2008 VUE on Edmunds.com

[thatjerryguy]

Here y'all go:

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=116419#8

:us:

[DesertPuma]

UGH!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

A little European design direction should help the Vue get past its image as nothing more than a family-friendly SUV

Someone please tell me what the ******* is wrong with being a family-friendly SUV!!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the VUE as it is. N O T H I N G !

Saturn is losing it! UGH! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[PontiacLvr]

duplicate post =) :D

[DesertPuma]

duplicate post =) :D


?????

[WLKVUE]

Great. A smaller vehicle, a detuned engine, no polymer sides.:no: All are some of the main reasons why I bought my 2006 VUE. So those clowns believe I will want to buy a 2008? Or are they trying to force me up to an Outlook van, a vehicle I did not want, do not want and will not want. :x

I plan to keep my 2006 FWD V6 VUE as long as possible. Maybe by then someone will start making a vehicle I like. Oh, I already have one.:D

Maybe I should buy a second one and put it in storage until the first one wears out.

[2Fast4U]

Great. A smaller vehicle, a detuned engine, no polymer sides.:no: All are some of the main reasons why I bought my 2006 VUE. So those clowns believe I will want to buy a 2008? Or are they trying to force me up to an Outlook van, a vehicle I did not want, do not want and will not want. :x

Don't worry. The way gm works the next Vue will cost more and get worse gas mileage with the GM engine. Don't know if gm has a 6 spd automatic yet on the market (does the Sky have a 6spd auto) but if there is I'm sure there will be problems galore the first few years.

When you look across gm's entire lineup their vehicles have disgustingly bad fuel efficiency. Even the aveo is no where near where it should be. Saturn historical has had good gas mileage vehicles. Those days are gone as clone city is the future. Bloated overweight poor fuel efficient (compared to Honda or Toyota) vehicles are ahead. GM better pull one of their small size diesel engines out of their pocket if they want to increase fuel efficiency.

[PontiacLvr]

?????

there is a thread already.....

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82970

[cdp326]

Great. A smaller vehicle, a detuned engine, no polymer sides.:no: All are some of the main reasons why I bought my 2006 VUE. So those clowns believe I will want to buy a 2008?
Detuned compared to the application in the Outlook. It'll still be more powerful than the Honda V6 in all likelihood, and it's still going to have the advantage of another gear. If it is indeed smaller (this is all speculation) it'll only be by a few inches. There are vehicles smaller than the VUE that have more interior space.

Or are they trying to force me up to an Outlook van, a vehicle I did not want, do not want and will not want. :x
Nobody's forcing anything on you. The Outlook's not a van, either. You sound like the book Green Eggs & Ham.

Don't worry. The way gm works the next Vue will cost more and get worse gas mileage with the GM engine.
New cars usually increase in price every year. How can you confirm the gas mileage?

Don't know if gm has a 6 spd automatic yet on the market (does the Sky have a 6spd auto) but if there is I'm sure there will be problems galore the first few years.
:rolleyes: You haven't paid attention much. The 3.6 V6 is only being hooked up to the 6 speed auto in Saturns. Do your research first.

When you look across gm's entire lineup their vehicles have disgustingly bad fuel efficiency.
Not really. The Malibu and G6 V6 have more power and better fuel efficiency than the 2005-06 Camry V6 did, and that's with the Camry have the advantage of another gear in the transmission.
The EPA figures can't be taken as fact, either. Do you drive like the EPA test? No A/C, a max of what, 55 mph?...etc.

Even the aveo is no where near where it should be.
The Aveo is a Daewoo, and doesn't have a very efficient engine.

Saturn historical has had good gas mileage vehicles. Those days are gone as clone city is the future.
Other than the Relay, where are these clones?
The ION has more power and gets similar-to-better mileage than the S-Series did 10 years ago.

Bloated overweight poor fuel efficient (compared to Honda or Toyota) vehicles are ahead. GM better pull one of their small size diesel engines out of their pocket if they want to increase fuel efficiency.
:rolleyes: Any facts there? No? OK, moving on.

[kfraney]

:rolleyes: You haven't paid attention much. The 3.6 V6 is only being hooked up to the 6 speed auto in Saturns. Do your research first.



Not so fast my friend...

PONTIAC , Mich. (May 18, 2006) — GM’s plan to offer one million vehicles annually with six-speed automatics by 2008 accelerates in 2006 and 2007 with nearly 40 global vehicle applications of the fuel-saving transmissions. Models of the 2007 Cadillac STS and SRX, as well as the Saturn Aura, Outlook and Pontiac G6, highlight the vehicles offered with new six-speed automatics.

Other models already on sale include the GMC Yukon Denali family, the Cadillac XLR-V, STS-V and Escalade lineup, and the Chevrolet Corvette. GM’s full-size heavy duty pickups are also equipped with an Allison 1000 six-speed automatic when equipped with the Duramax 6.6L turbo-diesel engine.

New 2007 model year six-speed automatic transmission variants include the Hydra-Matic 6T70 and 6T75 for front and all-wheel drive vehicles, as well as the Hydra-Matic 6L50 for rear and all-wheel drive vehicles. The 6L50 benefits from the expertise developed with the larger 6L80 rear-wheel drive six-speed transmission (initially in the 2006 model year), and is the second variant in the Hydra-Matic rear-wheel drive six-speed transmission family.


from: http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/100_news/transmissions_051806.html

[cdp326]

Not so fast my friend...

PONTIAC , Mich. (May 18, 2006) — GM’s plan to offer one million vehicles annually with six-speed automatics by 2008 accelerates in 2006 and 2007 with nearly 40 global vehicle applications of the fuel-saving transmissions. Models of the 2007 Cadillac STS and SRX, as well as the Saturn Aura, Outlook and Pontiac G6, highlight the vehicles offered with new six-speed automatics.

Other models already on sale include the GMC Yukon Denali family, the Cadillac XLR-V, STS-V and Escalade lineup, and the Chevrolet Corvette. GM’s full-size heavy duty pickups are also equipped with an Allison 1000 six-speed automatic when equipped with the Duramax 6.6L turbo-diesel engine.

New 2007 model year six-speed automatic transmission variants include the Hydra-Matic 6T70 and 6T75 for front and all-wheel drive vehicles, as well as the Hydra-Matic 6L50 for rear and all-wheel drive vehicles. The 6L50 benefits from the expertise developed with the larger 6L80 rear-wheel drive six-speed transmission (initially in the 2006 model year), and is the second variant in the Hydra-Matic rear-wheel drive six-speed transmission family.


from: http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/adv_tech/100_news/transmissions_051806.html
Sorry, I worded it poorly. I typed too fast...I meant it as "In Saturns, the 3.6 is only being hooked up to the 6-speed auto." I wasn't saying that only Saturn is getting the 6-speed auto with the 3.6, as that combo is spreading out over many GM models quickly.

[2Fast4U]

:rolleyes: You haven't paid attention much. The 3.6 V6 is only being hooked up to the 6 speed auto in Saturns. Do your research first.


Not really. The Malibu and G6 V6 have more power and better fuel efficiency than the 2005-06 Camry V6 did, and that's with the Camry have the advantage of another gear in the transmission.
The EPA figures can't be taken as fact, either. Do you drive like the EPA test? No A/C, a max of what, 55 mph?...etc.

The Aveo is a Daewoo, and doesn't have a very efficient engine.

Other than the Relay, where are these clones?
The ION has more power and gets similar-to-better mileage than the S-Series did 10 years ago.

:rolleyes: Any facts there? No? OK, moving on.

Where do you want me to start. The current GM Vue clones with GM drivetrains get worse gas mileage and worse horsepower. The tranny in the Sky already has water in it. I don't give a rip who makes the Aveo. GM's best gas mileage vehilces came from freakin Toyota when they were selling Toyota's on their lot but with the name Geo then Chevy. Saturn was next in line with fuel efficiency but fuel efficiency is no longer a sign of Saturn.

Great on the malibu/g6 accord/camry one. Didn't realize those cars were even in the same category. Now compare me a civic or corolla with the equiv GM. Compare me the accord/camry/avalon with the impala or GM equiv.

[cdp326]

Where do you want me to start. The current GM Vue clones with GM drivetrains get worse gas mileage and worse horsepower.
Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about...mainly because there are no clones of the VUE.
Cars get different numbers...the VUE's platform mates, the Equinox and Torrent, don't have the same tricks the VUE's engine has.

The tranny in the Sky already has water in it.
This relates...how? The new 6-speed auto with the '07 Camry V6 already has a recall because it will sometimes lose two of the gears.

I don't give a rip who makes the Aveo. GM's best gas mileage vehilces came from freakin Toyota when they were selling Toyota's on their lot but with the name Geo then Chevy.
See, you're still not doing your research. There was only ever one Geo that was a Toyota--the Prizm, which became a Chevy, then the Pontiac Vibe. The Geo Metro (turned Chevy Metro) was the most fuel efficient. Actually, even more fuel efficient than that was GM's EV1 electric car.

Saturn was next in line with fuel efficiency but fuel efficiency is no longer a sign of Saturn.
No, they're still fuel efficient. If one car doesn't have the same fuel efficiency as another it doesn't mean that one is inefficient.

Great on the malibu/g6 accord/camry one. Didn't realize those cars were even in the same category.
What other class could the Malibu and G6 possibly be in?

Now compare me a civic or corolla with the equiv GM. Compare me the accord/camry/avalon with the impala or GM equiv.
You can do that yourself. There are some cars that are geared high, resulting in bad EPA numbers, and others like the Ecotec I4s that don't really loosen up for a few thousand miles.

[Galileo]

"The new Opel sport-utility – called the Antara – rides on an updated version of the current VUE's Theta architecture...

...High ground clearance, large wheels and robust protective elements all round are defining characteristics of the new Antara, as are its compact dimensions (length x width x height: 4.57 x 1.85 x 1.70 meters). It takes up no more space than a mid-size passenger car, while at the same time offering ample interior room."

Since the Opel Antara and Saturn Vue will be the same vehicle, let's convert and compare those dimensions...

(Conversion of L x W x H: 179.9 x 72.8 x 66.9 inches)

(Current VUE L x W x H: 181.3 x 71.6 x 66.3 inches)

Doesn't look like the 2008 Vue is going to be substaintially smaller to me!


http://www.saturnfans.com/Cars/Future/2008vueantara.shtml

[hasitha]

The current GM Vue clones with GM drivetrains get worse gas mileage and worse horsepower.
Than what? They are bigger than the Vue, and its other competitors. In fact almost as big as the TrailBlazer, but noticably narrower. It gets the same gas milage as a Highlander and (lacks horsepower though) and has a higher towing capacity, and is $5000 cheaper.

The tranny in the Sky already has water in it.
Is that the auto or the manual? The manual is not a GM unit. The only GM manual transmission are the FWD SAAB boxes.

I don't give a rip who makes the Aveo. GM's best gas mileage vehilces came from freakin Toyota when they were selling Toyota's on their lot but with the name Geo then Chevy.
Yep, the best gas milage on a GM car is the Vibe. But I think the rest is just a myth. Their midsize cars are extremely good if not better than the Toyotas in gas milage. The Geo Metro was the best gas milage GM ever and that was made by Suzuki partly owned by GM. The Cavalier with the old iron 2.2 had better mpg ratings than the Prizm.

Saturn was next in line with fuel efficiency but fuel efficiency is no longer a sign of Saturn.
I believe the Vue still is the most fuel efficient small SUV.

Great on the malibu/g6 accord/camry one. Didn't realize those cars were even in the same category.
Yes they are based on the EPA classification.

Now compare me a civic or corolla with the equiv GM.
You are right. I think there's no comparison there.

Compare me the accord/camry/avalon with the impala or GM equiv.

Per autos.yahoo.com:
Impala: 21/31
Camry: 21/29
Avalon: 22/31
Accord: 20/29

[DesertPuma]

I showed that Spy Pic to my wife and her reaction was the same as mine. She wrinkled her nose and said "eww that's awful!". I also informed her that it won't have Polymer, and her answer was "why not?" All I could do was shrug my shoulders, because, I still don't understand why not, and never will, everyone can give me all the lame excuses, arguments, etc. in the world. It still makes no sense to me.

Add 1 more "thumbs down" to the opinion tally.

[MJD1001]

It is hard to tell, as with any camo/spy picture.

However, I'm liking what I see. I think this has potential to be nicer than our 04 Vue.

BTW, the 6 speed auto/3.6 engine in the 07 Aura and 07 Pontiac G6 is rated at 20city, 28highway.

I'd expect the Vue with the same engine/tranny to be very close to that, maybe 1 mpg worse due to aerodynamic concerns.

Also, don't forget that they are going to start to make versions of the 3.6 next summer with Direct Injection. I'm not sure if the initial versions of that will be reserved for Cadillac or not. However, a HOPEFUL possiblity would be that the new Vue will have a 4 cylinder, a 250 hp 3.6 for an upgrade, and the redline getting the Direct injection 3.6 with about 20 more horsepower.

[cdp326]

I showed that Spy Pic to my wife and her reaction was the same as mine. She wrinkled her nose and said "eww that's awful!". I also informed her that it won't have Polymer, and her answer was "why not?" All I could do was shrug my shoulders, because, I still don't understand why not, and never will, everyone can give me all the lame excuses, arguments, etc. in the world. It still makes no sense to me.

Add 1 more "thumbs down" to the opinion tally.
Any car looks bad with that much camo on it. You think they're going to drive around with the car open for anybody to see, a year before it's going to go on sale?

[walt]

If it ain't plastic , I'm not interested. Ill drive my 06 till the wheels fall off. :upset:

[MJD1001]

If it ain't plastic , I'm not interested. Ill drive my 06 till the wheels fall off. :upset:

A part of me misses the plastic body panels too...however, I'll take the 5 years newer technology, 6 speed automatics, more safety equipment...basically pretty much everything that is newer and better with a new model...as long as it looks decent too.

[DesertPuma]

Any car looks bad with that much camo on it. You think they're going to drive around with the car open for anybody to see, a year before it's going to go on sale?

No offense, but are you a GM apologist? :hmpf: You seem to be the biggest defender of all this bad news. Like I said, no offense, just wondering.

And yes, it's bad news to me no matter how you slice and dice it. No Polymer, no sale. I still think all of this is going to hurt Saturn in the long run, but time will tell.

[kfraney]

I'm curious what all the "if the VUE isn't going to have polymer panels, then I'm not buying it" crowd is going to purchase as their next vehicle?

[DesertPuma]

I'm curious what all the "if the VUE isn't going to have polymer panels, then I'm not buying it" crowd is going to purchase as their next vehicle?

A used VUE. Because that will be the only choice, that or hang on to the one you already have for as long as possible (my plan). By the time it dies, maybe polymer will be back (hopefully).

(I never thought it would go away in the first place, never even considered the possibility, I mean Saturn has something really great, why ******* it up? I don't understand this. :upset: )

[montrealvue]

I love my '06 V6 Vue, but after what I've seen, I am pretty sure its my last Saturn SUV. The next generation will be smaller and the the Outlook will be too big, have a much higher MSRP and be too expensive on gas. Disappointing as Toyota and Honda have read the market better and have increased the size of their small SUV's and are more fuel efficent then their predecessors. Also, they still offer larger alternatives like the Highlander and Pilot. I am not exactly a fan of Toyota or Honda but I will buy what makes sense. So far, I think Saturn may be going the wrong direction with the SUV's. Just my 2 cents.......

[Galileo]

The next generation will be smaller and the the Outlook will be too big, have a much higher MSRP and be too expensive on gas....
Smaller? Just because Edmunds thinks the next VUE will be smaller doesn't mean that it will be... did you see my post above comparing the size of the current Vue to the '08 model (using dimensions posted here at Saturnfans for the Opel Antara)? The next generation Vue will be 1.4" shorter, 1.2" wider, and .6" taller... do you really think you'll notice the difference? I just read today that the '07 CR-V will also be shorter and wider as well. Also, the Outlook, with it's 6-speed transimission and high-tech 3.6L V6, will get mileage similar to the 3.5L Vue. I also read that the next generation Highlander will be on the Avalon platform so it will be larger as well... sounds like GM is moving in the SAME direction as the Japanese now, doesn't it?

[MJD1001]

I love my '06 V6 Vue, but after what I've seen, I am pretty sure its my last Saturn SUV. The next generation will be smaller and the the Outlook will be too big, have a much higher MSRP and be too expensive on gas. Disappointing as Toyota and Honda have read the market better and have increased the size of their small SUV's and are more fuel efficent then their predecessors. Also, they still offer larger alternatives like the Highlander and Pilot. I am not exactly a fan of Toyota or Honda but I will buy what makes sense. So far, I think Saturn may be going the wrong direction with the SUV's. Just my 2 cents.......

The new Rav4 has almost the exact same dimensions as the current vue. IF the new Vue is indeed smaller, it will be by a very little ammount. They should still be very similar in size.

Either way, still shares a platform with the Equinox and Torrent...both of which are larger than both the current Vue and the new Rav4...and both will be getting transmission/engine upgrades.

Of course, maybe some people here are so bitter about losing polymer that they would rather go to a Toyota or Honda to 'spite' gm than stick with a GM product.

[mellissam]

Smaller? Just because Edmunds thinks the next VUE will be smaller doesn't mean that it will be... did you see my post above comparing the size of the current Vue to the '08 model (using dimensions posted here at Saturnfans for the Opel Antara)? The next generation Vue will be 1.4" shorter, 1.2" wider, and .6" taller... do you really think you'll notice the difference? I just read today that the '07 CR-V will also be shorter and wider as well. Also, the Outlook, with it's 6-speed transimission and high-tech 3.6L V6, will get mileage similar to the 3.5L Vue. I also read that the next generation Highlander will be on the Avalon platform so it will be larger as well... sounds like GM is moving in the SAME direction as the Japanese now, doesn't it?

If we take your measurements at face value, the new VUE will be bigger than today's redition. The new car gains more because it is wider 1.2" x L - 1.4" x W + 0.6" taller (WxL)= larger car, provided the thickness of the sides and roof stay the same....

[Ritz]

I'm curious what all the "if the VUE isn't going to have polymer panels, then I'm not buying it" crowd is going to purchase as their next vehicle?

Ultima GTR. It even gets about the same mileage....and no metal panels. :)

http://www.ultimacars.com/

Cheers,

[Galileo]

If we take your measurements at face value, the new VUE will be bigger than today's redition. The new car gains more because it is wider 1.2" x L - 1.4" x W + 0.6" taller (WxL)= larger car, provided the thickness of the sides and roof stay the same....
Car & Driver pointed out the fact that the Vue is larger on the outside but smaller inside compared to the Ford Escape. The reason lies mostly in the spaceframe / polymer skin construction of the Vue. With the next generation being a traditional unibody / steel skin vehicle, it stands to reason that the Vue's interior will most likely be roomier while keeping similar size on the outside. :yes:

[K-1]

If we take your measurements at face value, the new VUE will be bigger than today's redition. The new car gains more because it is wider 1.2" x L - 1.4" x W + 0.6" taller (WxL)= larger car, provided the thickness of the sides and roof stay the same....
An inch here or there makes little to no difference visually. The RAV4, however, grew several inches to accomodate an unnecessary and useless third row.

The new VUE will still ride on the same 106.6" SWB Theta platform ('Nox and Torrent are 112.5" LWB Thetas). Edmunds, MotorTrend, Car & Drivel, etc. all spout the same misinformation thinking the VUE is the same size at the 'Nox/Torrent. People need to do their own research.

[1saxman]

From what I can see, not something a good VUEish boy like me would want to bring home to meet Momma. I bet the '06s and '07s go UP in value after this thing hits the street.

[K-1]

From what I can see, not something a good VUEish boy like me would want to bring home to meet Momma. I bet the '06s and '07s go UP in value after this thing hits the street.
Not likely. This new version will have a wider audience than the current one.

[cdp326]

No offense, but are you a GM apologist? :hmpf: You seem to be the biggest defender of all this bad news. Like I said, no offense, just wondering.
:rolleyes: No I'm not...am I not allowed to like GM? I'm not "defending" really...I'm simply not closed-minded, and I accept change and move on. :yes: I can look at the total picture and see and accept the reasons that these changes (or "bad news" as you put it) are occurring.

I love my '06 V6 Vue, but after what I've seen, I am pretty sure its my last Saturn SUV. The next generation will be smaller and the the Outlook will be too big, have a much higher MSRP and be too expensive on gas. Disappointing as Toyota and Honda have read the market better and have increased the size of their small SUV's and are more fuel efficent then their predecessors. Also, they still offer larger alternatives like the Highlander and Pilot. I am not exactly a fan of Toyota or Honda but I will buy what makes sense. So far, I think Saturn may be going the wrong direction with the SUV's. Just my 2 cents.......
Well, the VUE's size has already been covered--it's already pushing the compact SUV billing, and other smaller SUVs are larger inside. The RAV4 didn't have the choice to get smaller given its size before and the fact that other competitors have larger cargo holds.
But have you heard the rumor that the new 2007 CR-V may actually be a bit smaller inside?
Not sure where the fuel-efficiency has to do with the VUE yet. Nothing's been said about what it's likely to get, and isn't 2008 the first year for the new EPA mileage procedures?
The RAV4 has effectively canceled out the Highlander. There is no reason to get a Highlander when the RAV4 isn't much different in space yet is cheaper and has more features. The Highlander is also one of the oldest models in Toyota's lineup--it came out in 2001 and hasn't had much change as it carries into the 2007 model year, IIRC. Luckily the Highlander has the Hybrid models to keep it from being completely canceled out. The next Highlander will likely be much larger to keep it separated from the RAV4.

[dadavue]

I am a great fan of non dent polymer doors, I am a nonconformist with practical utilitarian tastes which Saturn fulfils for me. However, I think that GM has learned over the years that most consumers don't care for it and they have listened too much to biased criticism from Consumer Reports which constantly trashes the wider gaps required between panels as poor quality workmanship and turned a deaf ear to the need for contraction and expansion of the polymer.

I think I've heard that all polymer cladding on all Saturn's new models is in danger of eventual extinction. I too would like to grab another one before they go away.:) :us:

[BobbyP]

Car & Driver pointed out the fact that the Vue is larger on the outside but smaller inside compared to the Ford Escape. The reason lies mostly in the spaceframe / polymer skin construction of the Vue. With the next generation being a traditional unibody / steel skin vehicle, it stands to reason that the Vue's interior will most likely be roomier while keeping similar size on the outside. :yes:

In most all dimesions the VUE is already larger than the Escape. ??? I don't think Car and Driver has their facts in order... The new RAV4 is larger, faster, and gets better gas mileage than the current VUE.

Exterior Dimensions & Weight
Vue FWD V6 Escape XLT FWD
Curb Weight - Automatic (lb.) No data 3300
Wheelbase (in.) 106.60 103.10
Length (in.) 181.30 174.90
Width (in.) 71.60 70.10
Height (in.) 66.30 69.70
Track Front (in.) 61.00 61.30
Track Rear (in.) 61.00 60.90
Ground Clearance (in.) 8.00 8.20

Interior Dimensions
Vue FWD V6 Escape XLT FWD
Standard Seating 5 5
Optional Seating No data No data
Front Headroom (in.) 40.60 40.40
Rear Headroom (in.) 40.40 39.20
Front Legroom (in.) 41.30 41.60
Rear Legroom (in.) 36.50 35.60
Front Shoulder Room (in.) 54.70 56.30
Rear Shoulder Room (in.) 54.70 55.90
Front Hip Room (in.) 51.80 53.40
Rear Hip Room (in.) 52.60 49.10

Payload & Towing
Vue FWD V6 Escape XLT FWD
Passenger Volume (cu. ft.) 100.00 99.20
Cargo Volume (cu. ft.) 30.80 29.30
Standard Towing (lb.) 3500 2000
Max Towing (lb.) 3500 3500
Standard Payload (lb.) 1416 1200
Max Payload (lb.) 1416 1200
Standard GVWR (lb.) 4894 4500
Max GVWR (lb.) 4894 4500

[walt]

I'm curious what all the "if the VUE isn't going to have polymer panels, then I'm not buying it" crowd is going to purchase as their next vehicle?
Sadly many of us will cross the line and buy the larger size Escape or Tribute. Some will cross over to Honda and Toyota. Many of us want a mid size SUV with power and since the VUE will be a compact SUV with a less performing V6 than in its current state why would one want to hang around just to buy a nameplate. How you take you largest selling vehicle and scrap it in beyond my reasoning. Even if you wanted to keep the VUE in its current state and built it beside Chevy and Pontiac like its metal cousins would be acceptable to some ,but to sacrifice the VUE to give its larger brother a market IMO is another GM blunder.

[montrealvue]

What ever happened to "don't knock it til you try it" ? So far, the next gen. Vue has only been announced on paper.....no one here has driven one! How can an opinion be formed when they haven't got behind the wheel of the new Vue?

To say "gimme polymer or gimme death" is ridiculous, most people didn't come to buy the car because of polymer so it was no longer a selling point. With the cost of oil the way it is, steel is cheaper than polymer. Also, auto steel is more rust resistant than than it was prior to 1992. I doubt most will even notice the difference....

[Ritz]

What ever happened to "don't knock it til you try it" ? So far, the next gen. Vue has only been announced on paper.....no one here has driven one! How can an opinion be formed when they haven't got behind the wheel of the new Vue?

To say "gimme polymer or gimme death" is ridiculous, most people didn't come to buy the car because of polymer so it was no longer a selling point. With the cost of oil the way it is, steel is cheaper than polymer. Also, auto steel is more rust resistant than than it was prior to 1992. I doubt most will even notice the difference....

Polymer is important to me for a few reasons:

it's dent resistant
it won't corrode *ever* (important for us snow belt people)
it implies a stronger "space frame" design since the body panels do not provide any structural rigidity

So for me, the lack of polymer doesn't rule the new model out, since you're correct in pointing out that rust through isn't the problem it once was, but provides several strikes. The fatal strike, at least for me, is that the engine is going to be replaced with a GM V6 with lower output than the currently available 3.5L Honda power plant. GM's musical power plant games with the VUE are a bit silly. I'm thankful that I've got a reliable engine in MY VUE, but I can't help but get a chuckle out of the keystone cops situation with the powerplants for the VUE or the lack of forsight in radically altering their best selling vehicle.

I guess we'll see how things go soon since it's already a fait accompli. I'll be curious to see which force ends up being stronger...the old timers who get disgusted and balk at the new concept or newcomers that would never have bought in to the old style Saturn concept and become new customers. Obviously, GM seems to feel that the latter will be dominant. I'm not so sure.

Cheers,

[Ritz]

doh...double post...the server is acting very strangely lately.

[Galileo]

The fatal strike, at least for me, is that the engine is going to be replaced with a GM V6 with lower output than the currently available 3.5L Honda power plant.
Lower output? What? The 3.6L puts out MORE horsepower & torque than the current 3.5L engine :hmpf: Plus, it will most likely be mated to the new 6-Speed transmission which is worlds better than the current 5-Speed auto transmission. :yes:

[Ritz]

Lower output? What? The 3.6L puts out MORE horsepower & torque than the current 3.5L engine :hmpf: Plus, it will most likely be mated to the new 6-Speed transmission which is worlds better than the current 5-Speed auto transmission. :yes:

The currently available information I have about the Opel Antara shows 3 engines available:

* 2.0 L turbodiesel I4, 150 hp (112 kW) (developed with VM Motori) - 5-speed manual
* 2.4 L Ecotec I4, 142 hp (106 kW) (from Holden) - 5-speed manual
* 3.2 L Alloytec V6, 225 hp (168 kW) - ActiveSelect automatic

Yours is the first mention I've seen of the 3.6L in the 2008 VUE while we KNOW what is being mated to the Antara now. If you have more accurate information, I'd be curious to know where you got it.

Lastly, I think it's unlikely they'd use the Cadillac version of the 3.6 as it has a compression ratio of 10.2 to 1, which would mean the notoriously frugal Saturn customers would have to step up to premium gas. If the 3.6L is to be used, it is far more likely to be the variant currently used on the LaCrosse, which only outputs about 240hp.

Cheers,

[montrealvue]

I have to agree with you Ritz, GM's engine and tranny games have been a bit silly. I mean, while other manufacturers seem to build one engine and improve upon it. GM just pulls it out and puts in another one. I know, its not their fault right, Joe Public wants more hp. and GM has to deliver. I for one will sadly miss the Honda V6 when its gone. Its the best thing they could have done for the Vue and in my opinion saved it from an early extinction. I am hoping the new 3.5 and 3.6 engines will be as sweet as what I have in my '06 V6 now, but its a damn tough act to follow.....:ugh:

[cdp326]

Sadly many of us will cross the line and buy the larger size Escape or Tribute.
The Escape and similar are smaller on the outside.

Some will cross over to Honda and Toyota.
With no optional V6 on the '07 CR-V (maybe in the future), how many do you think?

Many of us want a mid size SUV with power and since the VUE will be a compact SUV
It already is a compact SUV.

with a less performing V6 than in its current state why would one want to hang around just to buy a nameplate.
Who says it'll be less-performing? Plus, the likely 3.6L/6-speed auto combo has the advantage of another gear over the current powertrain.

How you take you largest selling vehicle and scrap it in beyond my reasoning. Even if you wanted to keep the VUE in its current state and built it beside Chevy and Pontiac like its metal cousins would be acceptable to some ,but to sacrifice the VUE to give its larger brother a market IMO is another GM blunder.
The Outlook would be fine regardless, because it's already much larger than the VUE.

The currently available information I have about the Opel Antara shows 3 engines available:

* 2.0 L turbodiesel I4, 150 hp (112 kW) (developed with VM Motori) - 5-speed manual
* 2.4 L Ecotec I4, 142 hp (106 kW) (from Holden) - 5-speed manual
* 3.2 L Alloytec V6, 225 hp (168 kW) - ActiveSelect automatic

Yours is the first mention I've seen of the 3.6L in the 2008 VUE while we KNOW what is being mated to the Antara now. If you have more accurate information, I'd be curious to know where you got it.
No, it has been mentioned elsewhere before, and rumors on other sites, saying it'll be the 3.6L. So we don't have any hard evidence...what makes you think what the Antara has is hard evidence of what the VUE will get. When does the US get the exact same powertrains as other markets? They rarely do. Who cares what's being mated to the European model? You could get a GM minivan with an Ecotec I4 nearly a decade ago in Europe (Opel/Vauxhall Sintra), but did that mean we'd see a Chevy Venture with that engine here? You can get a Mazda CX-7 with a 6-speed manual in Europe, too...doesn't mean we'll see it. Come on.

Lastly, I think it's unlikely they'd use the Cadillac version of the 3.6 as it has a compression ratio of 10.2 to 1, which would mean the notoriously frugal Saturn customers would have to step up to premium gas. If the 3.6L is to be used, it is far more likely to be the variant currently used on the LaCrosse, which only outputs about 240hp.

Cheers,
Ever hear of the Saturn Aura 3.6L at 252 hp? Or the Outlook at, what, 265-267 hp? And how often is premium gas a requirement?
Please think logically about this. (But then, you also thought the next VUE is going to start at at least $30k because of the Antara....)

[Ritz]

(But then, you also thought the next VUE is going to start at at least $30k because of the Antara....)

You are going out of your way to misrepresent my post. I was merely summarizing the content of another site that claimed to have the inside scoop on the new VUE.

It won't be long before we'll know for sure. All this hopeful banter about how it could be is just that. I find it difficult to believe that the new VUE will offer the same powertrain as the Cadillac CTS, but we shall see.

Lastly, at 10.2 to 1 compression on the CTS iteration of the 3.6L, there is no way you'll get anywhere close to rated power using 87 octane fuel. So if you want 250+ HP that would seem to make premium fuel a requirement or your knock sensor will enforce lower output for you.

Cheers,

[K-1]

Hmm.. premium in the 3.6L, eh? Seems to me the only engine in the CTS that calls for premium is the 6L LS2 small-block. Every iteration of the 3.6L (2.8L, 3.2L included) has always called for regular. You think GM can get away with a stated 250+hp number with the new SAE standards using premium for the test? I think not.

[K-1]

It won't be long before we'll know for sure. All this hopeful banter about how it could be is just that. I find it difficult to believe that the new VUE will offer the same powertrain as the Cadillac CTS, but we shall see.The Equinox and Torrent will be getting the 3.6L in their uplevel trims pretty soon. I don't find it very hard to believe the new VUE having access to it too.

[kfraney]

Are you gentelmen saying that the 3.6 liter in question is a Northstar engine?

[K-1]

Are you gentelmen saying that the 3.6 liter in question is a Northstar engine?
Nope. The 3.6L has nothing to do with the N*, it's just that it was a Caddy exclusive for a while.

[Mach1]

What has happened to Saturn Design? Please tell me that they are not changing the 2007 Vue , which is very sharp looking! Is this photo of a 2008 Vue a JOKE :no: ???? Look up the 2007 Maza CX-7 exterior (as a matter of comparison)....Very stylish! I do not understand how Saturn plans to GROW with these kind of poor design concepts. Go out and see the competition, and take a good look at futuristic design. Again, a long Saturn fan, dissapointed by GM interferernce . There's got to be someone listening at Saturn!!!!!! :no: :no: :no: Oh well:eek:

[K-1]

What has happened to Saturn Design? Please tell me that they are not changing the 2007 Vue , which is very sharp looking! Is this photo of a 2008 Vue a JOKE :no: ???? Look up the 2007 Maza CX-7 exterior (as a matter of comparison)....Very stylish! I do not understand how Saturn plans to GROW with these kind of poor design concepts. Go out and see the competition, and take a good look at futuristic design. Again, a long Saturn fan, dissapointed by GM interferernce . There's got to be someone listening at Saturn!!!!!! :no: :no: :no: Oh well:eek:
The new VUE has gotten a hotter reception than the 2002 and 2006 renditions combined. It'll sell quite nicely.

[PontiacLvr]

I think that the new vue will be a hit ??

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/08_saturn_vue_int_500.jpg

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/08_saturn_vue_rl_f34_500.jpg

[Ritz]

The new VUE has gotten a hotter reception than the 2002 and 2006 renditions combined. It'll sell quite nicely.

We'll know soon enough.

[cdp326]

You are going out of your way to misrepresent my post. I was merely summarizing the content of another site that claimed to have the inside scoop on the new VUE.
...So does the Edmunds site, and it echoes what all other signs point to: the 3.6L V6 as the V6 powerplant.

It won't be long before we'll know for sure. All this hopeful banter about how it could be is just that. I find it difficult to believe that the new VUE will offer the same powertrain as the Cadillac CTS, but we shall see.
You're missing the point. The 3.6L isn't solely for Cadillac anymore--it started there because of the cost of the engine being more expensive; hence, the cost is coming down as more models get it and production is increased.
There are two Buicks that have it--that we know. However, you're still forgetting that several new products are getting it--'07 Pontiac G6 GTP, Saturn Aura XR, Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia, and so on.
The Aura and G6 with the 3.6L are in production, and while I don't know if the G6 has hit lots yet (it likely has), the Aura is definitely out. Why is it so hard to believe? The 3.6L is already certified for the US--who knows if the 3.2L is?

Lastly, at 10.2 to 1 compression on the CTS iteration of the 3.6L, there is no way you'll get anywhere close to rated power using 87 octane fuel. So if you want 250+ HP that would seem to make premium fuel a requirement or your knock sensor will enforce lower output for you.

Cheers,
Anyone know what the Aura/G6/Outlook/Acadia recommend?

[Ritz]

Anyone know what the Aura/G6/Outlook/Acadia recommend?

Actually, it looks like I'm mistaken. According to this site, the CTS recommends regular:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/15/126716.html

Cheers,

[K-1]

Actually, it looks like I'm mistaken. According to this site, the CTS recommends regular:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/06/15/126716.html

Cheers,
Correct. ;)

GM could easily push the 3.6L over 300hp with just a compression boost and requiring premium fuel. That won't be necessary once the DI engine hits though - 300hp+ easy, on regular.

[MJD1001]

What has happened to Saturn Design? Please tell me that they are not changing the 2007 Vue , which is very sharp looking! Is this photo of a 2008 Vue a JOKE :no: ???? Look up the 2007 Maza CX-7 exterior (as a matter of comparison)....Very stylish! I do not understand how Saturn plans to GROW with these kind of poor design concepts. Go out and see the competition, and take a good look at futuristic design. Again, a long Saturn fan, dissapointed by GM interferernce . There's got to be someone listening at Saturn!!!!!! :no: :no: :no: Oh well:eek:

Actually, I'll disagree with your opinion on this. We owned a 2004 Vue, and will be looking at another second vehicle sometime next year. From what I have read and hears and seen of the upcoming redesign, the 2008 Vue is, at the moment, at the top of our list.

Of course, we'll have to see the final product. But if the new Vue can have a 260+HP V6, 6 speed auto, be around $25k (moderatly equiped, I'd be happy with FWD and no leather if it means keeping at that price piont), and get mid 20's combined fuel economy, I'm pretty sure that is what we'll get.

Of course, I'd spring a little more Money for the Redline version if it actually gets a little more power than the regular V6 Vue. Frustrating to get the current redline and pay $2000 more for the package, and have it be actually a bit slower than a non-redline version because of the extra weight of the bigger wheels and ground effects...with the exact same power.