Why Don't You Want a Mexican VUE?

[spencerb]

Poll speaks for itself.

[Tom92SCm]

I don't see a VUE fitting my vehicular needs after I retire my current one. If I was going to buy another VUE once it goes south of the border, I don't know if that fact would influence my decision or not.

[montrealvue]

Am I missing something? All of your questions assume that Saturn buyers only want American built cars. What difference does it make where the next Vue is built? Are you implying that it will be poor quality because it is made by Mexicans? :hmpf: Your view of Mexican quality is a outdated if that is the case. I wouldn't assume GM is trying to line their pockets either, such a decision is to stay in business. I can assue you that the same parts would go into an American built Vue as opposed to a Mexican built Vue. To answer your question, though irrelevant on many levels, yes, I would buy a Vue built in Mexico.

[twosaturns]

Poll speaks for itself.

exactly.

we might ask GM, why do they want to build the VUE in mexico?

[spencerb]

Am I missing something? All of your questions assume that Saturn buyers only want American built cars. What difference does it make where the next Vue is built?

I gathered the poll choices from other people's comments in threads discussing the move of the VUE production to Mexico.

To answer your question, though irrelevant on many levels, yes, I would buy a Vue built in Mexico.

The question isn't asking if you want a VUE built in Mexico. It's asking for the reasons you don't want it built there. If you don't care, then the poll isn't for you.

I personally have no problem with the production moving to Mexico, so I didn't answer my own poll. But I am still curious as to the specific reasons why others do not want the move.

[99blacktop]

I don't think I'd let the "made in Mexico" influence my decision without seeing proof of poor build quality. But, like most people, I wonder who they think is going to buy these cars when nobody in the US has a job anymore.

From the poll: "GM won't pass the production cost savings on to the consumers"

Is GM making a profit today? I don't think so. It's not like they are moving to Mexico to make more money, they are simply trying to stop losing money.

On the flip side, are the foreign companies building cars in the US passing their cost savings on to the consumers? I think not. The US companies have to build outside the US to save on wages/benefits, while the foreign companies come here to save import tariffs. Did Mercedes and Hyundai drop billions of dollars to build plants in Alabama for the warm fuzzy feeling of selling cars to Americans with a "made in the USA" sticker? No, they spent the money to make money.

At least that is the way I see it.

[Dorian]

Personally, where a car is built has no impact on my purchasing decision. However I am concerned that the US is losing its manufacturing and production base and moving to a services based economy. Superpower level presence is based on a production style economy. We are losing our edge.

But then, is it really a big deal if the country I live in is not a super-power? That's a tough question to dig into.

[Ollie]

But, like most people, I wonder who they think is going to buy these cars when nobody in the US has a job anymore.
.

This is probably more geared towards the politics forum.....but it's one of those things - does GM go out of business at the whim of the UAW....just like the issues airlines are plagued with...or do they stay in business and find other alternatives of manufacturing? Maybe that should be the pole?

[Speedy]

I basically answered "all of the above." Every job moved to another country hurts Americans. The quality of the Vue WILL suffer. GM is certainly taking advantage of the Mexican worker. All of the original principals of Saturn are virtually gone today, Mexican Saturns are just nails in the coffin at this point. I could care less if GM makes one cent in profit, but no matter their financial situation, they will never pass savings along to the consumer. Spring Hill manufacturing of Saturns is almost a moot point now that the employees' unique Saturn deal is gone and no more vehicles with "plastic" doors will pass down the line. Bye-Bye different cars built by a different car company. Hello Euro-trash built in 3rd world situations!

[rossao1]

I don't buy in to the "if you can't beat 'em going 'em." Philosophy.

Saturn is (was?) an IMPORT FIGHTER! Else what is the point?!? Who want's to change the "Saturn Corporation" name to GEO, Opel, or Oldsmobile?

Now, what I see is a mass consolidation coming. "Welcome to THE GM car Company!" And the more blended the brands become, the easier it will be, because everyone knows that we now live in a "world economy". :( :tear:

But I will keep fighting to make things domestically.

[Dorian]

I could care less if GM makes one cent in profit....

There are lots of folks around here that make that statement. All I can do is shake my head in wonder. How can anyone question a company's business decisions if they state, "I could care less if company X ever makes a profit." Although car purchases and customer loyalty are extremely emotional issues, if you think a company can exist long term while never making a profit you are either dillusional or quite a creative book-keeper. If you don't care if a company ever makes a profit then how can you think your argument about their business practices carries any merit?

Where their vehicles are manufactured is a business decision. They aren't having the vehicle manufactured in Mexico just to create an environment for debate.

[mellissam]

This sounds like a 'protectionist' thread. Protect jobs for the centre of the universe! HaHa. Money goes where it is cheapest...simple economics. The good old blue collar and the odd white collar jobs are going where a biz gets more bang for the buck. Its globalization, and I am a fan. Sure, some may say money exploits, but it also levels the playing the field....in time Mexico will become too expensive and off go the jobs to another third world country...In some respects, I am happy the jobs aren't going to the far east, but staying closer to home (North America). I don't think there will be the same Q&A issues as in the past....they will make sure the Vue is built to the same standards as in SH. I feel for SH, and what will become of it, but if they can land some other manufacturing job, I will be happy for them. When I bought my Vue, the origin of manufacture didn't really enter my mind. I later found out a good chunk of the car was 'made' in Canada! LOL I was looking for value and a good warranty, both of which I got. GM realized this, and bumped up the warranty length. :)

[jdmessner]

All of the above and then some!

The only Mexican made product that I will knowingly purchase is Tequila.

My company shifted their repair center and production center operations from the US to Mexico in 2003. They laid off 3700 American workers in favor if the lower wages and tax savings afforded by NAFTA. Thank you so much President Bubba.

This great cost saving move has proven an unmitigated disaster. Our post-move sales have dropped by 60%, our customer complaints have risen by 300% and our repeat repairs from our depot have increasedby 200%. To add insult to injury, they off-shored our help desk and call center operations to the Czech Republic and India. Now, when you call for technical support, you cannot understand the person on the other end who's supposed to be helping you. Concequenly, we are being aquired by a competitor at 1/3 our 2003 stock value and are expecting a further round of layoffs. It's not just us.

Have you called Dell tech support lately? India. DirecTV? India. American Express Customer Service? India.

All these American Jobs have been shipped overseas to where the companies can legally pay the workers pennies a day and get the same production that they could expect from American employees. The downside is customer satisfaction is at an all time low and the loss of jobs are affecting other industries as well (support industries such as cleaning services, office equipment maintenance etc are going out of business because all of their clients are leaving).

I am a firm beleiver in protecting jobs here in America. But the all mighty dollar will rule the day so companies will take the jobs to where the costs are the least.

I worry for my children. What industry will be left for them to work in here in America if it's all been shipped overseas.

Honda may well be a foreign owned company, but they employ MANY of my neighbors and friends back home. The plant in Marysville is a source of community pride and has saved that section of Ohio from economic collapse. GM can go suck sausages for their decision to close Spring hill.

[sixsigma]

Maybe it is because I am getting older but it is more and more important to me to buy American. You may think of me as a hypocrite as I have not done so in 20 years. However, I vowed to buy American when we replace my wife's SUV and my sedan. To me it is key to keep the jobs here. There is one other reason for the change - I truly believe the cars are now competitive. Before I bought from overseas because I believed they were better.

Then we started looking at cars. The 300C is built in Canada, the Fusion in Mexico, while the Aura, Accord, Camry, and Sonata are built here. So we had to determine whether we want to support the management or the workers. We chose the workers so we will be buying cars that are made here in the States.

Looking at the SUV's that will suit us, the CR-V and new VUE are the two top choices. Both made here. One made by GM. Simple. As long as I like the drive, that was to be our car. Now I just have to find a sedan and we are done! Whoops! Reality check. Imagine the SHOCK to find out that it is not an American made car. How's this for irony - For me to buy a nice, mid-sized SUV, made in America - I have to buy a Honda?:no:

[s-seriesguy]

Where is the check box for all of the above? Sorry I'm not going to support a vehicle that was intended as to compete against imports, but it is now being built in a foreign county. That looks really good as an American brand.:rolleyes: As far as I'm concerned it's not a Saturn, just cookie cutter crap like the Outlook.

[pisulino]

Maybe it is because I am getting older but it is more and more important to me to buy American. You may think of me as a hypocrite as I have not done so in 20 years. However, I vowed to buy American when we replace my wife's SUV and my sedan. To me it is key to keep the jobs here. There is one other reason for the change - I truly believe the cars are now competitive. Before I bought from overseas because I believed they were better.

Then we started looking at cars. The 300C is built in Canada, the Fusion in Mexico, while the Aura, Accord, Camry, and Sonata are built here. So we had to determine whether we want to support the management or the workers. We chose the workers so we will be buying cars that are made here in the States.

Looking at the SUV's that will suit us, the CR-V and new VUE are the two top choices. Both made here. One made by GM. Simple. As long as I like the drive, that was to be our car. Now I just have to find a sedan and we are done! Whoops! Reality check. Imagine the SHOCK to find out that it is not an American made car. How's this for irony - For me to buy a nice, mid-sized SUV, made in America - I have to buy a Honda?:no:


SixSigma,
That is a nice intention of yours. However, it really doesn't matter if you buy a car made in America or not. Selling more "made in America" cars will not secure jobs in America. It's all about globalization and the end justifies the mean. Toyota and Honda will have a percentage of their production in NA to ensure they meet quotas arranged with the government and to ensure locals do not boicot their products. Most of the development, design and parts will be either still made in Japan or Asia.
95% of the products you purchase on a daily basis are made outside North America.
Today, you have to buy what is good for you and you alone.
Japanese and other Asian car makers will have just the right presence to secure the sales of their products in that particular country.
Best Buy, Home Depot, Wal-Mart, etc sale products from Asia and 10% of local products...so what you do?
Sorry but protectionism is just an illusion that cannot be achieved.

[montrealvue]

I worry for my children. What industry will be left for them to work in here in America if it's all been shipped overseas.



I have the same concerns here in Canada. Though I feel globalization is the only way to stay in the market, what bothers me most is the cost is always local jobs. So after the smoke clears and we can buy shoes fot $5.00 at Walmart and a 60" flat screen TV at Best Buy for $900, what will be left? Retail jobs? Hardly something you wanna look forward to for your children. I certainly fear for mine!

Though President Bubba isn't the hero of the day for creating jobs, neither is Happy-Go-Lucky-Harper up here in Canada either. I believe if corporations have to "buy" cheap labour elsewhere, goverment is still responsible to ensure jobs are created and protected. In the global economy, I don't blame GM for their decisions. However, I DO blame our gov'ts for not ensuring our resources are protected and our economy is not threated by these decisions.

[twosaturns]

good concerns all. it is not just hard, but IMPOSSIBLE to buy some products american made. shoes? nope. clothing? haven't seen any. hardware, faucets, plywood, audio, video, is ANYTHING made here? I enjoy 'made in America' w/ John Ratzenburger, but have you noticed it's only a 1/2 hr show? all great companies profiled, but they are for the most part, smaller cottage industries. I try to buy American, w/ tools there IS a difference (makita, ryobi, etc. are CRAP), but you can't go by brand alone anymore. Milwalkee and Ridgid tools used to be American only, but when they wanted to get into cordless stuff, they had to mix it up a bit. I guess home depot made them an offer they couldn't refuse. btw, more than 51% of home depot stock is own by the chinese.
so anyway, I don't think I'll buy a mexican VUE. maybe we'll be able to afford a BMW X3 (built in South Carolina!)

[kodak_jack]

All of the above and then some!

The only Mexican made product that I will knowingly purchase is Tequila.

My company shifted their repair center and production center operations from the US to Mexico in 2003. They laid off 3700 American workers in favor if the lower wages and tax savings afforded by NAFTA. Thank you so much President Bubba.

This great cost saving move has proven an unmitigated disaster. Our post-move sales have dropped by 60%, our customer complaints have risen by 300% and our repeat repairs from our depot have increasedby 200%. To add insult to injury, they off-shored our help desk and call center operations to the Czech Republic and India. Now, when you call for technical support, you cannot understand the person on the other end who's supposed to be helping you. Concequenly, we are being aquired by a competitor at 1/3 our 2003 stock value and are expecting a further round of layoffs. It's not just us.

Have you called Dell tech support lately? India. DirecTV? India. American Express Customer Service? India.

All these American Jobs have been shipped overseas to where the companies can legally pay the workers pennies a day and get the same production that they could expect from American employees. The downside is customer satisfaction is at an all time low and the loss of jobs are affecting other industries as well (support industries such as cleaning services, office equipment maintenance etc are going out of business because all of their clients are leaving).

I am a firm beleiver in protecting jobs here in America. But the all mighty dollar will rule the day so companies will take the jobs to where the costs are the least.

I worry for my children. What industry will be left for them to work in here in America if it's all been shipped overseas.

Honda may well be a foreign owned company, but they employ MANY of my neighbors and friends back home. The plant in Marysville is a source of community pride and has saved that section of Ohio from economic collapse. GM can go suck sausages for their decision to close Spring hill.

Excellent response! How true it is for the majority of manufacturing jobs in the US. Everything is moving to Mexico or China and the quality from each is garbage. Our company used to do world-wide audits and Rochester had the best quality and, dispite labor rates, was the cheapest because rework and customer complaints were the lowest. It didn't matter what facts showed, management and the board of directors decided for us. Ask people who own HHR's what they think of Mexican-made car quality. Were US GM workers allowed to take a wage cut to save their jobs? Management decided for them.

[JPG]

You are missing some choices....Like "Don't Care" .... Ask yourself why they are going to Mexico....You know the answer, big fat pension plans, boosted salaries, and the list goes on....


<---Me goes hide in the corner and put the flame retardant suite on

[1saxman]

Other; 'All the above'.

[talonsaab]

The quality of the new Vue will be much better than the 2007 model. The quality is engineered in from the beginning. Tighter gaps, better fit and finish, superior noise control (NVH), handling...etc. The fact that its built in Mexico means nothing. The Avalanche is made in Mexico and it just won 2007 AJAC truck of the year. The fact that GM saves money building it there actually does pass on to the consumer as it allows for more content and better materials to be used. A healthy, more profitable GM will allow future programs to be even better.

[gstien]

Look, as a Fleet Manager, I try to buy american because I really have no choice. I'm with the gov't and they bid mostly american cars.
I bid 15-25 cars at a time.
But what I get stuck with is a vehicle with poor build quality, and problems galore.
I have Jeep Liberty's that aren't even a year old, and they have 3 recalls on them. One for underhood fire, and one for loss of steering!
I have 4 year old Dodge Rams that have given me fits since we got them.
Last year it was air conditioners, this year it's heaters.
The only vehicles I do have that are reliable are Fords.
I know some of their stuff is built in Mexico, but apparently mine aren't.
If they were, the quality is good enough to hold up for abuse day after day.
The 6 year old Fords are JUST NOW having problems...after 6 years of hard driving we finally have problems with them.
Now that's what I want in a car, at least 6 years of service before I get problems.
These newer batch of american made cars are just killing me.
I would hate to think what I would do if this was my money that I paid for these crappy vehicles with!
I for one just want a vehicle with a good build quality, that has a good 5 years at least in it, with little or no problems.
Can a mexican vehicle give me that promise?
I get the fact that the UAW is killing the US automakers.
Well do something about it, before the UAW drives you out of business.

[frostypanic]

Two Saturns,

Hate to burst your bubble about Milwaukee and Makita, Makita makes more tools in the US than any other power tool company. The reason, Black and Decker(Dewalt) sued Makita for dumping product in the US, so Makita manufactures tools in Duluth GA and is the biggest electric motor manufacture in the US. Now Dewalt has moved everything to Mexico, don't get me wrong Milwaukee is a great tool and buying your tools from Home Depot is not the best place to buy power tools, check out your local power tool distributor the next time you are in the market. I will never, ever buy any car made outside of the US. I will never, ever buy a foreign vehicle made here or elsewhere. Our manufacturing sector is what made this country what it is today, and our long-term future IMO looks grim, not every american can work in the service industry.

my 2 cents.

Brian

[pd1601]

I vote for "don't care", based primarily on the fact that I intend to keep our '04 for some time to come.

[L100]

Personally, where a car is built has no impact on my purchasing decision. However I am concerned that the US is losing its manufacturing and production base and moving to a services based economy. Superpower level presence is based on a production style economy. We are losing our edge.

But then, is it really a big deal if the country I live in is not a super-power? That's a tough question to dig into.

I think that you want a country that has a manufacturing base and a middle class. Apparently we have a tough time with that concept since we keep reelecting fools that have done nothing but erode the country's industrial base and middle class day in and out. The quality of life will suffer if we completely turn away from manufacturing. It already is. Real per capita income in the US is down for 30 years in a row. Real household income hasn't increased since 2000. All the while, bills are getting higher and real estate is at unaffordable levels.

I usually am able to afford a new car after 6 years of the same vehicle. I can't afford a new car at this point. Wages haven't kept up.

[L100]

The quality of the new Vue will be much better than the 2007 model. The quality is engineered in from the beginning. Tighter gaps, better fit and finish, superior noise control (NVH), handling...etc. The fact that its built in Mexico means nothing. The Avalanche is made in Mexico and it just won 2007 AJAC truck of the year. The fact that GM saves money building it there actually does pass on to the consumer as it allows for more content and better materials to be used. A healthy, more profitable GM will allow future programs to be even better.

Who cares if the American worker doesn't benefit from it? The greedy consumer may benefit in the short term, but as the jobs keep moving away, the American consumer won't be able to afford the trucks that come even from Mexico. What evidence do you have that the Avalanche is better than its Detroit made GM counterparts... ie the pickups?

I agree that we need a healthy GM operating in the United States. I don't want them exploiting cheap labor to make their profits. I'd gladly pay a couple of thousand more to keep the same car in the US.

[jdmessner]

It's nothing more than the latest chapter in corporate America moving to where the labour costs are cheapest.

For any of you old enough to remember, the north used to be vibrant, prosperous and heavily industrial. Places like Cleveland, Detroit, Pittsburgh and Buffalo were huge centers of commerce. Many international companies were headquartered in those cities.

But each of those companies had a problem. Rising costs. Primarily due to strong labour unions and greedy local politicians. Some time in the mid to late '70's, those companies started looking for alternative sources of labour and cheaper taxes. They started to gradually move their production south.

Anyone who was in Charlotte, NC is 1980 can attest to this. It was a modest town of about 200,000 surrounded by pastoral countryside. My family lived outside of town in a small farming community called Matthews, NC. Sometime around 1982, a developer started buying up the farms around us. Eventually, a golf course was put in right in our back yard. Fast forward 20 years and the town of is now part of the Charlotte megalopolis. Why? Because of the move of companies from the heavily taxed north to the lightly taxed south. They also benefited from a labour force that would work alot more cheaply than the old labour force in the North.

Today, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Buffalo are nothing more than rusted shells of their former selves. The jobs are gone. The prosperity is gone. All moved south in pursuit of higher profits.

Soon, the posperity of the 'new south' will wane as well. Taxes are rising steadily as are wages and property values. With the signing of NAFTA, companies can now look for sources of labour even farther south.

This vicious cycle will continue for some time to come. Eventually, only executive jobs will be left in this country. All the labour will be off-shored and the additional profits will be returned to shareholders are larger dividends. Meanwhile, the middle class will cease to exist. We're too 'rich' to qualify for government benefits and too poor to invest in the larger companies.

[twosaturns]

on the radio this morning they were saying how companies are now leaving India, cause it's getting too expensive- imagine that! how long do they think they can pay highly trained people low wages? so the radio guy figured it'll swing back to the US eventually, when we are the cheapest labor force in the world.

[Dorian]

on the radio this morning they were saying how companies are now leaving India, cause it's getting too expensive- imagine that! how long do they think they can pay highly trained people low wages? so the radio guy figured it'll swing back to the US eventually, when we are the cheapest labor force in the world.
There is more truth than humor to that statement by the radio guy. In the 70's a lot of manufacturing of electronics went to Japan. But eventually their labor force became fairly expensive so more of the procution started going to Taiwan, Korea, Malaysia, and Viet Nam. Their line workers are rapidly getting more expensive as they adjust to a better standard of living.

The same will eventually happen in Mexico. Eventually we are going to run out of countries that are simply happy to have full time work, albeit probably not in my life time. Until then manufacturing plants will move to all continents and countries in search of low cost for high return.

Anyone read "Atlas Shrugged" recently?