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-   -   First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=211993)

JBushman 12-07-2015 11:09 AM

First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
Am following Oldnuc's instructions for first start after rebuild my 1994 SL SOHC VIN 9.

Went through the process carefully and got to the point of turning on the engine. It fired for just a few seconds then died. Waited a bit then primed it again and tried to turn it on. Fired for a bit longer. Probably less than 10 seconds then died. Tried priming and starting several times. Didn't work.

I have new copper plugs, new wires and cleaned the contacts between block and ignition coils and between the base late of the coil pack and the two separate tower parts of the coil.

I suspect I flooded it???

Will pull the plugs tonight and see if I smell fuel. If so I will squirt in some oil in each cylinder and try again. At that point should I prime again before trying to start?

Also the CPS has been replaced with a new one so its not likely to be that.

Thoughts??

fdryer 12-07-2015 01:44 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
What parts were replaced during the rebuild? You have at least three well worn parts, a fuel pump, fuel filter and catalytic converter unless they were replaced too? If not, what's fuel pressure?

fetchitfido 12-07-2015 01:52 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
IMO this is one time where OldNuc's guide is wishful thinking. Hold the pedal to the floor to get it to start, then release it and play with it for a few seconds to keep the engine running. Should be fine within 20 seconds.

With all the DOHC engines I've swapped out not one has had a perfect, happy, "TV Start" on the first try. I suspect the "TV Start" is the result of tons of try's, tweaking this & that and finding forgotten items off-screen first.


Then again I've changed nearly as many EJ25's and they just vroom-start once the fuel system is primed :/

OldNuc 12-07-2015 02:00 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
It will never start with a bad ground and that hillbilly wide open start burns the rings and ruins a perfectly good rebuild. These are NOT cast iron rings and it makes a big difference.

OldNuc 12-07-2015 02:01 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
Go read his OTHER thread before engaging in random guessing. ;)

fetchitfido 12-07-2015 02:28 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
[QUOTE=OldNuc;2170232]Go read his OTHER thread before engaging in random guessing. ;)[/QUOTE]

Uh...
[QUOTE=JBushman;2170201]Hey all - it was a loose bolt connecting my negative terminal. Got new bolt this am and it worked.

Thanks for the help!![/QUOTE]
Was at 12-07-2015, 09:42 AM , had the ground problem fixed. This thread was made 20min later at 12-07-2015 10:09 AM, new problem = new thread.

Go back to your good ol' carb if "clear flood mode" is a hillbilly fix for flooding an EFI system.

JBushman 12-07-2015 02:39 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
Fuel filter and catalytic converter were replaced. Also replaced the oil pressure sensor, knock sensor, CPS, the idle air control on the throttle body and the throttle position sensor. Also used a throttle body rebuild kit. The injector is the same though. And replaced the O2 sensor, though I doubt that has anything to do with this. And the engine temp sensor is the brass version, as is the air temp sensor and the engine temp sender.

Didn't replace the fuel pump and haven't measure fuel pressure. Will have to look into that. Any good videos on how to check fuel pressure?

I assume that I flooded it. If I did, what's the process for rectifying that?

I tried starting it this morning and it is sitting all day while I'm at work. I'm going to pull the plugs to see if I smell gas and if so put in a squirt or two of oil and try again.

Is that a good idea? If I do that, do I need to prime it by turning the key to on to let the fuel pump run before actually trying to start it? And if so, should I turn that pump on 2-3 times before attempting the start?

I had a problem with the battery earlier, but it was about not having a good connection with the negative terminal. I replaced the bolts that hold the cables to the battery and I'm good. But the battery is weak. 11.75v and about 230CCA. So I had to jump it to my other vehicle while I was attempting the start to give the starter enough juice to crank the engine. I have checked the ground from the negative cable to the block and to the chassis and they're both tight and clean. Also the ground wires that are in the back of the engine are tight and clean too. Checked those as I was reinstalling the harness.

Thanks for all the help guys.

fdryer 12-07-2015 03:54 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
That battery is on its way out if you're in cold country. Either the battery needs a full charge to allow normal use or bring it to your favorite auto store for testing to see if it needs a full charge, still in good condition or replacement. As long as it can power the starter, keep it. A sluggish starter is either a worn out starter or battery.

You already know the two methods to a flooded engine start; either floor the pedal during starting (shuts off injectors) or remove plugs for examination to see if the plugs are soaked in fuel and if so, leave plugs out and start the engine to blow out excess fuel before replacing dried plugs for another start. If plugs are removed, a spark test wouldn't hurt to be sure spark is working.

The other symptom of failed starts may be lack of fuel so spraying starting fluid into the throttle body (presuming spark is good) should get the engine to fire up.

Cycling ignition on and off several times does only one thing; prime the fuel lines with pressure. Nothing more. I'm not sure whether your '94 has a fuel test valve on the fuel rail or on the line to the injectors. Look for it as fuel test valves resembles a large tire valve. If no fuel test valve exists, you'll have to do it the old school way; separate the fuel line somewhere to fit a 'T' fitting in allow a fuel pressure gauge connection.

OldNuc 12-07-2015 10:09 PM

Re: First start after rebuild - fired for a few seconds only
 
You need to stop and actually find out why it will not stay running. If it is flooding out you will end up with an oil burning engine and spraying starting fluid is not going to do any good either.

STOP and actually figure out exactly why it will not stay running. It is very easy to completely destroy your rebuild work by applying these recommended "fixes". The usual cause will be a disconnected sensor, pinched injector ground wire, or vacuum line off or cracked.


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