Perf parts for an SL

[ElwayLite]

gettin ready to go from a v6 ranger to a saturn sl ( better ride and better mpg!)...after test drivin the sl yest, the damn thing isnt much slower than my 150hp v6 ranger, which is kinda irritating hehe..anyways, i used to be mostly into stereo than i got into perf with the v6 truck, but when i get my sl i'm gonna aim for cosmetics and stereo more than speed...but what i'd liek to know is do they have an underdrive pulley for these cars? i'll prob drop a K&N in and modify the airbox some to open it up and get some cold air to it, but besides that i dont really want an exhaust (been listening to a flow 40 series for 2 years now hehe) so i figure id leave my engine mods at a K&N and UDP (if they have one) for now....also, are there any other little mods i might be missin that arent that pricey and wont make the car any louder :)

[N2orocks]

Hi ellwAYlite, the sl is a good choice. The four doors are handy and the folding rear seats rock. Are you gettting the sl1 or sl2. I hope the sl2. you can get a drop in KandN filter or the cone type to go with cold air intake. That will make car growl. aDD THE THROTTLE BODY and and it gets a tiny bit louder. A mod that is not too much money and actually quiets the car down(makes a kind of hissing growl) is NITROUS. you can get the kit for 250bucksd used. you can expect several years of strong engine life. I also reccommend nology grounded spark plug wires. The have capasitors in each wire and gives more spark power. They are like 140bucks and the look cool. When I first got them it felt like the car just got a major tune up (AND it wasn't running bad before). Much better throttle response. Thats alh

[Yobos4vr]

agreed...wires and plugs are a cheap but well worth the investment upgrade. another is changing the lightbulbs to a good set of hid like bulbs.

[Richard]

Hey now...don't go tearing out your plugs and wires unless you have to. You don't get anymore horsepower out of aftermarket plugs or wires over stock. This has been proven over and over on the dyno. If you are looking at the SL and not the SL1 or SL2...you will not have rear speakers (this depends on the year, I think brand new SLs have rear speakers). Anyways, it would be a prime opportunity for some 6x9s in the rear shelf. Just bust out a jigsaw and start cutting.

Underdrive pulleys do exist; they are made by BPE. There is a crank and alternator pulley for sale. Neither has been shown to cause engine damage. The only problem is they can take up to two months to manufacture, but I hear the results are well worth it: more power across the RPM range especially lower RPMs. Here is the link for the pulleys:

<a href="http://www.members.home.net/nickboers/index.html" target="_blank"><!--auto-->http://www.members.home.net/nickboers/index.html</a><!--auto-->

Again, I can't emphasize this enough...<b>don't waste a perfectly good set of plugs and wires![\b]

[Sam96SL2]

Yea I would have to agree dont waste your money on plugs and wires, I have heard OEM is still the best,

As far as cosmetics you could tint windows, go for the CATZ ZETA headlights, Aux driving lamps or foglights, I would go for the Hotshot intake you will love the way it sounds under WOT, the list can go on on depends on how much you want to spend. But take your time and it will all come together

[N2orocks]

Sorry Richard and Sam; what did you say? How long have you been driving with your Nology wires? oh never. That's what I thought. People claim things and many times it is untrue but you never know until you try. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Don't take advice about aftermarket parts from people who have never used them before; or who have just heard about them. The Nology wires create (at the very least)a percieved improvment. The car is more responsive all around. I can't say enough good things about the Nology wires. I can say 1 bad thing though. Like, make sure you get the wire seperators or else the wires will wear through on your valve cover over time. I've used them since they came out and I'm on my second set (the first set wore out on valve cover). I wouldn't have dropped a 140bucks again! if I didn't percieve a positive increase in performance; not to mention looks. Thanks for all your posts everyone. Rumors are a good thing. They usually help reveal truth.

[N2orocks]

Oh yeah I forgot. THe dyno dosen't measure throttle response, does it?

[Richard]

<blockquote><hr>You don't get anymore horsepower out of aftermarket plugs or wires over stock. This has been proven over and over on the dyno.<hr></blockquote>

You don't get anymore torque either for that matter. If you don't believe me call up SPS, they'll tell you the same thing. And you're right N2O, I haven't used these wires. I would never drop that much money on something that has no proven performance benefit. "Throttle response?" That's your 'perceived' feeling of power. Since your wallet is that much lighter you are bound to go faster. I hear this over and over again. "Oh yeah, using high octane gas in my car makes it faster." or "Brand X of motor oil gives my car more throttle response." Since people <i>want</i> their cars to perform better they trick themselves into thinking it is.

Oh, by the way, if throttle response it how the car "pulls" at low RPM, well that is called <b>torque</b>. Torque is measured on the dynomometer.

[XP8TRIOT]

Take it easy guys.

Richard, I'm trying to learn more about cars and have picked up a couple books. One of them is How to build HP in Any Car. It has a section that talks about ignition and wires and power coils. Can you please tell me what benefit the whole wire/performance spark plug/power coil set-up has to do with building Horse Power. From my reading last night the only thing I left with is that there is a variance in the number of sparks per mili second or how long a spark last for and that there is some effect with combining that with the air/fuel mixture at increasing speads. My point is there has to be some benefit (I assume, since there's a section in my book) to this kind of set-up. If it's not power, what is it. I'm not questioning your answer I just need to help clearing this up. Thanks for your help.

[DJ ExTORT]

Doesn't SPS do an investigation into the Nology Wires and find that they do in fact improve the care HP with other mods such as exhaust and intake. I have the wires myself and have been very pleased with them.

[Richard]

SPS did do an investigation and found that changing wires to be beneficial at WOT. But, keep in mind that they were using a modified DOHC engine. The SL is a single overhead cam and does not come from the dealer with all kinds of bolt-ons. I also find their claim a little suspicious in that they are the company who is trying to sell the plug wires and a $140 set of wires at that. If this claim came from a 3rd party I might find it more believable.

What I'm trying to get at is: Combustion is what makes power in an engine. More spark is not going to make more power <b>unless</b> there is more fuel to burn! It is that simple. You could quadruple spark intensity and would not make any more horsepower on a naturally aspirated Saturn engine. The stock igition system is more than enough to ignite ALL fuel in the cylinder. Granted, if you a running huge amounts of boost you have more air and fuel in each cylinder that has to be burned. This scenario would facilitate the need for better ignition. You may need a spark amplifier or a different coil pack, but I would suspect that even the stock wires are strong enough to handle the power.

Spark variance and duration are not a factor on a Saturn engine, maybe on an older and larger carbeurated engine. Since we cannot adjust these factors (everything is controlled by the PCM) they really do not apply.

Now back to my original argument: $140 is an outrageous amount of money to pay for plug wires! Do yourself a favor and buy something with that money that will improve performance on your particular application. I believe a cold air intake starts at around $150 which has been proven to add 5 horsepower at the wheels, or go for the underdrive pulleys, also proven to add horsepower across the board. Until you have a turbo, supercharger, or are running a huge hit of nitrous oxide (100+ hp) you will not, and I repeat, <b>will not</b> benefit from aftermarket plugs, wires,or coil packs.

[Sam96SL2]

Thats the same thing I was thinking you are not gonna benefit from the Nology wires unless you are running some kind of forced induction or using nitrous

As far as your percieved improvement, it is just like the guys who drop 50-60 bucks for the blue headlights and they swear up and down that those bulbs increase lighting performance. Why? b/c they have shucked out all that money...Personally I still say OEM is the best if you are not using forced induction or a hefty shot of juice. IMO

[Sam96SL2]

BTW-remember the Venom 400, I suppose that makes more horsepower also...I guarantee someone still has a percieved notion it is adding power to their car.

[N2orocks]

Ok Richard. you pointed out the relationship between spending alot of cash on parts (that you don't feel are necessary) and hinted that there is some sense of delusional perception attributed to spending alot of cash on parts. sounds funny to me. but you may be on to something really big. when you apply that logic to hobbies it may hold true. I tested your theory on me. Here is the DATA: I spent 140 on plug wires--I percieved improvement in throttle response-----car felt more responsive. Am I having flashbacks of when I knew my ZIPPS made me run so much faster? Is car really "more-responsive"? TESTING---Reinstalled stock wires----Got neighbor and mechanic at same time at my house---warm engine stock plug wires--rev engine from idle to 5000rpm 6 times; foot to floor very fast----installed NOLOGY wires----Reved engine 6 times from idle to 5000rpm. RESULTS---stock plug wires we noticed a low end miss/hicup; as saturns do. With NOLOGY wires the car reved up without the low end miss/hicup. very obvious increase in throttle response---hence incresed performance. Both neighbor and mechanic agreed with my perception, that car sounded like it reved up faster in response to wide open throttle; better throttle response. Test over. "Throttle response', then Richard, 'is not how how the car 'pulls' at low RPM." Throttle response, as I understand it, is how fast the engine begins to rev up when you step on the gas. Is spending lots of cash and perciving a gain when there is none possible? sure, why not. That type of perception is what leads us to our individuality and personal happiness. That perception goes toward the reasons why people spend cash on their hobbies. That's why some up us are into stereos and others are into hydraulics. I may categorize you as a minimalist or the person who doubts things until SPS "proves" it for you, Richard. But that is just a perception I have of you. And I'm glad you are the way you are because that is what should make you happy. Back to the NOLOGY wires. I think they do made a positive difference. Even more that I have described. TOM

[Richard]

You cant get accurate results from any tests unless the engine is under load. Sitting in your driveway and revving the engine is not by any means an accurate test. Don't Saturns have a no-load rev limiter at 4k? Then how did you rev to 5k?

[N2orocks]

When checking timing on say a 302ci ford, you do not do this when engine is under load. I think we are talking in circles here. Accuracy is not my point. Not all saturns have the no-load rev limiter at 4k. Just like not all saturns have a top speed limiter. Think what you want, my plug wires (at least) look cooler than yours. Plus my car is faster than yours, even without the nitrous. It corners better. It stops quicker.And when I hear the normal hesitation with stock wires and I dont hear it with NOLOGY wires I say there is an improvement. I'm done with this thread

[Richard]

This is why I hate getting into these arguments. The other person always has to get personal! So what if your car performs better than mine. I don't care if it runs 12's on pump gas and street tires with or without nitrous oxide. I drive a 2001 SL1 auto, which is quite possibly the slowest car that Saturn makes at this time. Does that fact limit my knowledge of engines or knowledge of how to make horsepower? I don't think so. But none of that is the issue...we were talking about plug wires. If you read ElwayLite's original post, he asks for "mods i might be missin that arent that pricey..." What's that? $140 for plug wires? That sounds a little pricey to me. And for what? Throttle response? Yes, N20, you can't measure throttle response on a dyno...and that's just one more reason not to buy a $140 set of wires! I believe Elway also said he was not going for performance with his car. I assume this means he is going to keep it naturally aspirated and with only minor bolt-ons. So why yank out the stock wires? Why? Why? Tell me! Because they look cool? Give me a break!
Your Ford timing argument doesn't stand up either. Its meaningless in fact. What does adjusting timing on a Ford engine have to do with spark power on a Saturn engine? Nothing. Which is exactly what your little test proved. Nothing.

[N2orocks]

Like I said: And when I hear the normal hesitation with stock wires and I dont hear it with NOLOGY wires I say there is an improvement. I'm done with this thread

[N2orocks]

[img=C:\My Documents\Pictures\Photos of Saturn]

[N2orocks]

How do I put pic on thread?

[Sam96SL2]

You cant load pics from your computer, they have to reside on the internet.

<img src="http://www.saturnperformance.com/profiles/pics/Sam96SL2Pic2.jpg" border="0">

[Sam96SL2]

www.honesty.com will host your pics for yah

[Richard]

I don't care what your car looks like. I believe we were talking about plug wires....give it up!

[N2orocks]

Thanks Sam. Hey nice car!

[Chris97sc2]

How about you spending the $60 and testing the wires on a dyno? Then you have proof one way or the other. Chris

[N2orocks]

Good idea! I've gotta wait 2-3 weeks for some more cashish. I can do it with and without the nitrous too. Oh boy I cant wait! Let me try this image thing <img src="http://images.honesty.com/imagedata/h/049/46/30494694.jpg" border="0">

[Sam96SL2]

Damn I wish I had a dark color like that, nice car!!! What type of spring/strut combo you have N2o

[N2orocks]

Ibach springs 1.5" Waiting for Progress coilover. The were due March 1st. But still I wait. Roll cage in about a month. SCCA road racing events in the Southwest Region hopefully within next 3 months. Fun Fun Fun

[Sam96SL2]

Are you gonna sell the eibachs?, if so I'll be happy to take them off your hands

[N2orocks]

Sam they are all yours for 50bucks plus S&h As soon as Progress makes my coilovers. Keep in touch.

[Sam96SL2]

Will do