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-   -   Rotella T Engine Oil.... (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101139)

97coupe 06-11-2007 07:23 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=oseberg;1073643]Are you sure your friends engins were ruined by not changing oil, or were they ruined by running out of oil?.[/QUOTE]

When oil gets dirty enough it starts to bypass filter and then is can become almost like liquid sand paper given enough time




[QUOTE=oseberg;1073643]
I've seen the insides of an engine that ran out of oil, and that changed by beliefs about what happens when an engine runs out of oil. Nothing actually, "wore out". What happened was that the bearings overheaded and melted.
.[/QUOTE]

They melted because the oil film failed and friction set in which causes wear and heat from this friction. Oil does two thing for a engine bearings. First it floats the journals in a film film/layer that prevents metal to metal contact and it cools the bearings as well. This is why bearings are the first thing to good generally with loss of oil pressure. Many do not realize that engine oil temp in bearing can be a lot hotter than the engine block temperature best even oil heats up some from shearing in bearings which causes friction between oil molecules.

Jim Dunlop 06-11-2007 07:40 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=97coupe;1073490]I am not so sure that droplets like that is a sign of a good oil. It tends to suggest is has a high surface tension and does not easily coat some surfaces. I like the see a oil the will coat everything well.[/QUOTE]

I believe the reason the droplets spin around in the funnel like that is because certain surfactant portions of the mixture have crept around the surface of the funnel and coated it, like they are supposed to do to the wetted surfaces of the engine. The oil coalesces to itself in a droplet in the funnel (or in a layer in the engine). These layers of metal - surfactant - oil - surfactant - metal slide past each other with very little friction. This is one of the principles of synthetic oil.

[url]http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whyrpa.html[/url]

The above link is from their website. Obviously independent tests are preferable, and they have an independent test summary page.

One of their biggest claims is higher film strength which increases HP by reducing blow-by.

Also, my engine seems to be running smoother now, but I can't objectively separate the variables since I started adding 3.5 oz of acetone per fill-up (increases octane rating) at the same time I switched to Royal Purple.

I'm all about making the engine run as smoothly as possible, since vibration is a significant failure mode for many automotive parts.

97coupe 06-11-2007 10:32 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=Jim Dunlop;1073709]I believe the reason the droplets spin around in the funnel like that is because certain surfactant portions of the mixture have crept around the surface of the funnel and coated it, like they are supposed to do to the wetted surfaces of the engine. The oil coalesces to itself in a droplet in the funnel (or in a layer in the engine). These layers of metal - surfactant - oil - surfactant - metal slide past each other with very little friction. This is one of the principles of synthetic oil.

[url]http://www.royalpurple.com/techa/whyrpa.html[/url]

The above link is from their website. Obviously independent tests are preferable, and they have an independent test summary page.

One of their biggest claims is higher film strength which increases HP by reducing blow-by.

Also, my engine seems to be running smoother now, but I can't objectively separate the variables since I started adding 3.5 oz of acetone per fill-up (increases octane rating) at the same time I switched to Royal Purple.

I'm all about making the engine run as smoothly as possible, since vibration is a significant failure mode for many automotive parts.[/QUOTE]

I fully understand what you are trying to say and it has some merit for sure it is just that I have "issues" with this effect because it suggest a very high surface tension (surface tension is what holds a bead together) which makes me question its flowing coating ability in some scenarios independent of the friction lube properties of oil itself when between to surfaces. Just "my" feelings on it anyway.

BarnOwl 06-11-2007 10:37 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
I've been using Rotella T 5W-40 in my Saturns for a while now. So far, the 2000 is using no oil and the '98 uses about 1/2 quart between changes. That's good enough for me but, I don't live in a cold climate either.

97coupe 06-11-2007 11:35 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=BarnOwl;1073812]I've been using Rotella T 5W-40 in my Saturns for a while now. So far, the 2000 is using no oil and the '98 uses about 1/2 quart between changes. That's good enough for me but, I don't live in a cold climate either.[/QUOTE]

For what it is worth you are losing a bit of MPG potential unless it is maybe 100 plus where you are at because the 40 weight flow rate at higher temp in a small engine consumes more power shearing it. You are not gaining anything here really MPG wise even though the "5W" part may make you think so. I doubt that you will find the energy conserving rating on the API label either.

oseberg 06-11-2007 08:09 PM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=97coupe;1073701]When oil gets dirty enough it starts to bypass filter and then is can become almost like liquid sand paper given enough time[/QUOTE]

I can't believe that dirty oil would activate some sort of filter bypass. I can believe that a clogged filter could activate some sort of filter bypass if the filter or engine were designed that way. I mean, it's probably better for your engine to send gritty oil through it than no oil, regardless of how gritty that oil is. (Since no oil guarantees failure, whereas gritty oil only guarantees wear and tear.)

I would think that it would be pretty smart to add a bypass indicator that'll light up your oil pressure light telling you that your filter is clogged.

I experienced the engine with the clogged oil filter that was loosing oil pressure every time you revved the engine, and regaining it when you stopped and restarted the engine. This experience is contrary to the oil bypass theory, because if there was an oil bypass on this vehicle or in this filter, the oil pressure would not have dropped when the filter was clogged. But then, this was over 20 years ago, so things could have changed since then.

97coupe 06-11-2007 08:25 PM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=oseberg;1074196]I can't believe that dirty oil would activate some sort of filter bypass. I can believe that a clogged filter could activate some sort of filter bypass if the filter or engine were designed that way. I mean, it's probably better for your engine to send gritty oil through it than no oil, regardless of how gritty that oil is. (Since no oil guarantees failure, whereas gritty oil only guarantees wear and tear.)[/QUOTE]

If the oil is dirty it will plug the filter up eventually as it has limited capacity and once full/clogged it will go into bypass or stoppage of flow.

[QUOTE=oseberg;1074196]
I would think that it would be pretty smart to add a bypass indicator that'll light up your oil pressure light telling you that your filter is clogged.[/QUOTE]

I agree, this would be a good idea but it would have to work on a pressure differential and when oil is cold and thick it would not flow through filter as well and this could cause a differentail sensor to trip unless you disabled it when it was cold but then that would be one more thing to go wrong too and worry owner.

[QUOTE=oseberg;1074196]
I experienced the engine with the clogged oil filter that was loosing oil pressure every time you revved the engine, and regaining it when you stopped and restarted the engine. This experience is contrary to the oil bypass theory, because if there was an oil bypass on this vehicle or in this filter, the oil pressure would not have dropped when the filter was clogged. But then, this was over 20 years ago, so things could have changed since then.[/QUOTE]


Not all engine bypass filter the same way. Some depend on filter to do it, some do it externally and some do not do it at all.

Jim Dunlop 06-11-2007 08:55 PM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=97coupe;1073809]I fully understand what you are trying to say and it has some merit for sure it is just that I have "issues" with this effect because it suggest a very high surface tension (surface tension is what holds a bead together) which makes me question its flowing coating ability in some scenarios independent of the friction lube properties of oil itself when between to surfaces. Just "my" feelings on it anyway.[/QUOTE]

OK. I see what you're saying...if the oil itself doesn't coat the metal surfaces, then the surfactants better do it pretty effectively.

It is really only the last drop or two that drips out of the bottle that I see "dancing" on the funnel. While the bulk is going down the funnel it adheres to the walls. However, it seems to drain more quickly than Mobil1 5W-30. Very interesting. Or perhaps it's because I switched to RP after the weather became 80, thus reducing the viscosity? Too many variables, as usual! (so many experiments, so little time)

bobfather99 06-12-2007 12:29 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
I have Rotella-T in 10W30 in my Saturn right now.
I can get it locally for $8.29/gallon..
It has great additives(ZDDP) to help keep things clean.

Hopefully anyone thats worried about 15W40 being too thick will try it, as the Rotella add pack is great.

Ive seen it available at several parts stores, and Menards in Indiana for between 8.29 and 9.99/gallon.

Just my 2c

Bob

97coupe 06-12-2007 06:14 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=Jim Dunlop;1074224]OK. I see what you're saying...if the oil itself doesn't coat the metal surfaces, then the surfactants better do it pretty effectively.

It is really only the last drop or two that drips out of the bottle that I see "dancing" on the funnel. While the bulk is going down the funnel it adheres to the walls. However, it seems to drain more quickly than Mobil1 5W-30. Very interesting. Or perhaps it's because I switched to RP after the weather became 80, thus reducing the viscosity? Too many variables, as usual! (so many experiments, so little time)[/QUOTE]

I was at a store yesterday and I saw 10w30 RP on the shelf and I noticed that is was only rated "SL" while Mobile one was rated SM/CF. All other (automotive type not oil made for diesels) SYN oil there was rated SM too and one other brand there was CF too, Valvoline. A SYN car oil with a CF diesel rating is going to have more detergents and dispersants than one just rated SM. I found it a bit curious anyway.

FrozenPilot 06-12-2007 09:36 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
I used to run Rotella T synthetic in my Saturn, now I run Havoline 5w-30, with no appreciable difference in oil consumption, but the engine does seem to have the slightest bit more pep to it, especially cold. I was unable to do the last two oil changes since my fiancee had the car with her away from home, and had to add oil between changes (i think Pennzoil and Valvoline were used). Its unscientific, but I think Havoline is a better bang for my buck.

Signmaster 06-12-2007 11:10 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=Jim Dunlop;1074224]**Chop**

However, it seems to drain more quickly than Mobil1 5W-30. Very interesting. Or perhaps it's because I switched to RP after the weather became 80, thus reducing the viscosity? Too many variables, as usual! (so many experiments, so little time)[/QUOTE]

I think that in the interest of having better information, this theory should be tested.

Send me a couple cases each of the Mobil 1 and Royal Purple, and I'll do more in depth testing. Of course you'll be the first to get the results. :eek:

Jim Dunlop 06-12-2007 10:08 PM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
LOL! That's be $250 plus tax, shipping, and "fees".

gm7 06-13-2007 03:49 PM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
Thanks guys.
Sounds like the only downside is the 10 more pts of viscosity of the 5-40W at hot with the Rotella T which is bit harder for the little 1.9 to shear. Will likely stick with Mobil1 as I have had great success with it. Have to say my SC2 runs very well...have been pleased with this car as my daily driver. The motor isn't strong by any means but runs flawlessly and fun to drive. I love the simplicity of the SC2.
Thanks again,
George

S-forever 08-22-2019 03:19 PM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
[QUOTE=gm7;1075561]Thanks guys.
Sounds like the only downside is the 10 more pts of viscosity of the 5-40W at hot with the Rotella T which is bit harder for the little 1.9 to shear. Will likely stick with Mobil1 as I have had great success with it. Have to say my SC2 runs very well...have been pleased with this car as my daily driver. The motor isn't strong by any means but runs flawlessly and fun to drive. I love the simplicity of the SC2.
Thanks again,
George[/QUOTE]

Over several high mileage S-series, I've had no problems at all with Walmart 15-40 fleet diesel rated oil except in winter. No cars failed from lack of lubricity and I'm still driving one of them. 15-40 is too thick for a cold winter, but it seems quite fine for the rest of the year in our desert southwest conditions. I never run hard until it's warmed up, but that's only a mile or two with the aluminum block. Then I run fast with a light foot. No city driving. The longer filter helps too.

1996SL11.9L 08-26-2019 10:21 PM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
Ive run the T5 10w30 and the T6 5w40 with no issues. I keep going back to pennzoil platinum or ultra or Motorcraft 5w30.

mattwithcats 08-28-2019 01:08 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
Probably the best deal right now is the Wal-Mart 6 quart full synthetic Havoline Pro DS box...

[url]https://www.walmart.com/ip/Havoline-SMART-CHANGE-ProDS-5W-30-Full-Synthetic-Motor-Oil-6-qt/537902742[/url]

Also comes in 10W-30, and in conventional...
[url]https://www.walmart.com/ip/Havoline-SMART-CHANGE-Motor-Oil-5W-30-6qt/504353470[/url]

alordofchaos 08-28-2019 11:01 AM

Re: Rotella T Engine Oil....
 
I hope that [I]a decade later[/I], this information is useful to the OP (who has not signed on since 2015)


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