2003 v6 Vue p0128 code

[majacoby]

I'm new to SaturnFans.com. I am glad to see a WEB site like this out here!
I need a little help on locating tech info on fixing some problems I am having with our 2003 V6 Vue.

I have a OBDII error code p0128 which the Saturn deal recommends replacing the ECT sensor. The temp gage in the vehicle has not changed it's reading. Same as it was before the code was set. I cleared the code once and it came back the next day. I have seen the threads on replacing the ECT on the 4 cylinder engines.
Where is the ECT sensor located on this 2003 V6 engine?

I'm a fan of the Haynes Repair manuals but, haven't seen anything on the Vues.
Does anyone know of some repair manuals out for the Vue?

Any help welcome!
Thanks, Jake

[3point14]

The same code popped up on my 03 V6 Vue on Saturday night. It sounds like there is an evil henchman in Saturn headquarters that remotely activated 1000s of these sensors to bring in more service repair money for the dealership :D.

When I found out what the code was yesterday, the first thing I did was check my coolant fluid levels. So far there has been noting irregular about my gas mileage, idle speed or time it takes to warm up; but it has been less than two days since the "Service" light came on. I also wondered if it could be the fact that I was putting my engine under more stress than usual from constantly starting and stopping the engine on Saturday (I was moving into my new place which was a mile down from my former residence). Some causes I have found from typing "P0128" into Google was:

-insufficient coolant fluid levels
-faulty ETCS
-faulty thermostat
-cracked thermostat housing

If you have an extended warranty, the TSB for the P0128 code is as follows:

#03-06-02-002 - (Mar 20, 2003)
Insufficient Heat, SERVICE ENGINE SOON (MIL) Telltale On, DTC P0128 Set (Replace Thermostat Assembly)
2002-2003 Saturn VUE and L-Series Vehicles with 3.0L Engine (VIN R -- RPO L81)

I hope that some of this information helps. Keep in mind that I am no mechanic by any means, just very talented as using Google :)

[majacoby]

The fluid levels were good.

Some of the troubleshooting I have seen said either the thermostat or ECT.

Does anyone know if the temp gage has it's own sensor or does it read off of the PCM?

If the gage has it's own sensor, then the gage readings I am seeing says the the thermostat is working correctly. Nothing has changed as far as normal operating tempatures reading on the gage. This then point to the ECT.

The parts person @ the Saturn dealer ask some of the mechanics what they do for this code. the mechanic said that with the conditions I described they would change the ECT sensor as well as the plug and wiring harness that was a repair bulliten from a few years back.

Does this sound correct to the rest of you?

Thanks, Jake

[scotsman]

The same code popped up on my 03 V6 Vue on Saturday night. It sounds like there is an evil henchman in Saturn headquarters that remotely activated 1000s of these sensors to bring in more service repair money for the dealership :D.

When I found out what the code was yesterday, the first thing I did was check my coolant fluid levels. So far there has been noting irregular about my gas mileage, idle speed or time it takes to warm up; but it has been less than two days since the "Service" light came on. I also wondered if it could be the fact that I was putting my engine under more stress than usual from constantly starting and stopping the engine on Saturday (I was moving into my new place which was a mile down from my former residence). Some causes I have found from typing "P0128" into Google was:

-insufficient coolant fluid levels
-faulty ETCS
-faulty thermostat
-cracked thermostat housing

If you have an extended warranty, the TSB for the P0128 code is as follows:

#03-06-02-002 - (Mar 20, 2003)
Insufficient Heat, SERVICE ENGINE SOON (MIL) Telltale On, DTC P0128 Set (Replace Thermostat Assembly)
2002-2003 Saturn VUE and L-Series Vehicles with 3.0L Engine (VIN R -- RPO L81)

I hope that some of this information helps. Keep in mind that I am no mechanic by any means, just very talented as using Google :)

Although I too have a 2003 Vue AWD V-6 that has had no problems so far I did just have this same type of problem with my 2000 SL2 which was fixed last Friday. The SES light/ code indicated a problem in the evap system. The fix for the code in the TSB was to replace the thermostat. Apparently a very simple part that plays a larger role in the overall scheme of things. Also, I've heard of pre Honda pwrd Vue's having this thermostat issue from time to time from Saturn Technicians.

[Bigdaddy94sc2]

The parts person @ the Saturn dealer ask some of the mechanics what they do for this code. the mechanic said that with the conditions I described they would change the ECT sensor as well as the plug and wiring harness that was a repair bulliten from a few years back.

Does this sound correct to the rest of you?

Thanks, Jake


No it doesnt. That bulletin was for EVAP codes coming with no leaks found. It was to replace the Tstat, ECT, and possibly connector if corroded. On the L and VUe V6's, that code is for a thermostat. Plain and simple. It means that in 2 consecutive trips, the coolant failed to reach NOT within a certain amount of time. It takes into account the outside temp too. 99.9% of the time, the thermostat fixes the problem.

[gizelda196]

I believe this is a plot because I just had my SES light coded at a Chevy dealer and low and behold the PO128. I can not afford to fix this right now. I have dumped over 1200 in repairs and tires in the last couple of months. Vue is running fine will this be an issue?

[gizelda196]

I also got a po318 rough road sensor. What the heck does that mean?

[ssicarman]

3.0 LT VUE or L-Series with a P0128. The cure is to replace the thermostat. Period.

This code is part of our normal winter activities. Weather gets cold we get SES lights with P0128.


TSB for the code



Subject: Insufficient Heat, Service Engine Soon (SES) Light On, DTC P0128 Set (Replace Thermostat Assembly) #03-06-02-002A - (02/02/2005)

Models: 2002-2003 Saturn VUE Vehicles with 3.0L Engine (VIN B - RPO L81)

2002-2005 Saturn L-Series Vehicles with 3.0L Engine (VIN R - RPO L81)



Condition
Some customers may comment on the SES light coming on and may notice insufficient heat from the heater. When this condition occurs, DTC P0128 may be set and stored by the Engine Control Module (ECM).

Cause
The thermostat opening and regulating engine coolant at a temperature below specification may cause this condition.

Correction
To diagnose and correct this condition, follow DTC P0128 diagnostics for the Saturn L-Series or VUE L81 V6 engine. 2002-2003 VUE, 2002 L-Series , 2003-2004 L-Series, or 2005 L-Series. Replace the thermostat assembly.

[ssicarman]

I also got a po318 rough road sensor. What the heck does that mean?



DTC P0318




Circuit Description
Correct engine misfire detection is dependent on whether or not the vehicle is experiencing a rough road condition. A rough road condition will cause unexpected crankshaft fluctuations, especially when the torque converter clutch is in its lockup state. In order to detect a rough road condition, the ECM will use vehicle speed information from the right front wheel speed sensor (RFWSS) available on both ABS and non-ABS vehicles. On ABS vehicles, the electronic brake and traction control module (EBTCM) sends the engine control module (ECM) RFWSS signal information over the controller area network (CAN) link. On non-ABS vehicles, the ECM receives this information over a discrete wire from the wheel speed signal conditioner module. This module converts the AC signal from the RFWSS to a square wave by momentarily grounding the vehicle speed signal circuit. The ECM contains an internal 12-volt pull-up voltage, supplied to the vehicle speed signal circuit necessary to detect a square wave of 0-12 volts. DTC P0318 will set if the ECM does not detect a sufficient rough road signal based on the vehicle speed from the RFWSS when the vehicle is traveling in 4th or 5th gear for a certain length of time. If the ECM does not receive a rough road signal, it will not detect misfire.

[majacoby]

OK, you all have me talked into changing the thermostat.

Does anyone have a step by step instructions on replacing the thermostat on a 3.0 V6 Vue?

I know I have to pull the intake to get to new stat. I'm hoping that the intake is O-ringed like most of the newer vehicles and don't need to replace the rings.

Any info welcome from thermostat changers.

Thanks, Jake

[gizelda196]

DTC P0318




Circuit Description
Correct engine misfire detection is dependent on whether or not the vehicle is experiencing a rough road condition. A rough road condition will cause unexpected crankshaft fluctuations, especially when the torque converter clutch is in its lockup state. In order to detect a rough road condition, the ECM will use vehicle speed information from the right front wheel speed sensor (RFWSS) available on both ABS and non-ABS vehicles. On ABS vehicles, the electronic brake and traction control module (EBTCM) sends the engine control module (ECM) RFWSS signal information over the controller area network (CAN) link. On non-ABS vehicles, the ECM receives this information over a discrete wire from the wheel speed signal conditioner module. This module converts the AC signal from the RFWSS to a square wave by momentarily grounding the vehicle speed signal circuit. The ECM contains an internal 12-volt pull-up voltage, supplied to the vehicle speed signal circuit necessary to detect a square wave of 0-12 volts. DTC P0318 will set if the ECM does not detect a sufficient rough road signal based on the vehicle speed from the RFWSS when the vehicle is traveling in 4th or 5th gear for a certain length of time. If the ECM does not receive a rough road signal, it will not detect misfire.

SO, I have to replace my thermostat and my engine is misfiring? I was thinking it is because my sway bar is broken yet again.Geez it just gets worse with this car. Am I hurting it by driving it right now? I am so BROKE from repairs I just made on it. Never mind my oil bill for this month and taxes were due the first.jinkies. Thanks for the explanation I really appreciate it.

[majacoby]

I found the step by step info needed to replace the thermostat on another thread.

Thanks to everyone that replied.

Jake

[3point14]

I'm taking my VUE in on Monday to get diagnosed. I would take a stab at doing it myself, but I can't find a free moment this time of year. That, and also the fact that my rightful place is in a classroom and not under a car. If the thermostat needs to be replaced, I might throw a new set of plugs and wires in (might as well considering the intake will be already removed). I am also having the tranny fluid changed and the radiator might need to be flushed considering the build up of "the illustrious brown goo" that could mean oil is finding its way in my radiator (I hope it's not a busted head gasket). I might even have the fuel filter changed while the car is up on the lift. Wow, my backside is gonna hurt after the mechanic and the IRS get done with me. :cry:

[coolgreany]

ssicarman said "3.0 LT VUE or L-Series with a P0128. The cure is to replace the thermostat. Period.
This code is part of our normal winter activities. Weather gets cold we get SES lights with P0128."

Sorry, but now I'm confused. Is it a problem or not? Or should we just ignore the SES light and code? You seem to imply cold weather causes this every year and the remedy is to replace the Thermostat. Surely that's not the case (an annual replacement of the Thermostatat)?

[ssicarman]

Sorry, but now I'm confused. Is it a problem or not? Or should we just ignore the SES light and code? You seem to imply cold weather causes this every year and the remedy is to replace the Thermostat. Surely that's not the case (an annual replacement of the Thermostatat)?


Normally replacing the thermostat once will fix the problem. The ECM is seeing that the t-stat opening and regulating temp is below spec.

I am not saying that we see the same car(s) in year after year with this code and have to replace the t-stat each year. I am saying that once the weather gets colder we see cars come in with the code due to weak t-stats. It is not like we do nothing but t-stats with the onset of colder weather but we certainly don't see this code in the summer like we do in the winter.

[coolgreany]

Thanks ssicarman. So should it just be ignored in winter or is it actually doing damage? Is there anything else it could be (especially since I have already had a thermostat changed).

Is there anything I can do to make sure I get a "strong" part in if I have it repaired again or can I expect to be in the dealer for this again 20-30k miles from now?

[gizelda196]

The temp in boston is finally above 26 degrees and my SES light mysteriously went out ideas any one? I have not repaired my Vue yet. the SES light is gone. no over heating, no change in the heater, no change period. light just turned off.

[termite]

I just went through the same thing! I also have a 2003 V6 Vue and got the
P0128 last Friday morning. I have the extended warranty so I was able to have the dealer replace the thermostat earlier today!

[majacoby]

I picked up a thermostat housing from Advanced Auto. That's the only way Advanced sells the 3.0 Vue thermostat . I also had picked up an ECT from the local Saturn dealer before tearing down.
.
After tearing apart the engine to replace the thermostat I found out the the thermostat housing from Advanced was different. Where the 2 bolts go in to hold the housing in place, the bosses were not as thick as the original. The one from Advanced was .250 inch thick and the original was .750 inch. That would have been fine if the bolt holes in the block would have been taped and drilled the whole way through. Bolt bottomed out! So instead of finding some kind of spacer I picked one up from Saturn and took the Advanced back which was a STAT unit. Turns out they were only a few cent difference in price.

Then after I went to replace the ECT and the threads on the sensor were different than the one in the Vue. So I didn't change the ECT.

Bottom line. I replaced ONLY the thermostat and have not had a code P0128 set since and that's been 2 weeks of every day driving.

Like the man said above, for a P0128 chance the thermostat first!

Thanks to all who replied.
Jake

[coolgreany]

[QUOTE=majacoby;1008033]I picked up a thermostat housing from Advanced Auto. That's the only way Advanced sells the 3.0 Vue thermostat . I also had picked up an ECT from the local Saturn dealer before tearing down.
.
Where did you get the instructions and how long did it take? Any problems? Would you recommend for the average DIYer?.

[majacoby]

[quote=coolgreany] Where did you get the instructions and how long did it take? Any problems? Would you recommend for the average DIYer?.

The instructions came from Alldata.com
( http://www.alldata.com/vehicle_owner/index.html ). I had to join to use the 2003 Vue manual for one year. I figured @ $14.95 a year it was better than taking it to the dealer!

Time wise, it took around 5 hours after I had the tools I needed. The most important tool I needed and didn't have was a 1/4" drive T-30 Torx with a 6" long 1/4" extension. I picked up a 34 piece Master Torx set @ Tractor Supply for $20. Nice set! I already have a lot of Torx sockets and bits but, Murphy's law, not the one I needed!

Hope this helps you out!
Jake

[GreenBayVue]

I'm new to SaturnFans.com as well. I am glad to see a WEB site like this out here with so many tips and other good folks.

I believe I may have this same problem. Service Engine Soon came on solid when the cold weather hit, and hasn't disappeared as the temperature has increased since.

From what I read here, possibly the thermostat. I wonder, would simply unplugging the battery to reset the internal CPU not also solve the issue, if in fact its just stuck and the thermo is actually functioing..Given that my temp gauge hasn't done anything abnormal, I feel more inclined to give this a shot first..thoughts, experiences???

BTW...i noticed in this post and others alot of people referring to 'OBDII error codes'...is there a device out there reasonably priced that one can buy and use on there on to troubleshoot themselves..and if so, how do you hook it up?


Thanks! :)

[tsj9197]

my girlfriend has a 02 v6 awd vue.
it had the p0128 code on it shortly after we bought in january of 07.
the dealer we bought it from replaced the thermostat and it went away.
now that its gotten colder, the p0128 code has popped up again.
is the solution to replace the thermostat AGAIN??
or would some other sensor be at fault? air temp or coolant temp.
i've read of other people replacing the thermostat multiple times and not correcting the problem.

so either someone made a huge batch of crappy thermostats
or the ECU is too sensitive to pulling the code
or there is another sensor that is going bad.

which is it?

Todd

[coolgreany]

Join the club. Our 02 Vue Thermostat was replaced under warranty at approx 18K and the code returned the first winter after the warranty expired. It is now an annual occurrence and I refuse to pay ~$500 for a new thermostat!!!

[Gerry Proctor]

Clearing the code by disconnecting the battery will not "fix" the problem. As soon as you start the car and drive it when temps get to 40 degrees or so, the light will come on again at about the 10 mile point.

If you have access to a scanner that reads live data, you can hook it up when the engine is stone cold and look at the intake air temp sensor and the coolant temp sensor readouts. If they are the same, then you do not have a sensor issue. The computer is only processing the data. If the thermostat is bad, the data will show that it did not reach a minimum operating temperature in the time/distance reference.

There is an updated thermostat/housing assembly. $70.00 plus labor if you can't do it yourself.