price shown is for base "Econopoopster" model. Tires, steering wheel, transmission, seats, and door hanldes extra. Taxes, destination charges, and dealer fees not included. MSRP for "Super Luxury Hot Rod" model shown is $35,995".

BobbyP 09-09-2008 09:46 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=FGCA_XRL;1312609]advertisements = lies

Everyone knows this. And if you can't get higher than the EPA ratings there;s something wrong with how you drive or your car. They test them driving like a pissed off teenage girl on her period trying to get tickets to be on MTV. They now test them with the A/C going like crazy, and being heeeeeavy on the gas and brakes.[/QUOTE]

The unfortunate fact is you can say anything you want in advertising. Sounds like a politician... :)

Sival 09-09-2008 10:05 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=Asterixx;1313194]Canadian advertised fuel economy is also artificially high because we've got bigger gallons. An American gallon is 3.8 liters, an imperial (Canadian) gallon is 4.5 liters. That's almost 20% larger, so you're obviously going to go 20% further. When I worked at the Saturn dealership the S-series were advertised at ~46MPG (right on the window of every car), while US EPA figures were 35MPG.

The funny thing is that gallons are not a legal measurement in Canada. Fuel economy figures are supposed to be posted in liters per 100 km, not MPG. This confuses most people, though - with MPG the higher the number the better, but with L/100KM the lower the number the better. Even though we've been metric for almost four decades most people relate to MPG better - most likely because we see American commercials. This works in the manufacturer's favour in a deceptive way: Say you see a bunch of commercials on Peachtree TV or some other US network, or you see ads and road test in American car magazines for Civics, Fits, Yarises, Focuses (focii?), etc, and they all proudly state that the cars get ~35MPG. You then go to the local Chevy dealer and that Cobalt says 45 MPG on the window sticker. You think "WOW! 10 MPG better than the commercials I saw! And a Government of Canada figure, at that!"

The salesmen don't tell you that it's based on bigger gallons. They also don't tell you that every other vehicle on the road is going to have 20% higher figures than what they saw on TV.[/QUOTE]

In Québec people understand l/100 km probably better now than MPG (except older people), so that's not a problem. The ad for the Caliber I was talking about used the l/100 km rating, but included in smaller characters the MPG in imperial gallons. It has to be noted also that Canadian test conditions are made to show what a car can obtain if one drives with fuel economy in mind, so they're very optimistic, even more than old EPA ratings. For instance, the new Cobalt XFE is rated 5,4 l/100 km on the highway, meaning 43,5 MPG (US gallons, not imperial), compare that to 37 MPG in American testing.

I guess it can be confusing for Canadians who have one foot in Canada and another in the US through exposures to American TV and all.

Asterixx 09-10-2008 06:37 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=Sival;1313205]I guess it can be confusing for Canadians who have one foot in Canada and another in the US through exposures to American TV and all.[/QUOTE]
...Which would be about 99% of English Canada. That's one thing you french guys are lucky for: Canadian content actually means something to you. In the rest of Canada, Canadian Content means a local Chevy dealership commercial during an episode of Family Guy.

Incidentally, I saw a commercial yesterday advertising the 4-cyl Malibu at [B]48[/B] MPG. How deceptive is that???

Sival 09-11-2008 09:15 PM

Re: Epa & Mpg (hwy)???
 
[QUOTE=Asterixx;1313687]...Which would be about 99% of English Canada. That's one thing you french guys are lucky for: Canadian content actually means something to you. In the rest of Canada, Canadian Content means a local Chevy dealership commercial during an episode of Family Guy.

Incidentally, I saw a commercial yesterday advertising the 4-cyl Malibu at [B]48[/B] MPG. How deceptive is that???[/QUOTE]

Well... Québécois content means something to me at least...

As to the 48 MPG, divide by 1.2, 40 MPG (US), meaning about 5.9 l/100 Km. That's what the 2009 Cobalt automatic gets on the highway in Canadian ratings, and in EPA terms, its highway fuel economy is the same as the Malibu 4 cyl with 6-speed (33 MPG), so that's possible. I think I've seen an ad in English promoting the Pontiac G6 at 5.9 l/100km too.


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