View Full Version : How often should I change my oil?
Bullet
05-21-2006, 12:54 AM
Most vehicle manufacturers recommend changing the oil once a year or every 7,500 miles in passenger car and light truck gasoline engines. For diesel engines and turbocharged gasoline engines, the usual recommendation is every 3,000 miles or six months.
If you read the fine print, however, you'll discover that the once a year, 7,500 mile oil change is for vehicles that are driven under ideal circumstances. What most of us think of as "normal" driving is actually "severe service" driving. This includes frequent short trips (less than 10 miles, especially during cold weather), stop-and-go city traffic driving, driving in dusty conditions (gravel roads, etc.), and driving at sustained highway speeds during hot weather. For this type of driving, which is actually "severe service: driving, the recommendation is to change the oil every 3,000 miles or six months.
For maximum protection, most oil companies say to change the oil every 3,000miles or three to six months regardless of what type of driving you do.
A new engine with little or no wear can probably get by on 7,500 mile oil changes. But as an engine accumulates miles, blowby increases. This dumps more unburned fuel into the crankcase which dilutes the oil. This causes the oil to break down. So if the oil isn't changed often enough, you can end up with accelerated wear and all the engine problems that come with it (loss of performance and fuel economy, and increased emissions and oil consumption).
Oil Analysis
Truck fleets often monitor the condition of the oil in their vehicles by having samples analyzed periodically. Oil samples are sent to a laboratory that then analyzes the oil's viscosity and acid content. Oil is then burned in a device called a spectrometer that reveals various impurities in the oil. From all of this, a detailed report is generated that reveals the true condition of the oil.
Oil analysis is a great idea for fleets and trucks that hold a lot of oil. But most consumers would have a hard time justifying the cost. Having an oil sample analyzed typically costs $12 to $20 for the lab work and report. Most quick lube shops charge $16.95 to $19.95 for an oil change. So why spend your money on a report that will probably tell you your oil needs changing? Just change the oil every 3,000 miles and don't worry about it.
Regular oil changes for preventative maintenance are cheap insurance against engine wear, and will always save you money in the long run if you keep a car for more than three or four years. It's very uncommon to see an engine that has been well maintained with regular oil changes develop major bearing, ring, cam or valve problems under 100,000 miles.
What About The Oil Filter?
To reduce the costs of vehicle ownership and maintenance, many car makers say the oil filter only needs to be replaced at every other oil change. Most mechanics will tell you this is false economy.
The oil filters on most engines today have been downsized to save weight, cost and space. The "standard" quart-sized filter that was once common on most engines has been replaced by a pint-sized (or smaller) filter. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a smaller filter has less total filtering capacity. Even so, the little filters should be adequate for a 3,000 mile oil change intervals -- but may run out of capacity long before a second oil change at 6,000 or 15,000 miles.
Replacing the oil filter every time the oil is changed, therefore, is highly recommended.
An engine's main line of defense against abrasion and the premature wear it causes is the oil filter. The filter's job is to remove solid contaminants such as dirt, carbon and metal particles from the oil before they can damage bearing, journal and cylinder wall surfaces in the engine. The more dirt and other contaminants the filter can trap and hold, the better.
In today's engines, all the oil that's picked up by the oil pump is routed through the filter before it goes to the crankshaft bearings, cam bearings and valvetrain. This is called "full-flow" filtration. It's an efficient way of removing contaminants, and it assures only filtered oil is supplied to the engine. In time, though, accumulated dirt and debris trapped by the filter begin to obstruct the flow of oil. The filter should be changed before it reaches this point, which is why the filter needs to be replaced when the oil is changed.
If you wait too long to change the filter, there's a danger that it might become plugged. To prevent this from causing a catastrophic engine failure due to loss of lubrication, oil filters have a built-in safety device called a "bypass valve." When the pressure drop across the filter exceeds a predetermined value (which varies depending on the engine application), the bypass valve opens so oil can continue to flow to the engine. But this allows unfiltered oil to enter the engine. Any contaminants that find their way into the crankcase will be pumped through the engine and accelerate wear.
Filter Replacement
If you do your own oil changes, make sure you get the correct filter for your engine. Follow the filter manufacturer's listings in its catalog. Many filters that look the same on the outside have different internal valving. Many overhead cam engines, for example, require an "anti-drainback" valve in the filter to prevent oil from draining out of the filter when the engine is shut off. This allows oil pressure to reach critical engine parts more quickly when the engine is restarted. Filters that are mounted sideways on the engine typically require an anti-drainback valve.
CAUTION: The threads on a spin-on filter must also be the correct diameter and thread pitch (SAE or metric) for your engine. If you install a filter with SAE threads on an engine that requires metric threads (or vice versa), you can damage the threads that hold the oil filter in place. Mismatched threads can also allow the filter to work loose, which causes a sudden loss of oil pressure that may ruin your engine!
Some people say it's best to change the oil when the oil is hot (like right after driving), while others say it makes no difference. CAUTION: Hot oil is thinner and runs out faster but can also burn you if you're not careful. In any event, avoid unnecessary skin contact with oil because oil is a suspected carcinogen (causes cancer).
Changing the oil when it is cold may take a bit longer because the oil will drain more slowly from the engine, but there's no danger of being burned. Also, most of the oil will have drained down into the oil pan when the engine has sat for a period of time, which means you'll actually get a little more of the old oil out of the engine than if you attempt to drain it while it is still hot.
Used motor oil should be disposed of properly. The Environmental Protection Agency does not consider used motor oil to be a hazardous chemical, but it can foul ground water and does contain traces of lead. The best way to dispose of used motor oil is to take it to a service station, quick lube shop, parts store or other facility for recycling. Your old oil will either be rerefined into other lubricants or petroleum products, or burned as fuel.
Do not dump used motor oil on the ground, down a drain, into a storm sewer or place it in the trash. Many landfills will not accept used motor oil even if it is in a sealed container because it will eventually leak out into the ground. If you can't find an environmentally-acceptable way to dispose of the stuff, maybe you shouldn't be changing your own oil. Service facilities that do oil changes all have storage tanks and recycling programs to dispose of used oil.
wolfman
05-21-2006, 01:12 AM
Waits patiently for the "Just wait for the OLM light to come on" cult to chime in....
Personally, my VUE (05' 2.2L FWD) will be fed a regular diet of Mobil 1 5w-30 and quality filters... changed every 4500 miles...
Bullet
05-21-2006, 02:08 AM
Waits patiently for the "Just wait for the OLM light to come on" cult to chime in....
Personally, my VUE (05' 2.2L FWD) will be fed a regular diet of Mobil 1 5w-30 and quality filters... changed every 4500 miles...
This is what I find interesting and maybe overlooked by " old school " members such as myself.
The oil filters on most engines today have been downsized to save weight, cost and space. The "standard" quart-sized filter that was once common on most engines has been replaced by a pint-sized (or smaller) filter. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that a smaller filter has less total filtering capacity. Even so, the little filters should be adequate for a 3,000 mile oil change intervals -- but may run out of capacity long before a second oil change at 6,000 or 15,000 miles.
Replacing the oil filter every time the oil is changed, therefore, is highly recommended.
BulleT
;)
IMkenNY
05-21-2006, 01:17 PM
OLM factors in the severe/ normal driving.
It wont happen often but its very possible oil can be worn out well before 3000 miles with excessive idling... something the OLM would catch.
alank
05-21-2006, 01:21 PM
I also use synthetic Mobil I but I do prefer to drain the oil when it is hot, just after running the vehicle because any dirt or metal particles that may be in the cranckcase will be suspended in the oil and not have time to settle in the drain pan which does not drain every drop of oil out the plug hole. Any particles will come out with the hot oil but yes you do have to be careful of not getting burnt and this can easily be done using common sense.
spencerb
05-22-2006, 12:55 PM
For maximum protection, most oil companies say to change the oil every 3,000miles or three to six months regardless of what type of driving you do.What is that? Oil companies want to sell more oil? They are terrified that car companies are putting in oil life monitors and recommending extended service schedules.
If most people didn't fall into the "normal" service schedule, then it wouldn't be called "normal," would it?
Above all, follow the manufacturer's recommendations. And for my car, it says to change it with the OLM, which accounts for "severe" driving.
The Critic
05-24-2006, 11:29 PM
I've seen that article...its not even worth my time to read.
1) Smaller filters can have equal or greater capacities/efficiencies to their larger counterparts. The grade of media used in these filters is often higher to allow for better capacity and efficiency over the longer service intervals. A good example of this would be to look at the Honda sized filter for their V6 engines, versus a PH8A sized filter. The latter is twice the size of the Honda filter, yet the service interval is three times shorter. The media used in the Honda sized filter is much different than the one used in the PH8A.
2) Oil Analysis has far more uses than determining the oil change interval. It can detect minor engine problems before they become obvious. A good example of this would be the small intake manifold gasket leaks in the GM 3.1/3.4L V6 engines.
3) Honda recommends changing the filter every OTHER oil change for a reason. A filter does become more efficient as it plugs, hence the last 1/3 of its service life will be shorter than the first 1/3.
wolfman
05-25-2006, 05:38 AM
Ummm... not all filters are created equal...neither are all oils.
No one is berating anyone for using the OLM....
I have questioned the faith that some have in it...and even mentioned that many who work on these cars quietly place little confidence in it....
Its ok to believe...just like its ok not to.
Yet if I refuse to believe, based on what I know...I'm part of the big oil conspiracy to sell more oil, and the OLM is in place to combat the evil forces of OPEC and signal handedly solve the oil price crisis and global warming...
People believe in all sorts of things....reasonable and not, and for a variety of reasons. The only person they need to justify their beliefs to, is themselves.
GearGuy
05-25-2006, 02:21 PM
Waits patiently for the "Just wait for the OLM light to come on" cult to chime in....
Personally, my VUE (05' 2.2L FWD) will be fed a regular diet of Mobil 1 5w-30 and quality filters... changed every 4500 miles...
Ah, sorry I'm late... :D
People that have a passion for cars are just about as passionate about oil change intervals. It's almost like religion. Previous preachings about oil change intervals drilled into everyone's heads that 3000 miles was the limit.
As far as I'm concerned, if they feel that strongly by it, then by all means, they should change thier oil every 3,000 miles. Peace of mind does have its value.
Oil technology is advancing like everything else. Oils are acheiving higher and higher classifications to meet tougher requirements. See attached at the bottom for the short list.
HERE (http://www.aa1car.com/library/API_ratings.pdf) is a bit from the American Petroleum Institute
From the above about API SM oil,
SM oils are designed to provide improved oxidation resistance, improved deposit protection, better wear protection, and better low-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some SM oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving.
Here's a previous thread about the OLM. (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75399&highlight=olm)
The manual (well, my manual at least) states to follow the OLM light. Doing so will not void your warranty.
A good oil filter that is more efficient at filtering out the smaller particles will also reduce engine wear. I don't race so I don't need high oil flow so I choose Purolator PureOne oil filters.
For the person deciding on an oil change interval, I think they have to ask themselves what they expect from their vehicle and how they are going to treat it.
If you drive in "Severe" conditions as described in the manual, then you should follow those recommendations.
For those that fall into the "Normal" category...
Are you leasing and plan on getting another vehicle in a few years? Follow the OLM and use regular dino oil. You won't have a problem.
Own it and want to get to 100,000 miles? Use a good API SM oil and the OLM and I doubt (I can't predict the future...) you will have a problem. I don't think any of the Vue engines are prone to sludging like some engines out in the market. You may see a layer of varnish on the inner surfaces of your engine. Does that bother you? Then choose to change the oil more frequently or step up to a synthetic oil or synthetic blend oil.
Own it and want to get to 200,000 miles? See above! Though it would be my guess that you will likely see some minor oil consumption and deposits with dino oil. Again, does that bother you? Then, again, choose to change the oil more frequently or step up to a synthetic oil or synthetic blend oil or maybe dabble with doses of oil booster.
Own it and want to get to 300,000 plus miles and pass the car on to your grandchildren? Then you probably should choose higher levels of protection from when the vehicle is new. Though around my area the body may turn to a rough orange appearance and might be falling off of what is left of the frame. :xeye:
A while ago, I bought an '89 Cavalier with 81,000 miles on it, reasonably cared for. I changed the oil every 3,000 miles with Castrol GTX, Mobil or Exxon SuperFlo API SH and SJ dino oil and a Fram filter (this was before I found BITOG). I was not easy on the car but racked the mileage up to 209,000 miles. The engine did not smoke but consumed less than 1 quart between oil changes. Under the valve cover through the oil fill hole, there was light varnish buildup. The aluminum head looked like aluminum. The body was falling apart though. The windshield cracked from rust at the edge. I sold the car to a kid that wanted to race it on an oval dirt track that is part race and part demolition derby. It started right up for him after sitting for quite a while. I got what I wanted from the car but clearly the life of the engine exceeded the life of the body...
On BITOG, one guy left the factory fill dino oil in his new Civic for 10,000 miles and then had an oil analysis done. The analysis concluded that the protection was pretty much used up and the wear signs were just a bit above average. Mind you that this oil was used during the new vehicle "break-in" period...
I'm on my 3rd dino oil fill from 6,000 miles because of the "break-in". I'll let it go 4,000 miles and I'll get an oil analysis done.
Sorry to have gone so long....
Bottom line, figure out your expectations and then choose what you are comfortable with.
Normally I wouldn't follow the OLM (well this is my first car with one, and I'm only on my second oil change) But it came on at 5,000kms for my first one when the car had the dealership dino. I chalked this up to the tech forgetting to reset the light. Then I switched to sythetic, and decided an 8,000kms OCI would be fine, and guess what, it came on at 8,000kms :whoa: (within about 200kms each time the OLM came on BTW, it wasn't exact) My mom's VUE will be getting her's changed every 5,000kms or less. And my sister's SC1 doesn't have an OLM, but it Mobil1, like mine, and like mine will get the same 8,000km OCI.
spencerb
05-25-2006, 05:04 PM
The truth is that 99% of people who change their oil sooner than recommended (by the OLM or owner's manual recommendations) have no solid evidence to back up their actions. How many people have personally been in a situation when the manufacturer's oil change intervals were followed and there was an engine failure due to infrequent oil changes? How many people changed their oil at the recommended interval and a used oil analysis showed that the oil's protection properties had been depleted?
One can say that he changed his oil every 3K miles and got 500K miles out of an engine. That doesn't show that a longer interval WOULDN'T have gotten you 500K.
One can say they changed their oil sooner because they heard of a friend of a friend who is a mechanic say that you gotta change it sooner or else.
Keep in mind there will always be flukes. There will be engine failures no matter how often you service it.
If someone wants to change their oil sooner, that's quite alright. You aren't hurting the car. But keep in mind that the sole reason for 99% of those people is because "that's the way it's always been done." So are you going by tradition, or facts? Without a lab analysis, we don't know what's going on inside the engine and the oil. Are there REALLY particles from the factory that need to be flushed out, or is it just our uneducated logic?
Oh, and tradition has it that throwing rice at weddings will kill birds who eat it. You know that's not true either, right? :D
sspeer
05-25-2006, 06:56 PM
Oil is better than when the 3K mile recommendation came out. No real harm in doing that..but it's your money and some Sheik's oil..:D
I'm happy with using using Mobil 1, Purolator Filters, and the OLM...and I'm probably still well on the safe side.
I wouldn't go past the OLM unless you're sending samples of your oil off to be analyzed
Oil is better than when the 3K mile recommendation came out. No real harm in doing that..but it's your money and some Sheik's oil..:D
I'm happy with using using Mobil 1, Purolator Filters, and the OLM...and I'm probably still well on the safe side.
I wouldn't go past the OLM unless you're sending samples of your oil off to be analyzed
I'll be curious to see how the OLM jibes with my usual 7500 mile schedule with Mobil1.
Cheers,
The Critic
05-25-2006, 11:03 PM
and even mentioned that many who work on these cars quietly place little confidence in it....
As much as I respect your knowledge, I’m surprised that you have high regards for the lubrication knowledge of many mechanics.
A good oil filter that is more efficient at filtering out the smaller particles will also reduce engine wear. I don't race so I don't need high oil flow so I choose Purolator PureOne oil filters.
Flow is equally as important as filtration, especially upon startup. The Napa Gold/Wix filters offer a good blend between filtration and capacity. All things being equal, the filter with a lower flow rate will have a shorter life, so there’s a greater chance of hitting bypass mode during a longer drain. This is why many of the OEM filters have lower efficiencies and higher flow rates, they want the filter to offer good filtration throughout the entire oil drain.
Own it and want to get to 300,000 plus miles and pass the car on to your grandchildren? Then you probably should choose higher levels of protection from when the vehicle is new. Though around my area the body may turn to a rough orange appearance and might be falling off of what is left of the frame.
I would have no concerns over using 5w30 SM/GF-4 conventional oil with a high-capacity oil filter for the interval suggested by the OLM. There is little or no evidence of improved engine life by using synthetic engine oils under normal driving conditions.
Theoretically, the OLM may sacrifice the engine cleanliness (to an extent) for the longer oil drains. In general, keeping the TBN > 3.0 on the ASTM/D-4739 protocol (used by OAI/CTC) or > 1.0 on Blackstone’s scale will allow for better engine cleanliness due to the higher RESERVE acid fighting capability of the oil. Thus, if you are picky about having a clean engine, use oil analysis or keep oil drains @ < 5,000 miles while using conventional oil or < 7,500 miles while using synthetic oil. Also, the issue of a clean engine is really overblown…for those who are actually concerned about it. Engines will operate fine on low to moderate levels of buildup as they are designed with that in mind.
under the valve cover through the oil fill hole, there was light varnish buildup.
The SM/GF-4 and later oils should keep the engines a bit cleaner than oils of the past, but some light varnish buildup is harmless and expected.
On BITOG, one guy left the factory fill dino oil in his new Civic for 10,000 miles and then had an oil analysis done. The analysis concluded that the protection was pretty much used up and the wear signs were just a bit above average. Mind you that this oil was used during the new vehicle "break-in" period...
The “excessive wear metals” logic with the factory fill is overblown as well. Analyze any factory fill from any vehicle on the market today, one that was run until the first scheduled oil change for its operating conditions, and the wear metals will certainly be higher than if the sample was taken two oil changes later. Blackstone’s comments are extremely conservative and can be overly cautious with regards to factory fills. I do not take their comments as seriously as others may take them. It is perfectly normal that the wear rate will be higher during the initial wear-in period. The elevated wear metals will not do any harm if the oil was changed at the recommended interval as the larger “pieces” if any, LOL, would’ve been caught by the filter. There is no evidence that links waiting until the first recommended interval to perform the oil service will lead to decreased engine life. Of the millions of engines produced yearly, how many have their factory fill changed out early ???
How many people have personally been in a situation when the manufacturer's oil change intervals were followed and there was an engine failure due to infrequent oil changes?
I know someone is going to chime in and mention the Toyota V6 and VW 1.8T sludge issues sooner or later and I’d like to say upfront that they were never an issue, period.
The Toyota sludge issue, the limited # of engines is occurred to, were caused primarily by users who did not follow the correct maintenance schedule for their operating conditions.
The VW/Audi 1.8T sludge problem was caused by incompetent and illiterate dealerships, independent shops, and owners who misinterpreted the oil recommendations in the owner’s manual. The manual specifically requires a 502.00, ACEA A3/B3, and API S? or later oil that was either 5w30 or 5w40. The engine comes factory-filled with 5w40. The owners and repair shops, as well as dealerships, interpreted the oil recommendations as running an API SL (or later) oil, provided that it was rated 5w30, was OK, when it really wasn’t. The oil had to also meet 502.00 and ACEA A3/B3 ratings which only synthetic oils met. In other words, dealerships were using bulk 5w30 mineral oil to service these engines for the recommended 5K drains in Passats and 10K drains in A4s. The owners who used the correct synthetic oil never had issues with sludge, as evident by the non existence of the sludge issue in Europe.
GearGuy
05-26-2006, 02:07 AM
You're the same "The Critic" over at BITOG, aren't you?
THIS (http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000513;p=1) was a pretty interesting thread, though I gave up before getting to the end.
Sure, flow is important. But I won't be taking my Vue on the track that would keep the rpms high. Just the occasional WOT for passing. The PureOne is amply designed to provide flow without going into bypass for extended intervals like during cold startup. This has been shown on BITOG. Capacity should be fine up to the OLM limit, though I'm half tempted to go through the trouble to try and find a larger capacity PureOne with the same bypass spec. that will still fit in the Vue. Has anyone else looked into this?
I've noticed that the Wix and Napa Gold are good choices as well.
About the Civic, I agree that you would expect higher wear metals in the factory fill oil sample too. Which is why I thought it was pretty amazing that the car went 10,000 miles on the factory fill.
I know someone is going to chime in and mention the Toyota V6 and VW 1.8T sludge issues sooner or later and I’d like to say upfront that they were never an issue, period.
Or the issue with the sludge causing problems with early Saturn 1.9L timing chain tensioners. I never saw this issue on my or any cars that were under my care since all those cars used Mobil1.
I used a borescope to look into my 1.8T and 2.7T top end and they are squeaky clean (not even a hint of varnish). 7500 mile intervals with M1 have been good to me.
Cheers,
spencerb
05-26-2006, 09:37 AM
About the Civic, I agree that you would expect higher wear metals in the factory fill oil sample too. Which is why I thought it was pretty amazing that the car went 10,000 miles on the factory fill.I'm not 100% positive, but I think the Civic recommends ~7500 mile changes and does not specify an earlier first oil change. So 10K miles really isn't that far off the schedule. But I would certainly not ignore the owner's manual and go that far.
GearGuy
05-26-2006, 01:18 PM
I'm not 100% positive, but I think the Civic recommends ~7500 mile changes and does not specify an earlier first oil change. So 10K miles really isn't that far off the schedule. But I would certainly not ignore the owner's manual and go that far.
I can't say that I know for sure what Honda recommends either but, IIRC, the guy was told by the dealership that he could go 10,000 miles between oil changes.
I did a quick search on the web but couldn't find any links to a Honda recommended OCI for the '06 Civic.
fastdrvr23
05-26-2006, 01:59 PM
For my 05' Accord LX 4 cylinder, the schedule was every 10K miles, filter changed every OTHER oil change. For severe it was every 7,500 miles, same thing with the filter. Craziness!
For my 05' Accord LX 4 cylinder, the schedule was every 10K miles, filter changed every OTHER oil change. For severe it was every 7,500 miles, same thing with the filter. Craziness!
I believe my Audi filters are stamped with a "change every 30,000km" recommendation.
Cheers,
fastdrvr23
05-26-2006, 02:20 PM
I believe my Audi filters are stamped with a "change every 30,000km" recommendation.
Cheers,
Sounds about right, I know some of the BMW's are on a 15K schedule for their mobil 1 synthetic and filter...
On a side note, I work for the company that makes engines/components for Audi. (Mahle, Inc.) Ever need some replacement pistons or something let me know. :)
Sounds about right, I know some of the BMW's are on a 15K schedule for their mobil 1 synthetic and filter...
On a side note, I work for the company that makes engines/components for Audi. (Mahle, Inc.) Ever need some replacement pistons or something let me know. :)
As a matter of fact, it's a Mahle filter. :-) If you want to throw a few cases of oil/air/cabin filters out the back door, let me know when to wait outside. :D
spencerb
05-26-2006, 03:35 PM
I worked for a retail store that had an alarm on the back door that only the manager could deactivate. It was to prevent employees from throwing merchandise out the back door and picking it up after work. For the same reason only the manager was allowed to take out the trash, but she didn't care and made us do it.
But back to oil changes...
I think the biggest problem is that manufacturers are recommending oil change procedures that are different than we are used to. People discount them without data to back them up. "Surely a car can't go THAT long on an oil change!" Hello, engines, oils, and filters are not the same as they were in the past!
fastdrvr23
05-26-2006, 03:43 PM
As a matter of fact, it's a Mahle filter. :-) If you want to throw a few cases of oil/air/cabin filters out the back door, let me know when to wait outside. :D
It'd make for an interesting afternoon for sure. Our security here is probably looking for a reason to shoot an IT guy, extra points or something.
What I really need to find is some of the data from our QA engineers in aftermarket. They test all sorts of filters (air/oil/fuel/etc). I need to check and see if we have some sort of employee discount on the ones we make... I'd probably have to buy them buy the pallet or something. lol
What I really need to find is some of the data from our QA engineers in aftermarket. They test all sorts of filters (air/oil/fuel/etc). I need to check and see if we have some sort of employee discount on the ones we make... I'd probably have to buy them buy the pallet or something. lol
Just go ask them. If one of the IT guys came up to me and asked, I'd tell 'em to get lost, becuse IT guys suck (I'm kidding, really I am, they're proabably reading this) But just ask one of them. I work for QA at Gates, and I'll tell you flat out, don't buy our aftermarket Saturn 1.9L tensioner, it's junk. The OEM part is fine tho, but the Dayco is usually cheaper, so I'd buy it if I didn't get a super steep discount. I buy belts for cars and snowmobiles here from work all the time. I just ordred a timing belt idler for a '92 Madzda 929 for my buddy yesterday. It's definately worth looking into. :yes:
It'd make for an interesting afternoon for sure. Our security here is probably looking for a reason to shoot an IT guy, extra points or something.
What I really need to find is some of the data from our QA engineers in aftermarket. They test all sorts of filters (air/oil/fuel/etc). I need to check and see if we have some sort of employee discount on the ones we make... I'd probably have to buy them buy the pallet or something. lol
Heh, that's alright. They'll wait til they find out about the latest Symantec zero day vulnerability in their corporate antivirus product. Then they'll shoot ya. :-)
But seriously, if you get a fat discount, drop me an email. They're rather expensive around here and the shipping when getting them online is a bit high. And I really like to use Mahle filters.
Cheers,
fastdrvr23
05-26-2006, 04:59 PM
Heh, that's alright. They'll wait til they find out about the latest Symantec zero day vulnerability in their corporate antivirus product. Then they'll shoot ya. :-)
But seriously, if you get a fat discount, drop me an email. They're rather expensive around here and the shipping when getting them online is a bit high. And I really like to use Mahle filters.
Cheers,
Yeah, luckily I'm a programmer (our IT dept. is a big pile of developers, techs, and network guys) so I don't have to hear about too many user issues anymore. I've played cards with our guards before when I was up here really late with some upgrade problems, we get along fine. Although, that probably means they'd just shoot me in the leg instead of the head. lol
Sure thing though, I'll check with them on Tuesday when everyone is back at work to see what sort of deal they can cook up. If you have a chance in the meantime, do you happen to have the part numbers you'll need? I don't know if we'd have flat rate pricing or not, so that might help. Just send them through a PM or something here on the board and I'll get back to you on Tuesday. Have a good weekend everyone!
we get along fine. Although, that probably means they'd just shoot me in the leg instead of the head. lol
Sounds like a nice buncha guys you got working there. :snide: ;)
fastdrvr23
05-27-2006, 10:41 AM
Sounds like a nice buncha guys you got working there. :snide: ;)
They're ok I guess.They had some Krispy Kremes this morning that they offered me at our guard house that secures the parking lot... Too bad I was on my motorcycle, leaving. I should've stopped and seen how many I could get down before they tried to stop me. :D
GearGuy
05-29-2006, 02:49 AM
Found another person willing to push the oil change mileage...
Havoline DINO goes 12,650 miles (http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002940;p=1)
Found another person willing to push the oil change mileage...
Havoline DINO goes 12,650 miles (http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002940;p=1)
Eeek, I don't know if I'd trust dino oil to go that long. My thing with the anal retentive oil analysis thing is that unless you really need an extra hobby, it's more trouble than it's worth. An oil change is not terribly expensive (especially if you do it yourself). The time/money to deal with periodic sampling of your oil isn't free and contributes substantially to the overall cost of your oil over the life of the car...perhaps more than offsetting any "savings" in oil/filter purchases. So while I'd like to minimize the chance for grossly underutilizing my oil and contribute to pollution needlessly, I'll err on the side of caution and stick to my 7500 mile changes with Mobil1. :D
GearGuy
05-29-2006, 02:39 PM
No problem with that! I don't think I would push dino oil that far either...
I'm just trying to provide awareness that dino oils have the capability, based on UOA, of much longer runs than the 3,000 mile intervals of the past.
I strongly encourage people that do get a Use Oil Analysis (UOA) done, to please post their results so that other people will not have to waste their money to build some faith that the OLM can be trusted to do its job in a vehicle that is in good service and running properly.
Please share whatever information can be found so that we can all make a more informed decision about our own vehicles. In the end, everyone has to make their own decision regarding service of their vehicles.
I'm still trying to make up my mind. I'd like to follow the OLM because it will adjust based on driving conditions and because the vehicle is still under warranty. I'd like a bit of extra protection out of my oil but don't want to pay a lot. I plan on getting a UOA done just to ensure that wear metals have settled down.
I've got the following stashes of oil ready to go for another oil change;
- Havoline 5W-20 API-SM, on sale for?
- Mobil Clean 7500 5W-20 Synthetic Blend, Christmas gift.
- Penzoil Platinum 5W-20 Synthetic, picked up for just over $2/qt.
On another note, I played around with the OnStar report information to recalculate the information to a predictive oil life mileage and expected next oil change date. See attached.
Just out of curiosity....
Let's say you get an oil analysis done and the results show excessive wear. What would you do with that information? If you go to the dealer and say "Aha, I have excessive wear and I'm following the recommended service procedure." They'll say "Come see us if you experience a failure or some oil consumption." I've never heard of anyone getting a dealer to pre-emptively deal with a problem so I'm not even sure I'd WANT to know. Your only real recourse is to use that forknowledge to unload the car (pushing the problem onto someone else) but still not making it go away.
Cheers,
IMkenNY
05-29-2006, 06:27 PM
Just out of curiosity....
Let's say you get an oil analysis done and the results show excessive wear. What would you do with that information? If you go to the dealer and say "Aha, I have excessive wear and I'm following the recommended service procedure." They'll say "Come see us if you experience a failure or some oil consumption." I've never heard of anyone getting a dealer to pre-emptively deal with a problem so I'm not even sure I'd WANT to know. Your only real recourse is to use that forknowledge to unload the car (pushing the problem onto someone else) but still not making it go away.
Cheers,
I would use that information to shorten my change interval and/or switch lubricants.
GearGuy
05-30-2006, 12:27 AM
If the UOA shows excessive wear, then the investigation begins.
THIS (http://bobistheoilguy.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm) should help explain how a UOA can help determine what is going wrong.
If there is something severely wrong with the engine, then I guess I would approach the dealership to see what happens for starters...
4play
06-18-2006, 08:18 AM
My wife's 5spd 2.2 does a 120 mile hwy commute every day & has been using Mobil one changed at 10k since the 2nd oil change. I have access to an oil analysis lab & the samples at 10k are well within the acceptable range. I picked 10k because it's easy to remember.
With 165k on it now, there is no evidence of any performance deterioration.
It's never needed to have any make up oil & the annual emmisions test have always been very clean. The "light" is fine for dino oil, but changing mobil one that often is a waste IMHO.
My wife's 5spd 2.2 does a 120 mile hwy commute every day & has been using Mobil one changed at 10k since the 2nd oil change. I have access to an oil analysis lab & the samples at 10k are well within the acceptable range. I picked 10k because it's easy to remember.
With 165k on it now, there is no evidence of any performance deterioration.
It's never needed to have any make up oil & the annual emmisions test have always been very clean. The "light" is fine for dino oil, but changing mobil one that often is a waste IMHO.
Yep, a long daily highway commute is an ideal situation in terms of (ab)use of the oil. 10k changes seems perfectly acceptable in such a case. I have a buddy with an old F series pick-up that has over 300k miles on it. He's one of those Amsoil fanatics and has a special secondary oil filtration system (so there's 2 filters for the oil). He's been changing the oil every 20,000 miles since he started using synthetic (at about 3000 miles). Recently, one of his valve covers started to leak so we popped them off to change the gaskets and the engine was absolutely pristine inside. It looked like it had literally just rolled off the line inside.
I'm a firm believer in longer change intervals if you use synthetic oil....not because it is any real money saver, but because I think it is a senseless waste to clutter up the environment with perfectly usable oil when it's not necessary. If we all used synthetic oil and changed our oil every 7500-10000 miles, it would create a lot less carcinogenic waste oil which needs to be disposed of.
Cheers,
Mobil 1 every 10k miles for all of my cars with no problems in 140k miles for my main vehicle. Never bothered to have a UOA done. Might one of these days just out of curiosity.
ujm4ever
06-19-2006, 08:45 PM
2002 2.2L 63k miles, 4 oil changes, once per year/15k miles. Amsoil 0W30, swap the filter using the OLM (every appx 5k miles.) Had the oil analyzed a couple years ago, TBN was still at 6.81, and all the metals were fine. NEVER have had to add any top off oil, it appears to not use any oil at all. Runs better than new.
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