Wow!!!!

[saturncanuck]

We saw the 2008 VUE in training yesterday.

WOW

It was a loaded XR.

Man, are we gonna sell a lot.

:sneeze:

[Tbonedawg08]

it better be...the increase in price is outrageous!! what ever happened to the pre-vue?

[montrealvue]

I hope the '08 is as good as they say it is. I read a review yesterday on the Holden Captive Maxx (Australia) which is the same more or less as the Vue. The reviewer liked very little about the vehicle. I don't tend to side with reviewers, most are biased IMO. I look forward to seeing it, the pics of the next RL are incredible!

[sspeer]

it better be...the increase in price is outrageous!! what ever happened to the pre-vue?

My impression is that if you usually spec up your vehicles with options, then the price increase since many features are now standard.

[saturncanuck]

My impression is that if you usually spec up your vehicles with options, then the price increase since many features are now standard.

Sure, the 2008 VUE now comes standard with StabiliTrac, 6 airbags and alloy wheels. Thats gotta justify a $1500 price increase right there!!!!

:sneeze:

[SaturnPlanet]

people will buy it if they like the looks of it first. bottom line.

I've driven the 2008 and spent some time around it, I like it much better than the previous versions. but my wife, she doesn't think it looks "cute" anymore:dizzy:

[saturncanuck]

I've driven the 2008 and spent some time around it, I like it much better than the previous versions. but my wife, she doesn't think it looks "cute" anymore:dizzy:

LOL

LMAO

:dizzy:

:sneeze:

:canada:

[slv01sc2]

Is a sunroof available on the 08 Vue? When can we expect to see it in showrooms?

[Ronbo202]

WOW on the price! Let me understand this, the Vue has gotten smaller then the previous model years because of the redesign and because of the introduction of the new larger Outlook model, but yet the price of the once reasonable Vue has been increased to a near-Outlook type price point? I don't get it Saturn. Do you want to sell this vehicle to the masses or not? I suspect that many will pass on this car because of the price. I will not buy one at those prices when for a couple of thousand more, I could get a much larger Outlook.

[SaturnPlanet]

WOW on the price! Let me understand this, the Vue has gotten smaller then the previous model years because of the redesign and because of the introduction of the new larger Outlook model, but yet the price of the once reasonable Vue has been increased to a near-Outlook type price point? I don't get it Saturn. Do you want to sell this vehicle to the masses or not? I suspect that many will pass on this car because of the price. I will not buy one at those prices when for a couple of thousand more, I could get a much larger Outlook.

the reasons behind the price increases have been discussed ad nauseam. I suggest reading through the threads to find out why.

[junie]

The previous Vue was old architecture. The '08 is all new, based on European Opel design, new engines, suspension, driving attributes, drivelines, safety features and on and on and on. The people that keep thinking for some reason the '07 is some how better than what the '08 will be (without even driving one, amazingly enough) should go out and stock pile them. The '08 will be far superior to the obsolete, bad styled, outdated '07 Vue. Give me the AWD , XR Silver with the 3.6L VVT DOHC @ 250HP and the 6 speed trans. ASAP!

[DesertPuma]

The previous Vue was old architecture. The '08 is all new, based on European Opel design, new engines, suspension, driving attributes, drivelines, safety features and on and on and on. The people that keep thinking for some reason the '07 is some how better than what the '08 will be (without even driving one, amazingly enough) should go out and stock pile them. The '08 will be far superior to the obsolete, bad styled, outdated '07 Vue. Give me the AWD , XR Silver with the 3.6L VVT DOHC @ 250HP and the 6 speed trans. ASAP!

Correction: It's not "based on" the Opel design. It is the Opel design, a rebadge. It is NOT a Saturn, it's ordinary (looks just like a Kia, Mitusbishi, Toyota, and all the other compact SUV's out there), in short it no longer "stands out", and it's ugly (the RL is even worse).

(Sorry K-1, but i still don't like it and never will, I just couldn't resist responding to this particular post :).)

[SaturnPlanet]

Correction: It's not "based on" the Opel design. It is the Opel design, a rebadge. It is NOT a Saturn, it's ordinary (looks just like a Kia, Mitusbishi, Toyota, and all the other compact SUV's out there), in short it no longer "stands out", and it's ugly (the RL is even worse).

(Sorry K-1, but i still don't like it and never will, I just couldn't resist responding to this particular post :).)

congrats on your 1,000th post puma. what percentage of those posts were bashing Saturn!!! (hehe, I couldn't resist ;)

[junie]

Correction: It's not "based on" the Opel design. It is the Opel design, a rebadge. It is NOT a Saturn, it's ordinary (looks just like a Kia, Mitusbishi, Toyota, and all the other compact SUV's out there), in short it no longer "stands out", and it's ugly (the RL is even worse).

(Sorry K-1, but i still don't like it and never will, I just couldn't resist responding to this particular post :).)

Sorry Puma, but I couldn't resist responding to this particular post. Tell me why you think they new Vue is "ugly". In fact and if you weren't seemingly so biased in your dislike and more objective you would have to admit the '08 is modern and sculpted versus the dated '07. And yes it is a Saturn. That said you have an opinion. Its wrong. But its yours, all yours. I think among the buying public you would be in the small minority with it. The new Vue is a great looking new compact SUV. Actually, just by the fact you describe it as ugly (in an attempt to be over-the-top) you will generally loose credibility in most debates on its appearance. You gotta come up with a little more creative description to garner any support for your argument. Otherwise, it just ignored.

[junie]

Man, it sure is "ugly".... riiiight http://blogs.cars.com/photos/2008_saturn_vue_xr/2008saturnvuexr3.html

[06VuePcola]

Man, it sure is "ugly".... riiiight

Yeah, actually it is. Ok, I won't call it ugly because to me ugly is a little harsh. It definitely isn't to my liking though, and SEVERAL people on here feel the same way so he has a right to say it's ugly if he wants. But if you want someone to be descriptive about why they don't like the new vue, here goes...

you would have to admit the '08 is modern and sculpted versus the dated '07

No way!! To me it looks like a kia or hyundai, just too small and rounded for my tastes. The new style looks more like a cross between a station wagon and minivan than a SUV. It doesn't look more modern, just different, and not in a good way IMO.

Sure, the 2008 VUE now comes standard with StabiliTrac, 6 airbags and alloy wheels. Thats gotta justify a $1500 price increase right there!!!!

I do like all of these features that are now standard, but I don't think they shouldn't be standard because it raises the base price far too much. One of the key selling points for many vue owners has been their affordability.

Give me the AWD , XR Silver with the 3.6L VVT DOHC @ 250HP and the 6 speed trans. ASAP!

I am partial to the pre 08' honda engine with 248 hp over the newer 250 hp engine, because #1 it's a honda and that's worth a lot in and of itself, and #2- yeah, it has 2 less hp but the new vue more than makes up for the extra 2hp in the several hundred pounds added weight.

You gotta come up with a little more creative description to garner any support for your argument. Otherwise, it just ignored

I haven't driven an 08 vue yet, so I'll hold off making judgement as to whether or not I dislike it, but I can tell you there's no way I'll like it as much as my 06'. Is that descriptive enough for you? By the way, I've never bashed on here before, just couldn't let some one with similar feelings to what I have get bashed just for expressing them. He has as much of a right to say it's ugly as you do to say it's beautiful.

[BobbyP]

Sorry Puma, but I couldn't resist responding to this particular post. Tell me why you think they new Vue is "ugly". In fact and if you weren't seemingly so biased in your dislike and more objective you would have to admit the '08 is modern and sculpted versus the dated '07. And yes it is a Saturn. That said you have an opinion. Its wrong. But its yours, all yours. I think among the buying public you would be in the small minority with it. The new V
ue is a great looking new compact SUV. Actually, just by the fact you describe it as ugly (in an attempt to be over-the-top) you will generally loose credibility in most debates on its appearance. You gotta come up with a little more creative description to garner any support for your argument. Otherwise, it just ignored.

Junie - SUV or CUV the key word is Utility. The new design took a good part of Utility out of the VUE. Design over function. Fine if you just buy the 2008 VUE to look at, and many people don't feel it's that attractive.

Being an engineer I appreciate the 02-07 VUE's functionality. IMO the 2008 VUE takes a few steps forward and many steps backwards. After I get a chance to drive one and see it personally I'll post a detailed list of what was actually lost, and what was gained.

In 2004 Saturn broke all the rules. They gave us the ultimate VUE by marrying a Saturn polymer body and a Honda power train.

This will be a hard act for the 2008 VUE to follow.

[junie]

And as an insightful engineer what are those steps taken backwards you refer too? Other than a slight loss of cargo space. Ride and handling, structure quality, fit and finish, body and frame rigidity, safety related features, transmission features, engine choices...what would they be?? Oh thats right you will be giving the engineers' professional review after you have driven it (can hardly wait). I doubt anyone would buy it for looks alone. But once seen (and what has been seen) I have to think it is going to look what a next generation model should look like. Attractive, refined and an improvement. It is not a utility vehicle. It is utility in the sense it can perform multiple tasks. Kind of like a utility infielder. You know, can play multiple positions in the infield if called upon. Not utilitarian like a cargo van. By changing its looks for the better it looses its utility? Uh? It was the ultimate Vue? I gotta say the more I read the posts here about the '08 Vue and the reaction to it by some I am beginning to think the old Vue crowd had a very deep and emotional attachment to it and will never accept the '08. They will always harken back to the good old days when a Vue was a Vue. Too bad.

[BobbyP]

The 2008 VUE "should" be safer (the crash data will prove this one), it's a lot heavier now, the 3.6L engine is NOT as economical as the L66 (look at the Aura), the 6 speed auto has taken months of software reprogramming to try to get it shift properly (look at the Aura and Outlook), the only problem with the current engine choices was the 2.2L engine was too small for the current VUE. The 2.4L may be in the same boat with the increased weight. The fit and finish of the current VUE was limited to it's polymer body. The 2008 VUE's steel body will ding and dent like the rest of the automotive world. The whole design of the rear hatch access is all for vanity. Lets call it a SVV, Sports Vanity Vehicle.

The 2008 VUE has a DIC (Digital Information Center), press a little button and scroll through readings. I appreciate the greater information from the DIC, but a temperature gauge in the dash cluster is a necessity. The dash instrumentation is now appropriate for a "grocery go getter".

The styling is a total ZERO. If VUE owners wanted a Hyundai or KIA, they should buy one. Everyone in the car industry knows that MOST people buy cars on how they look first...

Poor chassis re-engineering caused the sunroof option not to be available. They say it's been forsaken to stiffen the chassis... The competition doesn't have this problem...

Oh you can buy preheated washers, look at the "Star Wars" parking brake design and you can see where all the money went for the upgrade. Look at the cup holders, ON THE FLOOR! Look at the glove box, the handle is in the center of the door for looks, not toward the driver to make it accessible.

Hello.... It is a Sports Utility Vehicle... Keyword again, Utility, and the 2008 has less of it.

Why would anyone want to justify a redesign that is heavier, less useful, smaller, looks like the poorer selling competition? In many ways the 2008 VUE will be less competitive that the one it's replacing. Hopefully it will be safer...

GM should have rebadged the Torrent/Equinox chassis and not going through the trouble opening the Mexican factory. Do a google search about this factory and read about the "bang up" job they did building the Aztec and Rendezvous. Read the message about the razor blades in the door panels...

Junie you must have you neck on the line hoping "it" sells... I predict lower sales than the Aura.

The 2008 VUE lost everything that made it unique. It now has a metal body, built in Mexico, has a less efficient V6 engine, abandoned all the Saturn employees at Spring Hill that cared more about their car and company.

[Charlie]

Poor chassis re-engineering caused the sunroof option not to be available. They say it's been forsaken to stiffen the chassis... The competition doesn't have this problem...

I know you're not a fan of the '08 Vue, but please don't spread false information. I too was skeptical after seeing pictures of the new model, but I've recently had the opportunity to spend some time in, out, and on the road with a new XE and XR (I'll have my story posted later tonight). Bottom line, its a lot nicer than the current generation. There's a little less room in the back by the rear window, but for most folks this will have no impact on the utility of the vehicle. Without a tape measure to verify, the cargo floor looks a lot deeper and capable of holding a lot more items... which I think is what most people look for. Pictures don't do the Vue justice. I really like the styling in person. Don't get me wrong, I love the boxy styling of my '05 Vue RL, but the new shape wouldn't stop me from buying another... the dark blue XR model looks especially nice.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/12761/thumbs/06-brandadv-271-vue.jpg (http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=41166)

Back to the sunroof issue. This subject has come up on here before, and just so that we don't continue perpetuate bad information (I'm not sure where it started), I wanted to chime in to set the record straight. The lack of a sunroof at the start of production has nothing to do with the chassis structure of the car. I spoke with the Vue product manager a couple of weeks ago in Detroit about this particular issue and was told that its related to a manufacturing limitation at the plant that will be lifted later in the production run. I countered his response with a question about the chassis concerns that have been posted here, and I was assured that its not the case. The new Vue is a solid, sturdy vehicle. Check it out... it should be arriving at stores soon.

Oh, and I think you'll be impressed with the V6! :)

Hope that helps,
Charlie

[Charlie]

Is a sunroof available on the 08 Vue? When can we expect to see it in showrooms?

Saturn isn't saying a specific date yet, but it will be available later in the production run.

Charlie

[junie]

Of course its nicer! No surprise here. The old Vue doubters wouldn't know nicer it if it smacked 'em in the chops. Geez. What "less utility" does it have. "Heello". Ooooh, sports vanity veh. - showing your depth of creativity there. Amazing how these predetermined opinion, biased to outdated architecture, won't like it, skeptical, its not plastic and heavier not a Honda engine, neck chocked lack of air to brain critics to a fault make it up as they go along.....blah blah blah. Its as though some current owners don't like the idea of being stuck with an outdated model and will pick apart the new one to justify their current ownership. How about that...strike a nerve?

Looking forward to your ON HANDS, actually drove it, sat in it, smelled it, current Vue owner, objective analysis Charlie. Thanks.

[Charlie]

Correction: It's not "based on" the Opel design. It is the Opel design, a rebadge.

That's really not correct. The new Vue is based on the same Theta architecture that the current generation Vue uses. I'd argue that the new Vue is no more an Opel as it is a Saturn... its a GM compact SUV. "Opel" engineers had as much to do with the design of the new model as "Saturn" engineers did. GM doesn't have brand-specific engineering centers anymore; they've been replaced with GM engineering facilities worldwide that specialize in the development of different types of vehicles. In order for GM to be able to compete in today's marketplace, they have reorganized to leverage their worldwide recourses. In the Vue's case, a majority of the engineering was done by GM engineers in Korea, but some was also done in North America, Europe, and other places as well. Looking back at the history of the Theta architecture, it makes sense that Korea took the lead in the redesign/update... I've been told that GM Korean engineers played a huge part in the development of the original Theta architecture.

Charlie

[Charlie]

One other thought on this subject. Every time Saturn releases an updated version of an existing model, tension develops between old and new owners. Everyone has their own personal reasons for purchasing a vehicle. Understandably, your vehicle is the "best" (mine always are :D). But let's not turn the Vue's redesign into a bashing session of the new model and new customers. I guarantee that for every "bad" thing you can list about the new Vue, someone else can counter with the same number of "bad" things about your model. Its okay to share your feelings about both the old and new models, but let's not make things personal.

I encourage everyone to welcome new owners and visitors to the site with open arms. We each have our personal preferences and opinions, but its important that we all get along. After all, the SaturnFans Forums are about community. We're all here for one reason: we're Saturn owners, enthusiasts, and potential customers.

Thanks for your support,
Charlie

[BobbyP]

I've been told that GM Korean engineers played a huge part in the development of the original Theta architecture.

Charlie

I've mentioned that before and "DC" replied and said it was absolutely false. Other than Wikipedia I couldn't find anything on the Internet to substantiate it.

[BobbyP]

Back to the sunroof issue. This subject has come up on here before, and just so that we don't continue perpetuate bad information (I'm not sure where it started),

Oh, and I think you'll be impressed with the V6! :)

Hope that helps,
Charlie

Unfortunately it came from here. One of the Saturn engineers told a sales consultant this information during a ride and drive session.

I hope the GM 3.6L works out. The L66 is a hard act to follow.

[BobbyP]

Its as though some current owners don't like the idea of being stuck with an outdated model and will pick apart the new one to justify their current ownership. How about that...strike a nerve?

Looking forward to your ON HANDS, actually drove it, sat in it, smelled it, current Vue owner, objective analysis Charlie. Thanks.

This would hold more weight if the replacement actually looked better, or was substantially improved (not counting the safety improvements).

Owning an outdated model isn't a problem. The whole time I had my SC and the ION was being sold I didn't feel outdated. The ION was not the updated chassis we all expected. I hope history is not repeating itself.

We'll all know the truth when the 2008 VUE hits the market.

[junie]

What is about the old Vue owners that think the new Vue isn't as good looking or isn't an improvement? They (a select vocal few) keep harping on that. I just do not understand that. Specifics please!

[BobbyP]

Junie - Charlie would rather everyone wait until the 2008 VUE is available and can be evaluated first hand.

I've driven all US versions; Suzuki, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn; of the Theta chassis SUV's and want to see/drive it first hand before making any more judgements.

[mwhite]

Junie - Charlie would rather everyone wait until the 2008 VUE is available and can be evaluated first hand.

I've driven all US versions; Suzuki, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn; of the Theta chassis SUV's and want to see/drive it first hand before making any more judgements.

:D COMMON SENSE IS STILL ALIVE!! VERY WELL PUT BOBBY P,NO FURTHER COMMENT FROM ME IS NEEDED!!:yes:

[Jerome10]

What is up with the giant blinker/wiper stalks?! Looks like if you broke em off you could beat someone down with them. And then they got that horrid rubber boot at the bottom.

Jeez.

[DesertPuma]

congrats on your 1,000th post puma. what percentage of those posts were bashing Saturn!!! (hehe, I couldn't resist ;)

Gee thanks, didn't even notice :D

As far as your question, probably the back 1/3. :D (But only since the announcement of dropping the polymer. Improvement wanted? Fine, I still say it could have been done without dropping the polymer. (JMO)

[06VRL]

What is about the old Vue owners that think the new Vue isn't as good looking or isn't an improvement? They (a select vocal few) keep harping on that. I just do not understand that. Specifics please!

They keep forgetting to put on their "Rose Colored Glasses" :yes:

[Pete93SL1M]

I've driven all US versions; Suzuki, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Saturn; of the Theta chassis SUV's and want to see/drive it first hand before making any more judgements.


Is that a promise? Perhaps you should just start your own site along the lines of saturncritics.com, as that seems to be all you do.
Why don't you just admit you wanted a Honda, but someone talked you into your Saturn and you've regretted it ever since.

[mellissam]

......The new Vue is based on the same Theta architecture that the current generation Vue uses. I'd argue that the new Vue is no more an Opel as it is a Saturn... its a GM compact SUV. "Opel" engineers had as much to do with the design of the new model as "Saturn" engineers did. .. I've been told that GM Korean engineers played a huge part in the development of the original Theta architecture.

Charlie

Really? I didn't know that...I thought Opel (its all GM is it not?) was the sole designer of the new chassis. Interesting that the Theta architecture is still alive...I thought this was a ground up re-invention.

I do hope the new Vue does take off, but it really doesn't 'wow' me....my Silven does that...LOL...The new Vue has a Euro interior with Asian exterior...at least that is my read on it (and the peek I had of it at the Vancouver Auto Show). It looks fragile compared to the 'old' Vue, which had a more utilitarian look (NA interior with Euro exterior - rounded corners). :)

[slv01sc2]

I would love to get a new Vue later in the production run like summer of 08. My 01 SC2 is at 101,000 miles now and will be in the market soon. My only problem is that I have $2,600 on my GM Mastercard and can't use it toward Saturn. Why not the cars now even say GM on the side. You can even use it on Hummer now! Does anyone know if GM Card dollars will ever include Saturn other than time to time offers as in the past? I have not even seen Saturn included as part of a special promotion.

[BobbyP]

Is that a promise? Perhaps you should just start your own site along the lines of saturncritics.com, as that seems to be all you do.
Why don't you just admit you wanted a Honda, but someone talked you into your Saturn and you've regretted it ever since.

Pete don't read anything into my praise of the Honda V6. It's been a positive experience for Saturn and Honda alike. I've been a happy Saturn owner for 16 years.

I and what appears to be a majority of others do not like the appearance of the 2008 VUE. The technical specs don't look promising. IMO you will have a difficult job selling this product.

Granted the 2008 VUE may ride/handle better, have a better interior. Those items will not bring customers in the showroom to buy this product. Perfect example is the the great performing Aura sports sedan. Even with all the multitude of tv ads, COTY award, and positive press; the Aura isn't selling well.

[junie]

But, old architecture, outdated poor design, crude driveline and plastic body components will? What tech. specs don't look "promising"...no plastic?? The new Vue will do just fine without a plastic box design powered by Honda. Geez, the skeptics are alive and well.

[06VRL]

Your all forgetting one important fact, until recently, Saturn was given very little resources, funding and even support from GM the "Parent Company" (in comparison to what some of the other GM brands squandered there fortunes on), Saturn was basically regarded as the "Red Headed Stepchild" and yet they still exist, those nottheads in GM Corporate finally could no longer deny that gee, maybe Saturn really does have a way forward and in just 2 years Saturn has brought forth new, innovative and worthy products to the table, show me any other car company that has done that in as short amount of time? Saturn has years of bad press and mediocre products to overcome (as perceived by John Que Public), but they are doing it, and doing it quite well!

[junie]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070516/FREE/70515014/1532/FREE

Secondly, even without driving this vehicle it is obvious this is a gargantuan improvement over the Vue it replaces, the boxy, plastic-paneled small SUV that took seemingly forever to complete its gestation period. By the time the first Vue arrived in late 2001 (as an ’02 model), the market was awash in small utes with more stylish wrappers, better interiors and stronger powertrains.

Our test model, a nearly loaded all-wheel-drive Vue XR with the 3.6-liter V6 priced at $31,115, was a far better driver than the model it replaces, and definitely on par with the latest Toyota RAV4 and Honda CR-V. The Vue felt lighter than the last RAV4 we drove, and overall, more handsome to the eye. We actually noticed people ogling and pointing as we drove by. The last time that happened in a Saturn was when the first sedans rolled out of Spring Hill back in 1990.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070516/FREE/70515014/1532/FREE

[beanheadz]

Yoiks! A really good review! I can't wait to drive this!
BTW, it is totally completely beyond me how anyone thinks the old VUE is better-looking than the 08 version. Geez, use your eyes!!
(yes i know that comment is probably better for another thread)

[BobbyP]

But, old architecture, outdated poor design, crude driveline and plastic body components will? What tech. specs don't look "promising"...no plastic??

My GOD junie you should have been around in the 50's... You could have took a stab at selling the Edsel... :)

IMO 90% of the "old" architecture is still present in the 2008 VUE. The old VUE had a better design, it was lighter, more space efficient, and got better gas mileage. Spec wise the "old" VUE gets better mileage, has a more reliable powertrain, built in a better US factory, and won't be rusted and dented up like the rest of the competition.

The new Vue will do just fine without a plastic box design powered by Honda. Geez, the skeptics are alive and well.

The new 2008 VUE will do fine with a banged up steel body, inferior powertrains... Nothing sceptical about the facts the Honda engine was the best part of the 2004-2007 VUE. There's thousands of VUE owners to support that.

I won't comment on the styling until I see it in person, but in the pictures the styling reminds me of a slug.

[junie]

Oh Bobby...must be one tough time to be clinging on to the past with such blind passion...good for you, hang in there and enjoy your old Vue as the future moves past you.....there is one obvious question that has to be asked however....if plastic is such a miracle vehicle component for exterior skin why isn't it used, at all (other than Vette)?? And where do you drive your Vue where it is dented, rusted out and ultimately a pile of scrap anyway....its not the the vehicle's skin you should be concerned about, its your driving habits and your locale. I'll take the 3.6L DOHC VVT with the 6 speed over your Honda SOHC with some trans., thank you. A "slug" huh? Interesting...I guess. The '08 Vue is an excellent styled up to date design. The old one served its purpose Bobby, its over and is being replaced now. Its OK. Really.

[BobbyP]

Oh Bobby...must be one tough time to be clinging on to the past with such blind passion...good for you, hang in there and enjoy your old Vue as the future moves past you.....there is one obvious question that has to be asked however....if plastic is such a miracle vehicle component for exterior skin why isn't it used, at all (other than Vette)?? And where do you drive your Vue where it is dented, rusted out and ultimately a pile of scrap anyway....its not the the vehicle's skin you should be concerned about, its your driving habits and your locale. I'll take the 3.6L DOHC VVT with the 6 speed over your Honda SOHC with some trans., thank you. A "slug" huh? Interesting...I guess. The '08 Vue is an excellent styled up to date design. The old one served its purpose Bobby, its over and is being replaced now. Its OK. Really.

Oh Junie... Heard of V-TEC? Our extremely reliable efficient L66 engines also have variable valve timing also using a less complex SOHC system. The LY7 3.6L V6 does have a flatter torque curve from having VVT on both the intake and outake. The six speed automatic still has PROBLEMS.

If you had any history with Saturn you would know how GREAT the polymer panel bodies lasted in the worst enviroments. From what you just said about polymer bodies proves you don't have a clue how well they served the Saturn community.

Junie did you really read the Edmunds review? There was a few keywords... cosmetic redesign... Less front seat legroom, less cargo room, 16mpg city, 520 extra pounds, "Dumbo ear" rear view mirroes that create wind noise...

I like the more posh interior, but the new 2008 VUE fails in every other category...

Yes, the current VUE is gone. Now there's a lot of reasons NOT to consider Saturn for your next vehicle. Go to the General discussion forum and look at the results.

[junie]

Give it up B.P.

[NSAP]

Oh Junie... Heard of V-TEC? Our extremely reliable efficient L66 engines also have variable valve timing also using a less complex SOHC system. The LY7 3.6L V6 does have a flatter torque curve from having VVT on both the intake and outake. The six speed automatic still has PROBLEMS.

If you had any history with Saturn you would know how GREAT the polymer panel bodies lasted in the worst enviroments. From what you just said about polymer bodies proves you don't have a clue how well they served the Saturn community.

Junie did you really read the Edmunds review? There was a few keywords... cosmetic redesign... Less front seat legroom, less cargo room, 16mpg city, 520 extra pounds, "Dumbo ear" rear view mirroes that create wind noise...

I like the more posh interior, but the new 2008 VUE fails in every other category...

Yes, the current VUE is gone. Now there's a lot of reasons NOT to consider Saturn for your next vehicle. Go to the General discussion forum and look at the results.

The 6T70 transmission does not have any problems. Don't judge the car based off of reviews anyway. What the reviewers don't tell you is that the 6T70 transmission has a "learning" mode that adpats its shift points to different driving personalities. When the transmission is in this mode, it WILL GET CONFUSED! For the last two months I have been driving a Ford product with the same transmission (the 6T70 was jointly developed with Ford), and when it was brand new it did get confused. However, it has since chilled out and shifts fine.

Why don't you hold your opinion until you drive one? Chances are you'll like it. If not, well, from your posts I think its safe to say you are bitter that Saturn has changed, and your Vue now is old.

Judging by what I've read, I think it is safe to assume the 2008 Vue 3.6 will get better real world gas mileage than the old Vue 3.5. Don't judge it off of EPA ratings, they are next to pointless 90% of the time.

[cdp326]

Oh Junie... Heard of V-TEC? Our extremely reliable efficient L66 engines also have variable valve timing also using a less complex SOHC system. The LY7 3.6L V6 does have a flatter torque curve from having VVT on both the intake and outake. The six speed automatic still has PROBLEMS.
I +1 what NSAP said, and would like to add that Toyota has had problems with the 5-speed automatic in the Avalon and IIRC RAV4 V6s, as well as the 6-speed automatic in the Camry V6s. (I'm not trying to make Toyota look bad--only to balance things.) Your Honda 5-speed automatic wasn't automatically (no pun intended) reliable--it had its own problems that had to be worked out, too. It would be unfair to knock the new 6-speed automatic for having had issues and forget about those that the Honda 5-speed auto had.
Most other manufacturers use DOHC V6 engines. V6s from Toyota, Nissan, and Ford are all DOHC. Honda's own I4s are DOHC. You drove a 1992 SC with the DOHC I4 for many years.

If you had any history with Saturn you would know how GREAT the polymer panel bodies lasted in the worst enviroments. From what you just said about polymer bodies proves you don't have a clue how well they served the Saturn community.
That's true, they were great and my 1994 SC2 does look good still. Except for any scratches in the paint and the front fascia that is a slightly different shade and sags a bit. The pinstriping is fading off, the paint on the mirrors is fading, the "SATURN" lettering in the back is coming off, and the molding below the driver's window is chipping away some. The sunroof wind deflector has some nicks in it, from airbone stones I presume.

Junie did you really read the Edmunds review? There was a few keywords... cosmetic redesign...
What do you mean by that? The exterior styling was changed. I don't see your point there.

Less front seat legroom,
There's a large amount of front seat legroom in the old VUE. I don't care about front seat legroom when the seats aren't the best (VUE Red Line seats aren't the same so you probably wouldn't know as well) and the rear seat is horrible. The space and comfort itself of the seat is unnoticeable since it's much, much too low. They could actually lose rear seat legroom and it would be an improvement as long as the seat is positioned much higher.

less cargo room,
If it's more usable then it's O.K. A lot of the loss is more likely due to the sloping roofline, and how often are things loaded that high?

16mpg city, 520 extra pounds, "Dumbo ear" rear view mirroes that create wind noise...
All of that is unfortunate, but I don't find the old VUE to be very quiet either. Plus, it's not unusual for a car to be quieted so that you end up mainly hearing the wind noise.

All that, yet don't most reviewers still seem to like the '08 VUE?

I like the more posh interior, but the new 2008 VUE fails in every other category...
Please tell me where you've seen it then, because I'm really looking forward to seeing one in person. :yes:

[BobbyP]

Give it up B.P.

Never... I'm looking forward to driving a VUE XR. I'm certain it will drive very similar to the Pontiac Torrent.

The exterior paint finish looked very good in Charlie's pictures...

[NSAP]

Never... I'm looking forward to driving a VUE XR. I'm certain it will drive very similar to the Pontiac Torrent.

Don't be too certain. The Torrent shares no powertrain components with the Vue (aside from the not-yet-released 2008 Torrent GXP).

[BobbyP]

I +1 what NSAP said, and would like to add that Toyota has had problems with the 5-speed automatic in the Avalon and IIRC RAV4 V6s, as well as the 6-speed automatic in the Camry V6s. (I'm not trying to make Toyota look bad--only to balance things.) Your Honda 5-speed automatic wasn't automatically (no pun intended) reliable--it had its own problems that had to be worked out, too. It would be unfair to knock the new 6-speed automatic for having had issues and forget about those that the Honda 5-speed auto had.
Most other manufacturers use DOHC V6 engines. V6s from Toyota, Nissan, and Ford are all DOHC. Honda's own I4s are DOHC. You drove a 1992 SC with the DOHC I4 for many years.
:

Honda did have problems with their newly released 5 spd automatic in 2004. They quickly resolved their problems. It's now as refined and reliable as any GM automatic. IMO GM's has always been my reference benchmark for automatics. I'm very impressed with the engineering in the new 6T70, but it has had shift abnormalities in every Saturn it's been used in.

That's true, they were great and my 1994 SC2 does look good still. Except for any scratches in the paint and the front fascia that is a slightly different shade and sags a bit. The pin striping is fading off, the paint on the mirrors is fading, the "SATURN" lettering in the back is coming off, and the molding below the driver's window is chipping away some. The sunroof wind deflector has some nicks in it, from airborne stones I presume.
:

Isn't it great how the s-series have gracefully aged? You still see them all over the place. I remember the Ford Probe, and Mitsu Eclipse was very popular in the 90's, but you hardly see any on the road any more. The SC sure outlasted the competition.

What do you mean by that? The exterior styling was changed. I don't see your point there.
:

Junie keeps touting how out of date the current chassis is. All the reviews suggest that the 2008 is primarily a cosmetic redesign. Slap on the steel fenders and doors, and install a nice interior. Sad part of the story is steel body panel construction is supposed to save weight over polymer, but the opposite happened with the redesign.

There's a large amount of front seat legroom in the old VUE. I don't care about front seat legroom when the seats aren't the best (VUE Red Line seats aren't the same so you probably wouldn't know as well) and the rear seat is horrible. The space and comfort itself of the seat is unnoticeable since it's much, much too low. They could actually lose rear seat legroom and it would be an improvement as long as the seat is positioned much higher.
:

If it's more usable then it's O.K. A lot of the loss is more likely due to the sloping roof line, and how often are things loaded that high?
:

I've loaded my VUE to the ceiling several times this year. The 2008 reduced the front leg room to give more room for the rear seat area. I have long legs. I use every inch of front legroom. To lose two inches is not acceptable.

All of that is unfortunate, but I don't find the old VUE to be very quiet either. Plus, it's not unusual for a car to be quieted so that you end up mainly hearing the wind noise.
:

I find the 2006-07 VUE's are a lot quieter than the earlier VUE's. IMO the noise levels quiet considering the large amount of space open to the road. The Equinox, XL7, and Torrent (steel bodied Theta's) weren't any quieter than my VUE.

All that, yet don't most reviewers still seem to like the '08 VUE? :

I'm glad they didn't butcher it up like the previous Saturns. The more critical reviews are yet to come.

Please tell me where you've seen it then, because I'm really looking forward to seeing one in person. :yes:

Never said I seen it in person, but it's been arriving at dealers this week.

[BobbyP]

Don't be too certain. The Torrent shares no powertrain components with the Vue (aside from the not-yet-released 2008 Torrent GXP).

Understood, but the ride and handling may be similar. The Torrent really handled well, but the ride was stiffer. I was surprised how quiet and smooth the Chinese GM 3400 engine was. I hope the LY7 3.6L in the new 2008 VUE is just as smooth.

[BobbyP]

The 6T70 transmission does not have any problems. Don't judge the car based off of reviews anyway. What the reviewers don't tell you is that the 6T70 transmission has a "learning" mode that adpats its shift points to different driving personalities. When the transmission is in this mode, it WILL GET CONFUSED! For the last two months I have been driving a Ford product with the same transmission (the 6T70 was jointly developed with Ford), and when it was brand new it did get confused. However, it has since chilled out and shifts fine.

IMO there's more to the 6T70 shift problems. If it was that simple, GM wouldn't keep releasing revised operating software.

Why don't you hold your opinion until you drive one? Chances are you'll like it. If not, well, from your posts I think its safe to say you are bitter that Saturn has changed, and your Vue now is old.

Not bitter, very disappointed that Saturn lost out on the opportunity to improve the VUE to be a no excuse compromised compact SUV. The CR-V and RAV4 have been steadily improved with every redesign, and the 2008 VUE redesign did not. I would buy a 2008 VUE tomorrow if it was significantly better than the one I own, but it is not.

Judging by what I've read, I think it is safe to assume the 2008 Vue 3.6 will get better real world gas mileage than the old Vue 3.5. Don't judge it off of EPA ratings, they are next to pointless 90% of the time.

Wishful thinking NSAP... What law of physics is the 2008 VUE going to break? I seriously doubt the heavier 2008 VUE with the 3.6L can match the current VUE 3.5L.

Once the 2008 VUE's get into the real world we'll see how good the mileage actually is.

[mellissam]

......Not bitter, very disappointed that Saturn lost out on the opportunity to improve the VUE to be a no excuse compromised compact SUV. ......

I've only seen the new Vue in person, but have yet to drive one, so I suppose everything has to be taken with a grain of salt...I too, am disappointed with the opportunity they had to really make a class leading cute-ute. It's as if each division within GM had to take a swing at the bat, sort of speak, to come up with this latest Vue. I get the feeling GM likes to throw the baby out with bath water when things aren't going well. While I applaud their efforts to downsize (much needed), they didn't do what I would consider to be successsful, that is, improve on what needs improving, not start from scratch (although I understand the platform is still theta). 500lbs heavier, correlating to worse mpg is not what I consider improving...that is probably why most folks bought the Vue in the first place (that and price).

Its Opel's turn to swing the bat, and while I am warming up to the interior, the exterior is an Asian copy. Performance would be outstanding, but the thing is a small tank. They nicked and tucked the interior, so it is now smaller...I want to smack a GM designer upside the head!

Imagine this new interior in 07 body? Put in the 3.5/3.6 GM pp, and away we go....do a little bolstering in the engine compartment to handle the new pp...:) Fix the back seats, put in a under cargo storage (make it deeper for non-AWD Vues)....all wheel disc brakes...ESP/ABS standard...side airbags standard...bolster the seats a bit more.....I'd be first in line for new one....:yes:

[NSAP]

Understood, but the ride and handling may be similar. The Torrent really handled well, but the ride was stiffer. I was surprised how quiet and smooth the Chinese GM 3400 engine was. I hope the LY7 3.6L in the new 2008 VUE is just as smooth.

Handling should be superior to the Torrent, as the Vue doesn't use the crappy electric steering. And much of the suspension was designed in Europe, so that is a plus as well. HAHA. If you think the 3400 is smooth, then the LY7 will blow your mind. Coming from someone that drives a CTS 3.6 and Equinox 3.4 a lot, I can tell you the 3.6 makes the 3.4 sound like a tractor motor. Hell, the 3.9L OHV VVT in my G6 GTP puts the 3.4 to shame.

IMO there's more to the 6T70 shift problems. If it was that simple, GM wouldn't keep releasing revised operating software.


Show me a modern 5 or 6-speed automatic that DIDN'T have several software updates in the beginning. The Aisin 5-speed in my Equinox has had several software updates. The Ford 6-speed auto in the Fusion has had software updates since launch. Toyota's 6-speed in the Camry has had way more than software updates, but rather replacement of the whole unit with a new one.

You will not buy a brand new vehicle that does not have software updates come out for it periodically. They may be electronics updates, PCM updates, or transmission updates.

Wishful thinking NSAP... What law of physics is the 2008 VUE going to break? I seriously doubt the heavier 2008 VUE with the 3.6L can match the current VUE 3.5L.

You have seem to have forgotten about the Vue's aerodynamics. Of which, I believe the 2008 is more aero. That has a decent impact on fuel economy. Not to mention the transmission gearing, and the fact that it has one more gear than the old Vue.

I'm quite convinced that if the media and general GM fans like a new Saturn product, chances are, "old Saturn" fans will not.

[BobbyP]

Handling should be superior to the Torrent, as the Vue doesn't use the crappy electric steering. And much of the suspension was designed in Europe, so that is a plus as well. HAHA. If you think the 3400 is smooth, then the LY7 will blow your mind. Coming from someone that drives a CTS 3.6 and Equinox 3.4 a lot, I can tell you the 3.6 makes the 3.4 sound like a tractor motor. Hell, the 3.9L OHV VVT in my G6 GTP puts the 3.4 to shame.

The EPS in my Red Line does a good job, still hydraulic PS does offer a better feel. Many standard VUE owners really like the lighter calibrated EPS. Don't discount the 1/2 mpg gain not having to operate a parasitic hydraulic pump. The hydraulic PS had a few "issues" in the Aura. HAHA... I'll let you know how well the European suspension calibration works out when I test drive the beast.

I said the 3400 was smooth, not silent. It did make the same noise/racket the GM V6's made in the 80's. The same V6's that were well known for their gasket failures.

Show me a modern 5 or 6-speed automatic that DIDN'T have several software updates in the beginning. The Aisin 5-speed in my Equinox has had several software updates. The Ford 6-speed auto in the Fusion has had software updates since launch. Toyota's 6-speed in the Camry has had way more than software updates, but rather replacement of the whole unit with a new one.

The manufacturers are using the owners as Beta testers. Transmission software should be nailed down before the vehicles go to market. This should be worked out in the test mule stage.

You will not buy a brand new vehicle that does not have software updates come out for it periodically. They may be electronics updates, PCM updates, or transmission updates.

I haven't had the need for any updates on my Saturn. I'd take any updated that would farther enhance it's performance. I seem to remember the Outlook owners saying don't get the transmission update because it will reduce the gas mileage... Not all updates obviously are wholly positive...

You have seem to have forgotten about the Vue's aerodynamics. Of which, I believe the 2008 is more aero. That has a decent impact on fuel economy. Not to mention the transmission gearing, and the fact that it has one more gear than the old Vue.

I haven't seen anything posted about the new VUE's drag coefficient. Just because it's rounded like a jelly bean doesn't guarantee a good cd. My RL has a pretty good CD, 0.36, considering it has the serodynamics of a cinder block.

I'm quite convinced that if the media and general GM fans like a new Saturn product, chances are, "old Saturn" fans will not.

Old... I'm certain time and sales will prove my points. NSAP let's revisit this post in 6 months... :) I'm prepared to say I was wrong. Are you?

[NSAP]

The EPS in my Red Line does a good job, still hydraulic PS does offer a better feel. Many standard VUE owners really like the lighter calibrated EPS. Don't discount the 1/2 mpg gain not having to operate a parasitic hydraulic pump. The hydraulic PS had a few "issues" in the Aura. HAHA... I'll let you know how well the European suspension calibration works out when I test drive the beast.

I said the 3400 was smooth, not silent. It did make the same noise/racket the GM V6's made in the 80's. The same V6's that were well known for their gasket failures.


I don't mind the lightness of EPS either. Actually I like the variable steering that comes with it a lot. However the 'Nox turns like its a 40-ft. boat, and there is next to zero feedback from it. What issues did the Aura steering have? My GTP has the same ZF steering system that the Aura has, and it has not been trouble.

The manufacturers are using the owners as Beta testers. Transmission software should be nailed down before the vehicles go to market. This should be worked out in the test mule stage.

I agree there. However it happens with nearly ever manufacturer.

I haven't had the need for any updates on my Saturn. I'd take any updated that would farther enhance it's performance. I seem to remember the Outlook owners saying don't get the transmission update because it will reduce the gas mileage... Not all updates obviously are wholly positive...

I haven't HAD to take any of my vehicles in for software updates either, but my Equinox has had three of them. Only one of them had something I needed, the rest were done just to keep my 'Nox up-to-date. I am almost certain there are probably PCM or electronic updates for your Vue, its just a matter of whether or not you complain about something that is part of the update or not. I encourage my dealership to do the updates (two of them were done during an oil change). The one update I needed was on the Aisin transmission; I lost the down-hill mode but gain MPG because it wasn't so reluctant to shift into fifth. So I took it.

Old... I'm certain time and sales will prove my points. NSAP let's revisit this post in 6 months... I'm prepared to say I was wrong. Are you?

For sure. I'm certain the sales will prove you wrong. One thing I've learned over the years; if the media likes it, the customer will too. Had you not owned a current Vue, I think you'd like it as well.

[Chevy_Rules]

One thing I've learned over the years; if the media likes it, the customer will too. Had you not owned a current Vue, I think you'd like it as well.

Explain the Aura then.........

[NSAP]

Explain the Aura then.........


The customer does like it, no? The Aura suffers from next to no marketing and having a new name that the customer is unaware of from a brand that has a little-known revitalization.

The Vue at least had brand-recognition.

[cdp326]

Honda did have problems with their newly released 5 spd automatic in 2004. They quickly resolved their problems. It's now as refined and reliable as any GM automatic. IMO GM's has always been my reference benchmark for automatics. I'm very impressed with the engineering in the new 6T70, but it has had shift abnormalities in every Saturn it's been used in.
Honda had troubles with their V6 automatics before then. It took Honda a few years to get transmissions down. Yes, they've gotten them down now. GM/Saturn shouldn't be singled out for having problems with their new transmission when they haven't been the only ones to have that as an issue before.

Isn't it great how the s-series have gracefully aged? You still see them all over the place. I remember the Ford Probe, and Mitsu Eclipse was very popular in the 90's, but you hardly see any on the road any more. The SC sure outlasted the competition.
That wasn't my point. I see the scratches and other age marks first. The interior hasn't aged as well...the driver's seat has lost the bolstering closer to the door, the driver's side automatic seatbelt is going out, etc.

Junie keeps touting how out of date the current chassis is. All the reviews suggest that the 2008 is primarily a cosmetic redesign. Slap on the steel fenders and doors, and install a nice interior. Sad part of the story is steel body panel construction is supposed to save weight over polymer, but the opposite happened with the redesign.

I've loaded my VUE to the ceiling several times this year. The 2008 reduced the front leg room to give more room for the rear seat area. I have long legs. I use every inch of front legroom. To lose two inches is not acceptable.
You drive with your VUE's seat all the way back?
How many typical buyers of compact SUVs load them like you do? For loads like you make them sound a pickup or tougher SUV seems like it would be the better choice (not saying that that should be your only car).

I find the 2006-07 VUE's are a lot quieter than the earlier VUE's. IMO the noise levels quiet considering the large amount of space open to the road. The Equinox, XL7, and Torrent (steel bodied Theta's) weren't any quieter than my VUE.
Probably so. If they have, great...they should have had enough time to make all the seats better. :arr: :D

I'm glad they didn't butcher it up like the previous Saturns. The more critical reviews are yet to come.
They sure don't seem to dislike it enough that the vehicle will be slammed later on.

Never said I seen it in person, but it's been arriving at dealers this week.
That's my point. You're talking like you have. :cool:

[saturncanuck]

Just to let everyone know.

We got out first 10 2008 VUEs and they are better than we thought.

:sneeze:

[beanheadz]

:hmpf: Owners of the 1st generation VUE: "no they are NOT better! Wah!
Wah! Have I seen one in person, or driven one, or even sat in one? Well, no, but I just KNOW the new one is NOT better!"

[Charlie]

:hmpf: Owners of the 1st generation VUE: "no they are NOT better! Wah!
Wah! Have I seen one in person, or driven one, or even sat in one? Well, no, but I just KNOW the new one is NOT better!"

Let's take it easy now. There's no need to perpetuate an "us" versus "them" or a "1st Gen" versus "2nd Gen" debate. They're all Saturns!

Charlie

[BobbyP]

Let's take it easy now. There's no need to perpetuate an "us" versus "them" or a "1st Gen" versus "2nd Gen" debate. They're all Saturns!

Charlie

The more I compare the two generations, the less I find that they actually changed. :dizzy:

[mellissam]

Let's take it easy now. There's no need to perpetuate an "us" versus "them" or a "1st Gen" versus "2nd Gen" debate. They're all Saturns!

Charlie

Lets face it, some are better than others...take for instance the Honda v6, you'd swear those folks think they went to heaven....little old me is quite happy with my i4 auto...I think it will, over time, prove to be the winning combination :p
Now, the 08 comes along and tries to upset our applecart...until they get up in numbers, they will be the black sheep of the family (like 06/07 were). Everybody tries to defend their purchase...even if it is dated. I have warmed up to the interior of the 08, but the exterior (blah), loss of cabin space, heavier, and lower mpg (time will tell on that one) spells trouble to the new sibling in the family.....Hopefully, we will get a ton of yuppies who love the 08 to death, buy it like hotcakes, because the old crowd will find it hard to swallow. Bring on the two-mode hybrids!!! I could seriously see myself in one of those....even with the loss of cabin space because some engineer liked sloping roofs....:dizzy:

[mellissam]

The more I compare the two generations, the less I find that they actually changed. :dizzy:

Its starting to look very cosmetic? BTW - where are these pictures of the suspension you talk about?

[beanheadz]

Sorry Charlie, wasn't trying to put fuel on the fire so to speak, it just seems like some (just some) of the VUE owners won't embrace the new VUE no matter what. I agree, I like 'em both (used to be a SC for saturn, might be doing that again soon). To me, a new Astra is every bit as much a Saturn as was an S-Series. Maybe not the same look, etc, but still a Saturn.

[ThePlainsman]

I saw the 08 Vue at the local Saturn dealer. I love the way it looks. Kinda Honda CR-V like but more attractive. I'm thinking about buying one. I never felt that way about the Vue before seeing the '08.

[Ken Baker]

Drove an XE AWD and an XE 2.4 FWD today. I like both vehicles. They are light years ahead of their older siblings. I'm quite happy with the exterior appearance and the interior appearance of the vehicle. They are much quieter and shift smoother than the previous models. I notice they are equipped with FIRESTONE tires as well. The hydraulic steering on the XE AWD was quite heavy compared with the electric assist on the XE 2.4 FWD.

The only downer I have is that I can't read the speedometer without my glasses. It has smaller numbers and being recessed is slightly further away. I didn't realise this until later this evening.

Now that I have driven it, I will have a hard time holding off on a purchase.