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-   -   Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial? (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145203)

AEIoUy 10-03-2009 04:20 PM

Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
Poll coming.

unit731 10-03-2009 05:17 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
The economy.

adventureoflink 10-03-2009 05:47 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
Tie... I'd say GM, UAW, and to an extent the media personally.

MiSaturn 10-03-2009 05:53 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
GM may be too general an answer. The source of most of GM's current issues was Roger Smith.

MiSaturn 10-03-2009 05:58 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=adventureoflink;1523697]Tie... I'd say GM, UAW, and to an extent the media personally.[/QUOTE]

While the UAW may be to blame for the American auto industry's problems as a whole, I take exception that they put Saturn at a greater disadvantage (at least to other American manufacturers).

I thank the UAW workers who built my Saturn every day I start it up (with 150,000 miles) and it runs perfectly, getting 40mpg. Americans are still some of the best and most productive autoworkers anywhere in the world - just ask Honda, Nissan, Subaru, Mercedes, BMW, etc.

daver 10-03-2009 06:35 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
You need another choice called "It doesn't matter".

VTHokie00SL2 10-03-2009 11:08 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
I blame myself.

piney 10-03-2009 11:43 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=VTHokie00SL2;1523829]I blame myself.[/QUOTE]

I was just going to post that it was your fault when I saw this thread. Thought to myself,[I] "If Hokie didn't harp on the polymer panels so much, Saturn would still be around."
[/I]
Thanks a lot Hokie, 13,000 jobs and over 400 dealerships down the drain thanks to your infatuation with rubber things. ;)

Chazberry 10-04-2009 10:04 AM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=MiSaturn;1523706]While the UAW may be to blame for the American auto industry's problems as a whole, I take exception that they put Saturn at a greater disadvantage (at least to other American manufacturers).
[/QUOTE]

This is true, but the fundamental problem is the fact that they put American manufacturers at a disadvantage to the foreign manufacturers. I initially thought GM management and the UAW should share the blame for the Company's problems. But now I'm thinking, isn't it management that ultimately gives in to the Union demands? And isn't it a management failure for not anticipating what legacy pension and benefit costs would mean down the road? As for Saturn, I think there was a failure in marketing. I think a lot of people still equated plastic bodies with "cheap", and that it probably compromised safety - both misconceptions. Going away from "a different kind of car" philosophy in favor of "rebadging" certainly doomed the division. For more recent blame, I think the brand was seriously tarnished by the VTi debacle. The VUE wheel bearing goof-up didn't help the reliability numbers either. Is Saturn or GM management the blame for these decisions? I'm inclined to give GM management 95% of the blame.

daver 10-04-2009 03:43 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=piney;1523843]I was just going to post that it was your fault when I saw this thread. Thought to myself,[I] "If Hokie didn't harp on the polymer panels so much, Saturn would still be around."
[/I]
Thanks a lot Hokie, 13,000 jobs and over 400 dealerships down the drain thanks to your infatuation with rubber things. ;)[/QUOTE]


I agree, and I think we should all get together and go ring his doorbell and run. C'mon, who's with me?!?!

mike08vue 10-04-2009 06:50 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
Gm is the biggest reason Saturn died. I can't firgure out why in the world would GM invest so much and then starve and strangle Saturn out of existance. Of course, our government hastened the process by intervening and pushing bankruptcy and the pairing of divisions. Of course, the Saturn Dealer Organization kept it alive a little longer--not like Pontiac,that was sacrificed quickly. At least there was something of some value that could be sold--hopefully to Roger Penske. Things looked up for a short time until Renault-Nissan nixed the deal to supply cars on the 11th hour. So evidently the Dealer Organization,Penske, and to a lesser extent,the dedicated Saturn Fan/owner were the only positive things. Too bad it wasn't enough.:no:

mike08vue 10-04-2009 06:57 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=MiSaturn;1523702]GM may be too general an answer. The source of most of GM's current issues was Roger Smith.[/QUOTE]

Wasn't it Roger Smith that started the Saturn company as GM's answer to the imported car influx? Didn't Saturn fall under GM's divisional umbrella under Smith's successor?

L100 10-04-2009 07:55 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=MiSaturn;1523702]GM may be too general an answer. The source of most of GM's current issues was Roger Smith.[/QUOTE]
]

He helped begin the Saturn brand.

ricksLS1 10-04-2009 08:10 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
I read an editorial in the WSJ and the person pretty well summed it up:

GM - Starved Saturn by not giving it the needed funds.

UAW - When a new UAW president (The name escapes me I believe it started with a Y) came on board he was a no nonsese union guy. He helped scap the unique Saturn - UAW contact and also pushed GM to use Wilmington to build the L.

bobfather99 10-04-2009 08:37 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
GM itself holds most of the blame, for basically "giving up" on Saturn financially.


Personally I think if GM built a new version of the S-series with the quirks worked out, theyd sell well. A US built plastic bodied car that gets 40MPG for < $12k would help GM pay off the taxpayers' "loan" quicker, IMO.

piney 10-04-2009 09:17 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=bobfather99;1524174]Personally I think if GM built a new version of the S-series with the quirks worked out, theyd sell well. A US built plastic bodied car that gets 40MPG for < $12k would help GM pay off the taxpayers' "loan" quicker, IMO.[/QUOTE]

My 1991 SL2 with a 5 speed, nice stereo, spiral rims, cruise, power windows/locks was $13,100 in June of 1991. It'd be tough to make one 20 years later for a grand less. :clock:

2NDSOUT 10-05-2009 09:25 AM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=MiSaturn;1523702]GM may be too general an answer. The source of most of GM's current issues was Roger Smith.[/QUOTE]

How can you blame Roger Smith? He was the founding father of Saturn.

Ol' Fritzy Boy, Rick Wagoner, and Bob Lutz never liked Saturn from day 1. After Roger Smith passed away; and GM continued it's downward spiral, it seems to me that it has been more of a thing that the crew at GM was seeing how long they starve Saturn before it finally died.

GM, and Renault/Nissan can suck it for all I care. Poor business decisions don't make for a well run company. :hmpf:

GM's continued downward spiral will continue. Just watch...it's coming.

The facade has worked so far, but poor business decisions over the past 15+ years are slowly catching up to GM.

daver 10-05-2009 12:02 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=2NDSOUT;1524412]How can you blame Roger Smith? He was the founding father of Saturn.[/QUOTE]


I guess you can use the logic that if Saturn never existed, it never would have died. :dizzy:

Sweepspear 10-05-2009 12:07 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
GM for dropping the ball early on and letting it wither on the vine by starving it of money.

bobfather99 10-05-2009 06:30 PM

Re: Who do you blame mostly for Saturn's burial?
 
[QUOTE=piney;1524194]My 1991 SL2 with a 5 speed, nice stereo, spiral rims, cruise, power windows/locks was $13,100 in June of 1991. It'd be tough to make one 20 years later for a grand less. :clock:[/QUOTE]

Youre right, my bad on the price.... ;)


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