Saturn is replacing engine on Vue due to f/up

[eileen]

Short and sweet: took my Saturn Vue in today for oil change at Saturn dealer.Drove ~ 2miles;noted car making clanking noise. Returned to dealer; they found no oil in car. Apparently someone forgot to replace it. They topped off fluids. Told by manager: car is running fine. Drove again a couple miles; still running bad. Returned again to dealer. Now told that engine is shot and they will replace. I asked if it would be a "new engine" as first I was told they would provide a remanufactured engine. Now they are saying it will be new. Question: how will I know it is a new engine? Does anyone know if I need to be aware of any potential problems getting a remanufactured engine?
Thanks!!!:upset: :upset:

[twosaturns]

depends on whose doing the remanufacturing. how old is your VUE? if it's already a few years old, getting a NEW engine might not happen, depends on how loud you get w/ them. that's just pathetic that they 1st tried to just top off fluids. suprising they were able to drive it out of the garage to you. ALSO- it shows they didn't have someone else check the level- even jiffy lube does that!
on 2nd thought, I'd demand a new engine, and then never go to that dealer again.

[burnout]

You can't demand a new engine, you'll just be lucky if you get one. If its a honda engine (you haven't said what kind yet) it will probably be new. If its one of the older motors (vauxhall V6 or ecotec) they can probably find a reman one pretty easy.

[Leland Lehman]

Short and sweet: took my Saturn Vue in today for oil change at Saturn dealer.Drove ~ 2miles;noted car making clanking noise. Returned to dealer; they found no oil in car. Apparently someone forgot to replace it. They topped off fluids. Told by manager: car is running fine. Drove again a couple miles; still running bad. Returned again to dealer. Now told that engine is shot and they will replace. I asked if it would be a "new engine" as first I was told they would provide a remanufactured engine. Now they are saying it will be new. Question: how will I know it is a new engine? Does anyone know if I need to be aware of any potential problems getting a remanufactured engine?
Thanks!!!:upset: :upset:



WOW!!! what a bummer! You have my sympathies, best of luck

[BobbyP]

I hope the dealer is providing you with comparable transportation while they replace your engine! Unfortunately to err is human... Just hold your ground and stay on top! I have confidence they'll make good on their mistake.

[bk63]

That's a pretty bad screw up. I would talk to them before they replace the engine to see what they have planned and get a new one if at all possible.

[SaturnTech]

Your engine wasn't new when it was brought to the dealer...why should it be new when it leaves? This screw up is absolutely their fault but to be honest the only thing they would be liable to do would be to replace the motor with one of LKQ. They could find a used engine with comparable miles and install it and really how could you complain? Nothing wrong with a reman engine if they are going to warranty the part and installation. Of course a fresh engine is always better, but the chances of them getting you one are slim. Seems like you're trying to get something for nothing to me. How many miles on your Vue when you brought it in to them?

[twosaturns]

people talk a lot about getting a car serviced at the dealer only, b/c they are trained, know the car, blah, blah, blah. now, a trained dealer screws up like everyone says happens at quicky places. this woman is now supposed to trust the same people to rebuild an engine!?! I think I would be o.k. w/ a reman engine, w/ a warranty, but what else are they going to do to win her loyalty back? they've already tried to worm their way out of accountability, how about going 'above and beyond' to prove they won't make that mistake again?

[Uzzy]

people talk a lot about getting a car serviced at the dealer only, b/c they are trained, know the car, blah, blah, blah. now, a trained dealer screws up like everyone says happens at quicky places. this woman is now supposed to trust the same people to rebuild an engine!?! I think I would be o.k. w/ a reman engine, w/ a warranty, but what else are they going to do to win her loyalty back? they've already tried to worm their way out of accountability, how about going 'above and beyond' to prove they won't make that mistake again?
It's happened at my dealer, to a SAAB. It does happen, no matter where you go, but very rarely. Every place has a "shop idiot". Guess which jobs he gets to do?

[eileen]

I appreciate all the information...I asked about a new engine after the technicians tried to explain to me what a "remanufactured engine" was...I was told some parts are new some not. After my experience with the oil change...didn't make me feel too confident. I was also told that "no one" gets a new engine as they don't have them. The manager also told me that my engine wasn't "new" when I brought it in, and that is correct. But he was also the guy who told me my car was "running fine" after the "top off". He also told me that "someone would be fired", which also seems to be a way to pacify the customer, though doesn't help me at all.
Trust is the issue here for me. And because I am not familiar with an engine, I want as much information as I can. I told the manager that I was getting information for myself and he later called to tell me that I would be getting a new engine with a 3 year warranty. I don't think that is asking too much to restore trust. This is my 3rd Saturn and I have not had any problems taking my cars to this dealer for service for 10 years.:)

[Uzzy]

But the burning questions still remain. Which engine? How many miles? It wouldn't be the Honda 3.5L or the dealer is feeding a line. There are new ones of those, and they call for complete replacement for issues as simple as head gaskets, or intake problems. There are new 2.2L available, but again, your old one isn't new either. It's probably a a 3.0L and having a re-built engine ain't such a bad thing. It does suck that there was nothing really wrong with the old one, until of course what happened. :hmm:

[eileen]

You are right and prove my ignorance in this whole thing. I guess I don't understand why there are no "new engines" of certain types; that was new to me. Is it because they stop making them? And even though mine wasn't new (~ 38, 000 miles) I had maintained my car as recommended and did not have any problems. I guess there are no real guarantees regardless so I can only hope for the best!

[wolfman]

I'm still wondering how she managed to "hear" an unhappy engine with "NO OIL" in yet, yet failed to see the OIL LIGHT on start up or before she got 2 miles the first time....:dizzy:

[Uzzy]

I'm still wondering how she managed to "hear" an unhappy engine with "NO OIL" in yet, yet failed to see the OIL LIGHT on start up or before she got 2 miles the first time....:dizzy:
The SAAB owner didn't either. :no:

[twosaturns]

I'm still wondering how she managed to "hear" an unhappy engine with "NO OIL" in yet, yet failed to see the OIL LIGHT on start up or before she got 2 miles the first time....:dizzy:
or how the tech drove it out front for her in the 1st place!

[shenb]

We never did hear which engine you have that has 38,000 miles on it. Walk behind your Vue and on the lower right side is their chrome letters that say "AWD" or "V6" or maybe even "V6 AWD" then all of our questions will have been answered

[Matt42]

If you are offered the choice of a new or rebuilt engine, ask yourself this question: How long are you planning to keep the car? If you are planning to keep it just long enough to get it paid off and then trade or sell, go for the new engine. If you are going to keep it until the wheels fall off, go for the rebuilt engine.

And if that statement makes you say "huh" read on.

Any new engine casting retains casting stresses. Those stresses cause minor but measurable deformation in the block. Machining the bores and other critical areas relieve some of the stresses. But the only thing that relieves all of the internal stresses is a lot of driving. That's called "seasoning." In many racing applications, racing engines are assembled out of seasoned blocks that have been rebored and rebuilt, or remanufactured. That's the way I would go.

[SaturnManiac]

OMG, that's crappy. I can't believe that someone could FORGET to put oil in the car. Besides that everytime I change oil, I ALWAYS check the fluid level, even though I know how much it takes, just to be sure I put enough, and I guess to make sure it's sealed properly and not leaking out, LOL. Changing oil isn't that hard, even a 5th grader could do it.

BTW, I'd also call Saturn corporate and tell them what happened and hopefully you'll get a free gift certificate with so much money that can be used at a dealer....that's what I did when I found out my dealer messed up and didn't really fix my problem.

Hope everything works out. And they better be providing you with some sort of FREE transportation since it was their screw up....if not, I'd definitely call corporate and make a big deal, cause that is a big deal that they killed your engine.

Like wolfman says "Check your damn oil!!!!" The mechanic should've checked it and not just assumed it was full.....assume = ass u me....makes an ass out of you and me, LOL.

[rgroves]

That sucks.

I had a bad experience with a dealer (Dodge). Took my Dodge Dakota in for oil and check up. The tech took it out for the usual test drive, and after about 30 minutes he still was not back. Then the girl at the counter came and called me to the side. She told me the tech had a "slight accident" with my truck.... WTF ?!?!?! A SLIGHT ACCIDENT !!!!! Someone drove me to the accident site. There I saw my truck in a ditch with the driver side fender CRUSHED, and pinned against the tire, and another car with it's rear end crushed in. The stupid idiot, was SPEEDING, went around a corner, locked up the brakes when he saw a school bus STOPPED to load kids, and he tried to swerve and miss hte car stopped behind hte school bus. Well, he didn't, and hit an old lady's car. THe worse thing was it took 3 weeks to fix my truck, and I found out they NEVER reported it to Carfax.

[05vueblue]

Dude you should be happy they didnt report it, than when you sell others will know it was in an accidnt.

A few years a go I helped a buddy out by buying a jasper motor for his 88 cutlass supreme. The intaller told him 500 mile go get the oil changed which he did and good year put 90W gear oil in the engine. They called him 2 days later to admit the mistake and he put 60 miles on the engine. I went in made good year refund the purchase price of the engine 2200 bucks when they did after I got ahold of their headquaters. My buddy wound up driving that engine over 50K before it died and he junked the car. I say hold them to the fire and demand a reman engine, nothing wrong with them, but refuse a junk yard engine!

PS sorry for the about the DAK, I have an 06 which is awesome so glad I traded the vue in on it (yes no longer vue owner, just like the site).

[SaturnTech]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a junkyard motor. You know the mileage of the engine before you get it and if you are dealing with a reputable recycler, there will be a warranty as well. Cars get junked for all sorts of reasons that aren't mechanical. What would be wrong with a junkyard motor out of a Vue that got rear ended and totalled? Absolutely nothing.

[05vueblue]

Well when someone ruins your motor I would not allow for a JY motor, unless it was extreme low miliage. I dont buy used cars for that reason, I want to know how the vehicle was treated as well as service done on the motor. It is up to the owner but I'm sure can get a long block for a good price from Jasper and obiviously reuse manifolds, sesnors and the accessories and such. I agree with your one stement a "reputable recycler". Also a vehicle rear ended can get crank damage (not as bad with a tranverse engine), also what it it was roled over and it ran for awhile b4 is stalled, wouldn't that damage. What about a frontal collision that took out the radiator and the motor ran hot a warrped something? Any way if you trying to save money get a JY motor, but if someone else screws it up, esp a dealer reman should be authorized. I agree you wont get a brand new motor b/c they prolly dont exist anymore. Just my thoughts.

[SaturnTech]

The ONLY thing they are liable to do is replace the motor with one of LKQ. The Vue in question had 38K on it, I'm sure there are low mileage junkyard motors available for it. Saying you "wouldn't allow" them to use a junkyard motor isn't even an option, they are the ones footing the bill. You didn't have a new or reman motor when you came into the dealerhsip, and you won't have one when you leave either. There are a zillion "what ifs" involved with ANY motor swap, be it reman or junkyard, but going over each and every one of them ad nauseum isn't necessary. That's why there's a warranty. Just because a part (engine in this case) is reman. doesn't make it better than something from the junkyard. In fact, in many cases, the reman. unit is a bigger piece of junk than anything that would come from a recycler. Their only commitment to the OP would be to return their Vue in the condition that it came in...with about 38K miles on it. I've installed many junkyard motors at the dealership and never had a problem with one.

[KoolVue]

The only negative that I see about a Junk Yard motor is that you don't really know the history of the engine. Perhaps the engine belong in a car of someone who rarely changed her oil. Say every 8,000 miles instead of every 3,000 miles or negelected other routine maintenace issues. To some people, that would not matter if you received a warranty with the engine. However, with me, I would be willing to foot the billl for the difference between a remanufacture engine before I would allow a junk yard engine installed into my vue.

[sspeer]

The only negative that I see about a Junk Yard motor is that you don't really know the history of the engine. Perhaps the engine belong in a car of someone who rarely changed her oil. Say every 8,000 miles instead of every 3,000 miles or negelected other routine maintenace issues. To some people, that would not matter if you received a warranty with the engine. However, with me, I would be willing to foot the billl for the difference between a remanufacture engine before I would allow a junk yard engine installed into my vue.

Dangerously close to an oil thread LOL :p

At 38K, I don't see how you can demand a new engine (although it never hurts to ask) esecially since it's out of the warranty period...where perhaps they could (unethically) turn it in as something like an oil pump failure or something....

Perhaps they could make you an awesome deal on a 06??? :yes:

[djb383]

Saturnparts.net shows a 3.5L short block for $1801. Seems like a good place to start. Don't know if it's new or reman.

[poncho-mike]

If it were me, I would demand the original engine be re-manufactured. I do my own oil changes to avoid issues like these.

Look at this from a different perspective. I also collect cars, mostly 60s -early 70s Firebirds and GTOs. While the Saturn Vue isn't a collectible car, it could be down the road. The value of a collectible car is greatly diminished when the original block has been replaced by something other than the original block. It doesn't matter if it is the same type of engine. There is only one block originally installed in a car with the VIN stamped in. If your car has that block, then it is numbers matching. Otherwise, it isn't.

In my opinion, the value of the car is diminished once the block is replaced with anything other than the original.

Mike

[bue05]

I suspect if I and or we knew more about this person's vue we would have a better chance/time of offering more help/info.... I know myself personally speaking, if i took my 05 3.5 v6 vue which has 22,000 miles on it and i would be crazy enough to let them change the oil on it.(my own opinion not being rude) and they messed up/screwed up etc the engine. There would be a few things i would expect, and respect. 1. A formal apology, we all are human and make mistakes, acting stupid and lieing about it is anohter thing. 2. A decent and safe means of transportation while repair/servicing was rendered. 3. I would ask, demand, request, or accept two options. A:)Brand New motor from honda/factory/gm wherever they get it. B:)A remanufactured/rebuilt/refurbished 3.5L v6 honda from the honda/factory/gm facility which they originate from. I would not except a junkyard or anyother form of eninge of any sort. I would except that the engine that was rebuilt etc have 22,000 miles or less on it as well. Sorry you screwed up the engine not me. I don't believe in the Im going to sue you for everything society we live in. I would either take the above offers or ask them to keep that vue and lets go find a new vue and work out a deal/difference... tough one! GOOD LUCK! Bue05

[1saxman]

I don't think they've put ID numbers on run-of-the-mill engines since the '50s, so there will be no 'matching numbers'. Let me know if I'm wrong on this - I'd like it if the major components of the drive train were numbered to match, but I don't think they are. Anyway, all they have to do is repair the engine. They must be allowed time to do this if they decide to. Obviously, an engine swap is the most effective way of dealing with it for everyone's sake, but they don't have to. Since the engine damage was the direct result of negligence on the dealer's part, the offer of a new 'crate' engine would seem to be their way of trying to make up for it, and I would take it. It's amazing that the engine didn't make enough noise right away that somebody heard it and shut it down, but it doesn't make any difference. After about a minute with no oil pressure, the crankshaft will be ruined.

[poncho-mike]

Starting in 1969, the blocks and transmissions were stamped with the VIN. Full-frame cars had VIN numbers stamped into the frame, whereas unibody cars had the VIN stamped in a structural location, usually on the cowl panel.

That was a legal requirement to give authorities the means to identify major components from stolen and stripped vehicles. As far as I know, that practice continues today.

Mike