Hi/Low Beams at the Same Time

[wolfman]

Believe I have found a RELIABLE non-permanent way to run hi and lo headlights at the same time on both gen 1 and gen 2 s-series cars. Mod will not require the cutting or splicing of ANY wires and will be 100 % reverseable. It will also work on gen 2 cars WITHOUT disabling the DRL's nor will DRL's interfere with it's function. Best part is it will be VERY inexpensive. Anyone interested?

[L300Boy]

Got a good idea.... pull the hi beam lever back just before it clicks. It lights up both high and low beams. If you are looking for a no wire cutting solution, just use a rubber band or duct tape. :D :D

[woowoo]

Jumper the hot side of the fuses together?

[eRic 02sc2]

um... won't that blind oncoming traffic and kill the battery at the same time?

[L300Boy]

Nah, it would actually waste 0.001 mpg more gas.

[Qlara]

Unless you're driving in Street-lights-less forrest roads, what's the motive to run both Hi/Lo beam at the same time other than annoying oncoming traffic or get pulled over by the polices?

Gas wasted maybe neglegible, just that your Alternator and battery will die sooner rather than later. On avg the Hi-beam bulbs are drawing 110W extra. :rolleyes:

[toeachitsown]

l300 is right...all u gotta do is hold it back

[wolfman]

1.OBVIOUSLY you would only want all 4 lights (hi/lo) on when running in hi beam mode (DUH!)
2. Most cars in earlier years with 4 headlight system worked this way.
3. Yes it GREATLY improves visability when driving on dark unlit roads. (I live in Maine...thier damn near ALL like that)
4. From the front (IMHO) the car looks better when all the light s are on.
5. When your alternator is charging, current load increases GENERALLY do not effect longevity. Alternator output is measured in AMPS not WATTS. An additional 100 WATT load probably would NOT make a huge difference in alternator AMP output. (That amplifier you have on yur stereo draws WAY more power than ANY headlight ever would)
6. This mod WILL NOT effect battery life what-so-ever. (unless you regularly leave your lights on without the engine off)
7. Yes I am fully aware of the "hold the dimmer switch" trick but after 10 miles or so on a bumpy road it gets to be a pain.
8. No it WON'T get you pulled over by the police or "blind" other drivers (unless you fail to dim) as it is a common standard feature on older cars esp. those made in the 70's and early 80's.

I was not proposing to "sell" anyone anything. I have installed and field tested this mod on 2 Saturns (92' and 97') both with and without DRL's and it works perfectly. Install cost was less than $20.00 and took about 1/2 hour (to do it right). Best part is if the Mod should ever fail while in use, the headlights go back to normal factory operation without ANY intradiction by the operator.

[Tycho]

So what is the mod then?

c'mon...why not just post it and be like here you go...

Oh...HIs and LOWs at the same time makes a HUGE difference in visibility...especially when driving at speed on sketchy road because it lets you see...

1. What is coming up

and

2. What your tires are on right now

[L300Boy]

I would like to announce the introduction of the Hi-Ho hi/lo modification from L300Boy inc. As you probably have decided, $20 is an outragous amount of money for this modification.

We offer several trim levels for under $7 DOLLARS!

Hi-Ho Classic:

This is our classic version of the ever popular Hi-Lo beam modification. Enough to modify several vehicles with black or grey interior. $6.98

http://www.tapemonster.com/master3.cfm?WhichOne=23&cata=Duct%20Tape

Hi-Ho Special:

The Hi-Ho Special is of the same quality of the Classic, but matches tan interiors. $4.25

http://www.tapemonster.com/master3.cfm?WhichOne=121&cata=Duct%20Tape

Hi-Ho Sport:

The Hi-Ho Sport offers the quality of the Classic, but with the color Yellow. In addition to activating both high and low beams, it also gives your vehicle a sporty look and 5% performance increase*! $4.25

http://www.tapemonster.com/master3.cfm?WhichOne=25&cata=Duct%20Tape

[wolfman]

In regards to L300Boy's continued tirade...he obviously is a member of the primate school of car modification and repair. I imagine if he wanted clear valve covers for his L300 he'd just pop off the factories and stretch on some Saran Wrap (oh gee!!! it comes in colors too!!!) For the rest of you, I am working on a wiring diagram to attach to the next post. The less than $20 est. is based on you not already having anything you'll need. The cost for cars with DRL's is a bit more because the wiring is somewhat more complicated. I already had everything needed on hand so my cost was zero....Stay tuned I'll get the (two) diagrams up ASAP.

[wolfman]

I will attempt to attach both diagrams to this post. Here is a parts list for the modification
30 amp fog/driving lamp relay (2 needed for cars w/ DRL's)
Enough proper gauge wire to complete installation.

Diagram/mod works on the fact that Saturn Headlights always have positive (+) power going to them. When you turn on the switch you are supplying GND (-) to complete the circuit and turn them on. Modification uses the HIGH beam "ON" GND wire as signal voltage to a relay which in turn supplies LO beam "ON" GRD voltage to the LOW beam headlights direct from chassis ground while the high beams are on. When the high beams are turned off, the lows revert to their normal source of GND voltage. Diagram/Mod for cars with DRL's simply adds another relay/circuit to accomplish the same thing but only with the headlights on and NOT with the DRL's. This is the purpose of the additional relay and parking light connection for cars with DRL's. Modification supplies GROUND (NOT POSITVE!!!) to the lights direct from chassis, only using high beam as a relay activator. As a result current load on exising hi beam wiring IS NOT increased.

The EASIEST way to obtain the parts you need is to go to Walmart and buy a "Fog Light/Driving light wiring kit" ($10.00+/-) (Get two if doing a DRL car!) it will have the right relay and enough decent wire to do it. The relay itself does NOT need to be grounded.(NOTE: if you buy this kit immeadiately throw out the included wiring diagram that comes with it as it will only confuse you! This application is wired completely differently!) You can hook up to the headlight wiring without splicing or cutting by carefully removing the blue covers on the headlight plugs at the headlights and inserting the Modification's wires TIGHTLY alongside the factory wires. Then replace the covers.

DISCLAIMER!!!

NOTE:I HAVE DONE THIS MODIFICATION TO A 92' SL-2, a 95 SL-1, AND A 97' SL-2 SUCCESSFULLY. FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS CAREFULLY AND REMEMBER YOUR SCREW UP IS NOT MY FAULT!!!!!

The diagram size(s) are too big to attach I'll try to shrink them and post seperately!!!!

[wolfman]

Sorry guys I've been trying to post the diagrams for better than an hour now and everytime I try the board has some other reason why it won't let me:dizzy: I'VE HAD IT!!!:hmpf: :hmpf: :hmpf: If you want them let me know and I'll send alone the appropriate 1 you need via email.

[wolfman]

For 91-95 without DRL's

[wolfman]

For 96+ WITH DRL's

[David 93 SL2m]

Wolfman's diagrams of relays have the contacts for the coils on the right sides and the contacts for the switched device on the left sides.

Wolfman's correct about the current flow at the headlights. Current flows to the headlight bulbs and then to an OEM relay which then leads to a ground. The OEM relay is controlled by the headlight switch in the driver's area. So turning the lights on with the steering wheel switch allows current to flow across the coil of the OEM relay, which then switches "closed" - providing the ground and completing the circuit. I only looked at the diagram for Saturns without DRLs and it looks proper.

I did this headlight modification on my 1993 SL2 several years ago in a very similar manner. No sweat. I based my design on ideas from Dan Stern's webpage (http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/how_to/). The only difference I did was route the new wire into the driver's area where I installed a switch so that I can enable/disable this mod as I wish.

By the same token we can do a similar thing with relays to add DRLs to a 1991 - 1995 SLx: let new relays provide a ground for the high beams. Then you acn drive around with just the high beams on in broad daylight just like the newer Saturns do while leaving all the parking lights off.

When looking at diagrams such as wolfman's and Dan Stern's, trace the lines and pretend that these are pipes with water flowing (or not flowing) through them.

[Heartbeat - '95 SL2]

What wire gauge is recommended? Sounds like a great idea, even if you only encounter dark roads occassionally. Usually when it's high beam time, it's pitch black and the more light, the better. Thanks for the posts.

[David 93 SL2m]

For wolfman's modification, common 18-gauge wire will be okay. If you want to build your own wire harness using directions similar to Dan Stern's, I'd recommend 12-gauge wire - especially if you are running 80 watt or 100 watt bulbs.

When drawing current from the battery, make sure that it is fused!!! An inline fuse holder is less than $3. Cheap insurance.

[Shawn]

Thank you Wolfman. This is a helpful mod that will really benefit those of us with early SLs that don't a have a good spot in the bumper to mount driving lights.

Can this be included in the How To Tips section?

[ProDarwin]

Thanks. About to head to walmart to get parts.

[ProDarwin]

Wolfman - I found a cheap 30A relay at a local store, for "auxiliary lamps" which has 4 terminals on it:

1 Terminal for lights or horns
2 terminal from switch
3 terminal for relay ground wire
4 terminal from power source.

Will this work? I would imagine I could make it work, I am just not sure about the connections. I would think that if I hook 1 to High Beam ground, 2 to chassis ground, 3 to positive, and 4 to low beam ground. I might have 2 and 3 backwards. Let me know what you think.

[DualCamCoupe]

Why isn't this the way they come from the factory?

[GRIFF]

Thanks Wolfman ~ I think i'll give it a try

[LoveMySL1s]

Wolfman:
To avoid potential confusion, as alluded to in David 93 SL2m's reply, can you add the relay terminal numbers to the diagrams?

[David 93 SL2m]

Here is my best guess as to what is going on.

First, a quick overview of SPST (Single Pole Single Throw) relays. A relay is a switch that opens and closes based on the presence and absence of power going to something else. A good example of where a relay would be used is the power antenna of a car. A relay would be used to sense that the radio is powered on, then the relay would "switch" (close) and allow power to go to the antenna so it rises. When the radio is turned off, the relay senses that and "switches" again (open) and stops the flow of power to the antenna so it retracts. Usually inside the relay is a coil and a metallic switch maybe with a magnet on it. When current flows across the coiled wire, it gives off a magnetic field and that causes the switch to close. When current stops flowing across the coiled wire, the magnetic field stops and then the switch opens again. There are 4 contacts on the relay and usually they are numbered and labeled as follows:
http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/SPST.jpg
I added the green coiled wire which is appropriately called the "coil" and the red line to show the switching mechanism. The red dashed line shows where the red line from below moves when current flows across the coil, contacting the red line from above (and completing the circuit).

In Wolfman's diagram for Saturn S-Series without daytime running lights, I think the ground at the top left would go to relay terminal 87 and the low beam ground wire (tan) at the bottom left would go to relay terminal 30. We could swap 30 and 87 without any problems. Next, I think the power at the top right would go to relay terminal 86 and the high beam ground (light green) at the bottom right would go to relay terminal 85. We could swap 86 and 85 without any problems.

ProDarwin's relay has the following information: 1 Terminal for lights or horns 2 terminal from switch 3 terminal for relay ground wire 4 terminal from power sourceI think... #1 (lights or horn) would go to relay terminal 87 which is at the top left of Wolfman's diagram. #4 (power source) would go to relay terminal 30 which is at the bottom left of Wolfman's diagram. #2 (switch) would go to relay terminal 86 which is at the top right of Wolfman's diagram. #3 (ground) would go to relay terminal 85 which is at the bottom right of Wolfman's diagram.Hopefully Wolfman will give us further help with this!

[ProDarwin]

Wow! Thanks for the circuits lesson. I looked at my relay again and realized that those terminals are numbered (85,86,87,30). Hopefully Wolfman will chime in soon. I am anxious to get this done.

[LvnInPeace]

ok.......what the h**l are DRL's? might sound dumb but I dont know! lol.... does this work on the SC2's with pop up lights? because yes that would be an awesome addition! I love having both on but hate the look up *100MPH* tape...lol and get really tired of holding it back the whole time when going 100MPH! lol

[ProDarwin]

What? Your car has one headling on each side. No, it won't work. Also, DRL = Daytime Running Lights.

[LvnInPeace]

well dangit...there has to be a way other than duct tape..because if I hold back the high beam switch i get low and highs at the same time... and yes I only 1 on each side... hmmmmmm there has to be a way to fix this! anyone know? ive hard of people doing it to single headlights on each side but dont know how.......

[ProDarwin]

low and high at the same time on a single headling = bad.

[David 93 SL2m]

The idea behind Wolfman's suggestion for S-Series with 4 headlights but without daytime running lights is for power to pass from a source such as the battery through the relay's coil to the ground side wire of one of the high beam headlights. When the high beams are not on, the power supplied to the relay's coil has nowhere to go. But when the high beams are on, that current supplied to the relay's coil will get grounded too. Then the magic happens!

The relay now switches closed. The current for the low beam headlight now gets grounded - that circuit is completed and the low beam headlight comes on.

Turn the high beam headlights off and the power going through the relay's coil stops flowing, the relay switches open, and power flowing from the low beam ground wire to a grounding point (across the relay) is stopped - and the low beam goes out.

The reason this works is because both wires going to each headlight bulb have power. Let's ignore relays for a second. One of the wires for each headlight goes to a power source such as the battery. The other wire for each headlight goes to the switch on the steering wheel lever that also does the turn signals, then immediately goes to a grounding point. When we tap into the grounding side wire for a headlight bulb between the bulb and the switch on the steering wheel, then touch that wire to a grounding spot - the light comes on because we are completing the circuit. Wolfman's method does this automatically by using a relay. The relay notices that the high beams are on (power is flowing with the high beams) and provides a ground for the wire for the low beam bulb so the low beam will come on too. Let me know if anybody wants me to explain this with a couple of scanned pictures. It is not a problem. When looking at these things, imagine that power is water and that wires are pipes. Where will the water flow? Where will the water not be flowing?

One thing I just realized! We can tap into the grounding wire for one of the high beam bulbs and use one relay (the relay's coil that is), but this will only let one of the low beams turn on. To get both to come on, we have to do one of two things: Bring wires from each of the low beam bulbs' grounding wires to the switching terminal of the relay Use two relays and do this procedure for the driver's side and the passenger's side.

[David 93 SL2m]

Originally posted by ProDarwin
low and high at the same time on a single headling = bad. Having both low and high beam filaments in one bulb on at the same time is okay for a short duration, such as doing a flash to pass. But I agree, doing it for a long time (i.e. more than a few seconds) will generate a lot of heat and that will shorten the bulb life and maybe toast the grounding wire for the bulb. My wife did this on our minivan! She would drive on this one very dark road one night per week and simply use "flash-to-pass" for about 2 minutes straight. Then one of the bulbs burned out. When I removed the bulb I saw the bulb's socket at the end of the wiring harness was charred!

[ProDarwin]

David - finally got around to doing this. Worked great, thanks for the help! I'll put some pics of the install up tomorrow. I managed to keep it pretty clean.

[David 93 SL2m]

Congratulations! :cool: Yes, do post pictures!

You should thank Wolfman first! ;)

Did you get this done with one relay or with two relays?

I didn't want to add any confusion but some SPST relays have two 87 terminals so that two things can get power - or more appropiately, so that two things can get switched off and on. They are usually labeled 87 and 87a or labeled 87a and 87b. No difference. But if you had one of these relays then definitely only one relay would be needed. Remember I wrote we can swap 30 and 87 without any problems? In Wolfman's diagram for Saturn S-Series without daytime running lights, I think the ground at the top left would go to relay terminal 30 and the low beam ground wires (tan) at the bottom left would go to relay terminals 87 and 87a. No difference and you have it working so do not redo it!

It is beyond me why Saturn did not wire the 4 headlight system without DRLs as Wolfman had outlined. One or two simple relays (less than the cost of a pizza) and they could have done this for us. :x

[ProDarwin]

Thanks Wolfman.

Ok, here is a pic of the install. I took one of the bolts for the fascia out, and put it through the hole in the relay, and back in. It clears the hood just fine, and no water seems to be getting in there.

http://www.kettering.edu/~finl4388/pics/relay.jpg

Up by the (+) accessory terminal, I have a 15amp inline minifuse that runs the fan under my head unit, and I tapped into it for the (+) in to the relay.

I only had to use the relay on the driver's side of the car. I've been trying to think of a way to put it in one of the normal relay locations, but haven't quite figured it out yet. I have no more A/C, so I suppose I could make use of that.

[bbriand]

Think your DRL modifications will work on a '01 SC2?

Bill

[bbriand]

Does anyone have the proper pin outs for a Saturn with DRLs? I think I figured out what the pin numbers are on the relays but I'd like to double check. Sure beats blowing fuses and/or headlight bulbs!

Bill

[LB_BlueVue]

Just did this mod on my '03 Vue. .:grnjump:
Took a little longer, as the Vue is apparently wired differently than other Saturns. The big difference is that, though the headlamps have their ground switched, the corner marker light is hot wire switched. This only changed the wiring slightly, but the change is quite important.
On my '03, here's the wire colors that matter:
Pink: High Beam ground (switched)
Blue: Low Beam ground (switched)
Brown: Marker HOT (switched)

NOTE: the turn signal lamp ALSO uses a brown wire. They look identical. Be sure to use the MARKER lamp, not turn signal. Also, it is a 18-20 guage wire, so the "add-a-tap" splices will not work properly (at least the ones I've seen only do 14-16 guage).

Don't forget to fuse the +12 Volt feed you'll need. Here's a link to my drawing: Diagram (http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/10555/password//sort/1/cat/548/page/1)

[creepyrat]

thanks for the diagrams, that will be very helpful

[adamkob32]

I tried this a while ago and it didn't work for me. I do have a question. Do you leave all the stock wiring the same? Like you don't cut the stock ground cables, you leave them connected? Please let me know. Might have been what I was doing wrong.

[2000 SL 1.9]

great post! thanks for sharing!

[leonards]

I
Wolfman,
have a '93 5-speed SL2 with DRL's but here in Canada the DRL's are the flashers, not the headlights. How will it affect the wiring?

Thanks,
Len

[Kevin94SL]

I'm looking at the same thing with a '94SL1. DRL's are the innermost set of lights, these are used as the turn sig's.

[zippy_LiL_sL1]

this is what I see on my 2000 SL1 DRL Relay. Someone plz explain what all this means.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v328/saturnstud2000/DSCN0785.jpg

[wolfman]

Originally posted by zippy_LiL_sL1
this is what I see on my 2000 SL1 DRL Relay. Someone plz explain what all this means.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v328/saturnstud2000/DSCN0785.jpg

30= POS power supply (to what you want to turn on) the 30 indicates it is a 30 amp relay. Can handle a current load up to 30 amps)

87 What will GET that power once the relay is tripped

87a What will GET that power when the relay is NOT tripped

86 1/2 of the trip circuit (can be EITHER POS or NEG)

85 The other 1/2 of the trip circuit can also be EITHER POS or NEG but MUST be the opposite polarity of the 86 terminal for the relay to be tripped.

[the_skin_eater]

ok, will this wurk if i disable my drl's??? or does this only kick in when i turn the lights on..by the way, i got same problem as the 2 up above, my drls are my brights..(well, not now, i switched the bulbs)

[sierrap615]

Originally posted by the_skin_eater
ok, will this wurk if i disable my drl's??? or does this only kick in when i turn the lights on..by the way, i got same problem as the 2 up above, my drls are my brights..(well, not now, i switched the bulbs)

it should work with disabled drls, but don't just remove the relay, short it out so the right hi beam works to.(i know there is a how-to around here somewhere,can't remember who posted it).

don't know what happens with drls enabled

[the_skin_eater]

Originally posted by sierrap615
it should work with disabled drls, but don't just remove the relay, short it out so the right hi beam works to.(i know there is a how-to around here somewhere,can't remember who posted it).

don't know what happens with drls enabled

ya, thats wut i was gonna do. thanx for the input, I will let ya know soon if it wurks or not.

[sdbarker]

So, what exactly is it going to take to get this mod to work on a 2001 SC2? I presently have the DRLs short-circuited.

-Scott

[webxfx]

I would like to announce the introduction of the Hi-Ho hi/lo modification from L300Boy inc. As you probably have decided, $20 is an outragous amount of money for this modification.

We offer several trim levels for under $7 DOLLARS!

Hi-Ho Classic:

This is our classic version of the ever popular Hi-Lo beam modification. Enough to modify several vehicles with black or grey interior. $6.98

http://www.tapemonster.com/master3.cfm?WhichOne=23&cata=Duct%20Tape

Hi-Ho Special:

The Hi-Ho Special is of the same quality of the Classic, but matches tan interiors. $4.25

http://www.tapemonster.com/master3.cfm?WhichOne=121&cata=Duct%20Tape

Hi-Ho Sport:

The Hi-Ho Sport offers the quality of the Classic, but with the color Yellow. In addition to activating both high and low beams, it also gives your vehicle a sporty look and 5% performance increase*! $4.25

http://www.tapemonster.com/master3.cfm?WhichOne=25&cata=Duct%20Tape

Are you for real? :tounge:

[webxfx]

Just did this mod on my '03 Vue. .:grnjump:
Took a little longer, as the Vue is apparently wired differently than other Saturns. The big difference is that, though the headlamps have their ground switched, the corner marker light is hot wire switched. This only changed the wiring slightly, but the change is quite important.
On my '03, here's the wire colors that matter:
Pink: High Beam ground (switched)
Blue: Low Beam ground (switched)
Brown: Marker HOT (switched)

NOTE: the turn signal lamp ALSO uses a brown wire. They look identical. Be sure to use the MARKER lamp, not turn signal. Also, it is a 18-20 guage wire, so the "add-a-tap" splices will not work properly (at least the ones I've seen only do 14-16 guage).

Don't forget to fuse the +12 Volt feed you'll need. Here's a link to my drawing: Diagram (http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/10555/password//sort/1/cat/548/page/1)

I don't get why you are using the marker light in all this....

very nice picture....

[sierrap615]

if the low beams are always on with the high beams, DRL is a problem as they use the high beams. the way around this so the low beams are on with the highbeams and sidemarkers.

[joshjani]

What size fuse do I out in the fuse holder? It's a 30 amp relay- do I put a 30 amp fuse in?

[Vertigoomg]

After 8-hours of ghetto-rigging this SOB, I've decided to just ghetto-rig it even further, because the whole thing is starting to PISS ME OFF.

1. The Fog/driving light kit wasn't at Wal-mart. Got a 4-wire adapter. NO RELAY. MORON! (I'm the moron, btw... nobody else...)

2. Got the relays and wiring. Didn't know how to connect them properly. F___.

3. Got some **** to connect them right. Got it rigged up and blew SOMETHING when I turned the engine over. F___

So now this is my plan: Run the power to my parking lamps, use the low-beams as the switch, highs as lamp, and ground it to chassis. Hook the power and ground wires to fog lights, so the fog lights will now by DRL's. Only problem with this is that I won't have DRL's with only parking lights on. Damn.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[micah_sl2]

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/670000-670999/670301_255_full.jpg

[sierrap615]

ow that hurt my eyes!!!

FYI in some areas having more then 4 lamps on is illegal (lows=2, highs=2, fog=2, total=6, be careful when you use them all together)