Need top 10 reasons 2001 SC2 Turbo should be made!

[Laura01SC2]

Hi all...

I posted this message in another thread, but wanted everyone to respond, so I figured I would repost.. I sent a email to Saturn requesting the posters and this is what I got in response... Maybe this will be in a commercial.. That or she really loved my email...

I know you guys are creative, So if they are more than ten for the list, I will post them all..

THanks so much.. And Enjoy..

Laura 99sl2

Laura:

No one can tell you are a true Saturn enthusiast, can they? I guess I will think about scrounging
up some posters for you, however, first I would like your list of top ten reasons why the Saturn
Turbo Coupe should come to fruition. You can make it funny or serious! :)

Also, please make sure in your reply e-mail you include a mailing address to your home. I might
just be able to find those posters if you are creative in your top ten list.

I look forward to your reply! :)

Gayle Varney
Saturn Customer Assistance Center
qgen/jk



Original message follows:
-------------------------

Email - :Spoondoll514@cs.com:
Category - :Advertising including this website:
EmailSubject - :Poster of SC2 2001 Turbo Concept:
Date - :20000511:
Time - :001601:

Title - ::
F.Name - :Laura:
L.Name - :Flack:

Street Addr - :
Apt/P.O.Box - :
City - :
State - :
Zip - :-

Day Phone - :(949)363-7476:
Evening Phone - :()-:
Message -
Hi Saturn,

I was interested in knowing whether you have any posters of the 2001
SC2 Turbo concept car that maybe you could mail me.

I really love that car, and I am looking forward to owning one shortly
(regular 2001SC2). Call me a Saturn Fanatic, but I would love a
poster. Is this possible??

Also, I would just love to put a word in for this concept car to come
to fruition.. I currently own a 99SL2, but would like to own a coupe
and since I am going through my midlife crisis (I am only 32 :) I have
just recently discovered aftermarket accessories for my lovely Saturn.
I feel the need, the need for Speed, and I believe this car with the
turbo would help me through this turbulent time in my life. Any
thoughts about when this may become a reality??

Thanks so much and I look forward to hearing from you soon..

Laura Flack <img src="http://www.saturnfans.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/Images/Happy.gif" border="0" align="middle">

[Mike99sc2a]

I'd love one of those posters

10. If they build it, we will buy it.

[abkaiser]

9. Because if they build it for themselves, but don't sell it to us, they're teasing! And since Saturn's a nice car company, and it's *not* nice to tease... They should sell it.

Andy

[------SC 2------]

I agree Mike and Andy. The SC needs to stand for( Sport Coupe w/the third door) Make a Sports coupe then. The third door increased the sells half , build a more powerful engine, we would all like to see a turbo if not, a much more horsepower enigine. other then a 1.9 liter, 124 horsepower enigine. It will be nice to have a SPORT COUPE and mean it. I like the DOHC enigines don't get me wrong but upgrade it then. The interior has went through changes and Exterior too. Now the Engine NEEDS some changing. Please we beg you.

[chris00sw2]

7. How about something to compete with (and blow the doors off of) the Civic Si?

[Bruno]

Here is my attempt at a top ten list

10. Saturn builds great vehicles
9. The sedan and wagon use the same engine
8. Saturn needs some infusion of excitement
7. sub 15 second quarter mile times!
6. The chasis is begging for more power
5. Look at the One Lap results!
4. The under 25 crowd would flock to Saturn dealerships
3. It will force Saturn to put larger brakes on the S-series finally
2. We need to be able to run with the Civic Si and the Integra Type R
1. Because we said "pretty please!"

[GregK 94 SC2]

10. Mitsubishi Eclipse GT V6 - 205HP
9. Honda Prelude - 200HP
8. Honda Civic Si - 160HP
7. Acura Integra GS-R - 170HP
6. Toyota Celica GT - 150HP
5. Toyota Celica GTS - 180HP
4. Oldsmobile Alero Coupe V6 - 170HP
3. Pontiac Grand Prix GTP Coupe - 240HP
2. VW Passat GLX (ok, not a coupe) - 190HP
1. VW New Beetle Turbo - 150HP

Any questions?

[SpeedPlayer 97sl2]

Here goes:

1) Saturn needs to boost its image in terms of being able to produce a true performance car.

2) The car would bring more showroom traffic and should spur sales among other Saturn models.

3) The car is beautiful!

4) It will open Saturn's target audience to accomodate a younger group.

5) It will increase the awareness of Saturn within the aftermarket performance parts market.

6) It will bring Saturn recognition in comparision to all those "souped-up", slammed Civics and Integras we see on
the road.

7) A road-burning Saturn = a good Saturn

8) Since Mitsubishi came out with the new Eclipse, no other company offers a turbocharged coupe in this target
and price range.

9) You can get hot dates in the car.

10) It gives us fellow Saturn drivers and drag-racers a solid reason to write "Doesn't it suck to be beat by a
Saturn?" on our rear windshields.

Okay okay...number 9 and 10 are a little out in the blue, but 10 is 10, and 10 is what the guy asked for. And he
said it didn't have so be serious. So voila! :)

Acevedo 97sl2

[SCTT]

Because we would buy them all you produced in no time. I would buy two myself. Others in my family that own Saturns might also.

[TurboSC2]

10.)Because Boost is fun

9.) That guy in the Si will feel really dumb, having just been spanked by a Saturn

8.) That guy in the Mustang will feel REALLY,REALLY dumb, having just been spanked by a Saturn

7.)Because Boost is fun ;)

6.)The added infusion of power would make the sportylines really earn their keep.

5.)People need to become really familiar with Saturn Taillamps.

4.)It would give the term: "Ahhh,, the power of polymer" a whole new meaning.

3.)It would be the only domestic car equipped with a turbo.

2.)That wide open front end REALLY needs an intercooler to fill the gap.

1.)Saturn= cool.... boost= cool..... Saturn+boost= Awesome!

(next thing you know,, we'll be begging for them to build a turbo/awd model!

Just think of the possibilities!! hehe ;)

Paul

[JasonD]

I like: It would be the only domestic car with a turbo. Why does Saturn feel that it could not compete in the small performance car market? The japanese car manufactureres do it well, damn its like the US car companies are all chicken shi#.

HAve fun all.

[OPEC]

The top reasons that the Saturn coupe will NEVER be made on the current platform.

10. Tranny can't handle it.

9. The cost is too high to develop a mass produced tranny for the SC-2 that can.

8. The majority of coupe buyers are women not men.

7. Women (most) don't care about Turbo.

6. Projected sales would be low.

5. Would be a money losing project.

4. See 5

3. See 5

2. See 5

1. G.M. is a company driven for sharholder value. They have no interest in developing a turbo coupe. If you want one you will have to do it yourself. If you put one on it will void your warrenty. When you destroy your tranmisson you will only have yourself to blame.

DONT GET ME WRONG!!

I would love to have a turbo available. I just am realistic and realize that on the current platform Saturn will NEVER make it available as an option. So whats the point in asking them. Your time would be better spent trying to get a high performance L series built.

[TurboSC2]

OPEC, I do agree with you about money being a MAJOR issue.. However, I do have to offer a bit of argument about one of your top 10. The tranny not being strong enough... Seems strong enough to me.. These things aren't made of plastic you know.. Just like any other tranny, they are designed with a certain amount of abuse in mind.

Adding 40 or 50 horsepower isn't going to break the tranny,, powershifting at 6500 every chance you get, will. I'm surprised at just how durable that sucker really is,, I figure with the abuse at the track, and on the street, that we've put our SC2 through since our turbo install, I'm really surprised that I haven't scattered various internals yet..

Just my $0.02
Paul
http://www.geocities.com/turbosc2

[SCTT]

You made our point. There are lotsa women buying SC2's. Having a turbo would bring lotsa men into the fold. Even if Saturn didn't quite break even, it would more than make up for the loss with the increased EXCITEMENT in Saturn. It would showcase Saturn dominance. It would be the premiere millenium American sports car. The days of the big V8's and big weight are over. Time to trim down. Go "Polymer Power." I would buy two alone as soon as they came out with more later. Other Saturn owners in my family and friends might also with a little convincing on my part.

[johan]

As Tim Allen says... "more power" R-R-R

-=John=- 98SC2m

[Bill]

I sent them a similar email last year and actually got shoved aside. Perhaps they're starting to hear from MANY of us who think the same way.
The SC2 skidpad is as good as the BMW 328 (.83 G in some cases). Nobody knows this or cares. People judge power over handling almost every time.
Why not give it some acceleration to match? Even if they only sell a few, it would sell many more of the base models.

The BMW 528 does 0-60 in something like 8 to 8.5 seconds. Everybody thinks they're fast; Why? Because the BMW 540 screams. That's what people remember and judge the brand on. That (1) item they have.

Another example; How many people buy a Camry because it's "essentially a lexus". They associate their daily driver with a lexus which shares alot of its technology.

Point;
If Saturn builds a very quick special edition car, even if they don't sell many of that particular car, it will generate alot of buzz and sell many more of the base models.

Best of luck and let's hope they do it,
Bill

[SCDYNE]

Why do people drive Acura Integras? Because they wish they had a Type R. Some wish so bad that they buy the stickers and paste them on there cars... We have all seen this! Do you honestly think Honda makes a dime off of the production of the 2500 Type R's they sell in a year? Hell NO! The heads alone are all hand finished. Add to that the other non production line items the Type R has on it. There is no way they could make money off them - "Directly".
BUT The company as a whole makes major bucks off of the sales of lower end models and emblems sold at the parts counter... The last part is a joke, but probably true.
Plus, all the exposure Honda gets with it's winning racing teams, the few that are handed out to the Magazines, and tuner companies.

It's called Brand recognition based on desire. No person needs to drive a Type R around every day, but you can bet that everyone, including me, would rather have the Type R over any other model they have....

Saturn needs to establish desire based products.

[TurboSC2]

Or make Saturn "Type R" badges available at the dealer huh? hehe ;)

You know that that nifty little badge, when affixed to your common Civic EX increases the Hp by at least 25! LOL!!!

hehe.. SatuRn
Saturn Type SC
SSC2r

Just some sugestions! LOL
Paul
98 SC2~T

[Plastic Gravity]

Hindsight being 20/20, its fun to dissassemble this old post from OPEC(don't take this personally dude) now that the OLOA coupe has put most of these to bed...

<blockquote><hr><font size="1">Original Post:</font><!--1-->
The top reasons that the Saturn coupe will NEVER be made on the current platform.
10. Tranny can't handle it.
.<hr></blockquote>

Apparently this isn't true. The OLOA car, Pauls SCturbo, and the Saturn drag car aren't destroying them, nor would a production turbo.

<blockquote><hr>
9. The cost is too high to develop a mass produced tranny for the SC-2 that can.
<hr></blockquote>

See above. No need. I can't understand where this one ever started. IF there is ONE piece of the equipment on my 92 SC that I am immensly satisfied with, its the tranny. Nothing has broke, nor have I ever heard of anyone blowing them up, it shifts like a dream(even ten years later)and there's no interesing whining noises coming out of it. The gearing is well matched to the car, etc...

<blockquote><hr>[
8. The majority of coupe buyers are women not men.
<hr></blockquote>[

Ive heard this BS argument before, and I don't buy it. FOUR SOLID reasons...

1st, what is the actual percentage male vs female...IIRC it was like 53/47...not exactly an overwhelming majority, now is it?

2nd, ITs a chicken and the Egg type of argument...why is there a bias toward women? Is it the lack of REAL PERFORMANCE from the engine, or is because Saturn is pushing the car as a womens car? For those of you in the industry, Ford tried this BS attitude with the Probe, and where is the Probe today? Discontinued. Lack of sales, remember. Why? My wife used to own one, not a bad car, but Ford PUSHED it as a womens car...most Male buyers went to the mustang...Saturn has NO MUSTANG. Why would you WANT TO turn away male buyers? So what if women don't want the turbo? There's still the virtually identical SC1 and SC2 for them.

Thirdly, My wife traded in her "womens" coupe on a Jeep Grand Cherokee, with the 4.7L Overhead Cam V-8, with the Quadra drive. In case anyone here is unfamilar with these things, they are SERIOUSLY fast. NO-ONE beats you across the intersection. The AWD means dragstrip quality launches everytime. There's a six available that gets better mileage, and is cheaper, but she picked it out...she's not an agressive person by any means...but she LOVES the power of that vehicle. I have to admit, I'm quite in love with both her, and her Jeep.

Fourth, in case anyone here is blind, the ACURA integra appeals to both WOMEN AND MEN, why? Gee, we here at Saturn know that ONLY WOMEN buy four cylinder FWD coupes, right? C'mon, get real. This goes back to the chicken and the egg argument. Acura is successfully courting both groups. One of the biggest problems at GM and Saturn is that TOO MANY MARKETING PEOPLE ARE REALLY JUST BEAN COUNTERS. Time to let the car guys have at it again.

<blockquote><hr>[
7. Women (most) don't care about Turbo.
<hr></blockquote>[

So what? See above. I get the impression that you or Saturn somehow believe the Turbo would hurt sales of the coupe to women. This is ridiculous. Maybe the sales would be equal if Saturn built something that had performance to back up the good looks. Finding out that the new coupe can barely eek out 9 sec to 60 times is like finding out that the extremely cute girl youve just met is a complete airhead.

<blockquote><hr>[
6. Projected sales would be low.
<hr></blockquote>[

Then project them higher. Do a little asking around. There's plenty of enthusiasim for this car. At least within the population who ACTUALLY BUYS CARS. This seems to be a different subset of the population than the one that makes decisions at Saturn. Also, in case anyone is blind to the news, the current youth generatin is the LARGEST one in history...many of them are now moving out into the world, buying there first cars, or are looking to buy a new one to have some fun with(BTW, GEN Y is NOT ONLY WOMEN) Why do you think all the Japanese makes are introducing products that are intended to reduce there average buyer age. THey are certainly smarter than whomever is calling the shots at Saturn. ALSO, these same people who are telling you sales would be low are the same people who told you that if Saturn owners wanted bigger cars they would buy other GM brands...yeah, that worked out really well.

<blockquote><hr>[
5. Would be a money losing project.
<hr></blockquote>

ABSOLUTELY BS. A Turbo for the 1.9 is virtually a Bolt on job. Youre not reinventing the wheel! Mixing in turbo's on the regular production line would be SO easy, and require very little in the way of support from purchasing, engineering, etc. How can a company in california offer turbo kits for the 1.9 at 2600 bucks, and yet Saturn will lose money adding them at the factory? Hasn't Saturn ever heard of lean manufacturing or value added operations? The Stock internals are sound enough to handle a 5-7psi turbo(volvo does this, they call them low pressure turbos) as is. You add some bigger piping to the exhaust, purchase the turbo from an existing GM supplier, and away you go. I could go on for hours about this. Companies lose money when they THINK about things too long.

<blockquote><hr>[
4. See 5
3. See 5
2. See 5
[QUOTE][

See above. Priced at around 21K(yes, very doable...hell the overpriced 01 SC2 pushes over 20 anyway right now...from a 15K base.) And even if this isn't a big money maker, so what, as long as youre breaking even, you are getting something that Saturn needs more than anything...a sexier image. Put a price on that. You don't build a brand over night, and you don't do it by giving the customer only what you want to sell.

[QUOTE][
1. G.M. is a company driven for sharholder value. They have no interest in developing a turbo coupe. If you want one you will have to do it yourself. If you put one on it will void your warrenty. When you destroy your tranmisson you will only have yourself to blame.
<hr></blockquote>

Why discourage people, its their car. And they should be able to get what THEY WANT out of it. This is more selling of what you want to sell, not what the public would like to buy. As for the tranny...Not likely. GM is an assinine entity that does things bass-ackwards. The whole company needs a big smack to the collective head. How much market share have they lost so far THIS YEAR ALONE, never mind the last ten. BTW, profits from trucks aren't going to keep doubling like the price of Gasoline.

<blockquote><hr>[
DONT GET ME WRONG!!

I would love to have a turbo available. I just am realistic and realize that on the current platform Saturn will NEVER make it available as an option. So whats the point in asking them. Your time would be better spent trying to get a high performance L series built.<hr></blockquote>

Realistic people never would have gone to the moon. Realistic people don't make a killing on the stock market. Realistic people never find the courage to go talk to that cute girl or guy they see at a party or a club. Being realistic won't get you that raise you deserve at work. Realistic people live pretty boring lives. I used to work with a bunch of guys who had that BS attitude at work...they are still stuck there, I moved on to a better job with better pay and a better enviroment. You need to expect, and DEMAND more out of life. I want more out of life. And I don't want a Hiperf L series. I want a turbo SC2. I guess after reading that post, all of us should just sell our Saturns and buy Nissans, or Toyotas then, and stop wasting time on this board.

Best,
-Mark

[TurboSC2]

Plastic Gravity (06-06-2001 11:43 p.m.):

Realistic people never would have gone to the moon. Realistic people don't make a killing on the stock market. Realistic people never find the courage to go talk to that cute girl or guy they see at a party or a club. Being realistic won't get you that raise you deserve at work. Realistic people live pretty boring lives. I used to work with a bunch of guys who had that BS attitude at work...they are still stuck there, I moved on to a better job with better pay and a better enviroment. You need to expect, and DEMAND more out of life. I want more out of life. And I don't want a Hiperf L series. I want a turbo SC2. I guess after reading that post, all of us should just sell our Saturns and buy Nissans, or Toyotas then, and stop wasting time on this board.

Best,
-Mark


Mark, that was beautiful, you moved me.. ;) seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. You hit the nail square on the head throughout your entire post!

Bravo!
Paul McCann
TurboSC2 (http://www.geocities.com/turbosc2)

[SL2Fireball]

IT WOULD PUT AMERICAN MADE CARS BACK INTO THE RACE. WE GOT THE V8'S BUT WE ARE GETTING KILLED IN THE COMPACT RACE....SL2FIREBALL

[Plastic Gravity]

TurboSC2 (06-19-2001 03:23 a.m.):
Plastic Gravity (06-06-2001 11:43 p.m.):

Realistic people never would have gone to the moon. Realistic people don't make a killing on the stock market. Realistic people never find the courage to go talk to that cute girl or guy they see at a party or a club. Being realistic won't get you that raise you deserve at work. Realistic people live pretty boring lives. I used to work with a bunch of guys who had that BS attitude at work...they are still stuck there, I moved on to a better job with better pay and a better enviroment. You need to expect, and DEMAND more out of life. I want more out of life. And I don't want a Hiperf L series. I want a turbo SC2. I guess after reading that post, all of us should just sell our Saturns and buy Nissans, or Toyotas then, and stop wasting time on this board.

Best,
-Mark


Mark, that was beautiful, you moved me.. ;) seriously, I couldn't agree with you more. You hit the nail square on the head throughout your entire post!

Bravo!
Paul McCann
TurboSC2 (http://www.geocities.com/turbosc2)


Thanks Paul! Yeah, not to gloat, but I think that's a good one to mail off to Saturn. When you and Angie(and your new little one) head back to California, drive through Spring Hill, and lay down some nice black streaks of rubber in the parking lot of the Saturn corp offices...perhaps they'll understand then what "turbo does"

BTW...Glad to see youre still around...hasn't been the same around here lately. I've missed your posts from the land of serious performance. Please, post more movies of TurboSC2 in action!!

[DonfromNaples]

all show and no go makes jack a very dull boy.

the SC2 look like sports cars, so now let's give them the heart and power of one...

[HotShot]

You build it I buy it. (Mid 20's professional MAN).

Actually turbo isn't the answer - probably a perkier engine at 150hp or so. (Eclipse GS 140hp).

Also don't forget to get the interior redesigned.... The hyundai tiburon is quicker and has a better interior....

[satrunracer]

Hello, Saturn!! Where's the turbo or even a h.o. version of the 1.9?
Are we really going to continue getting crapped on when honda can get a reliable 140hp from a 1.8l(nonvtec), and GM has produced high output 4cyl. engines before! I used to own a 90 beretta GTZ(stock 180 hp at 6200rpm) so the know how is there. Come on, wake up and
cater to the performance crowd a little more than selling a few parts through the dealers. I would trade my 98 sl1 in a heartbeat for a turbo coupe or dare we dream of a turbo sedan? Please build this car(grovel, grovel)!!! hehe

[TurboSC2]

HotShot (06-19-2001 06:46 p.m.):
Actually turbo isn't the answer - probably a perkier engine at 150hp or so. (Eclipse GS 140hp).

LOL!
Hmm.. I have to disagree, Turbo is the answer!!! Eclipse GS, Perky???? Hmm, ever drive a Eclipse GS? They are Dogs! Opt for the GS-T!

Uh oh.. here goes that "turbo" word again... how does a 210hp 220 ft/lb. DOHC 2.0 tickle your fancy?
Add a few bolt ons, and you are set.. With minor bolt-ons and some decent tuning, my GS-T puts down 260hp and 270ft/lbs. to the wheels and runs mid~low 13's on street tires..

Our SC2 puts down 191hp and 173 ft/lbs on 5 meager psi! That's right about 220ish at the motor.

Sure, with some decent tuning, and knowledge a naturally aspirated motor can be made to produce very respectable hp levels... But forced induction is oh so fun!!! Besides, it makes a cool sound! WOOOSSHHH!! lol! ;p

Paul
TurboSc2

[TurboSC2]

Plastic Gravity (06-19-2001 05:57 p.m.):


drive through Spring Hill, and lay down some nice black streaks of rubber in the parking lot of the Saturn corp offices...perhaps they'll understand then what "turbo does"

Hehe,, not a bad idea at all!!! LOL!

<hmmmm drawing mental image> Paul doing reverse donuts in the parking lot of Saturn Corporate. The putrid smell of burnt Kumho's is overcome by the distinct sound of a spooling turbo! WHOOOSSSHH!!

BTW...Glad to see youre still around...hasn't been the same around here lately. I've missed your posts from the land of serious performance. Please, post more movies of TurboSC2 in action!!

Thanks :) I'm glad to be back here! I was in sort of a limbo funk, trying to justify the ends and means of selling everything. ;)
I'm just glad that the message board is back up! man, I was having withdrawl. LOL! ;p But Charlie came thru and the board looks better than ever!

Hopefully as soon as I get Angie out here, and get the clutch situation resolved, we will be able to get some more kills under our SC's belt. (and maybe some more movies) I really miss driving the car... :( Angie gets to have all the fun... LOL!

Paul
TurboSC2 (http://www.geocities.com/turbosc2)[/quote]

[Mac Gyver]

I look at it this way. Saturn has there heads up there *****'s. When it comes down to it there is no real reason to NOT build the turbo for massproduction. Nothing to loose and every thing to gain. And besides the fact it would make a massive impact on the aftermarket. How? small example, twistec sells a turbo kit for about 4k. If saturn produces a turbo modle that price will be forced down b/c of the availabillaty of the setups from junk yards, and what not, and then even more so the prices for heads and cams and all that stuff would also go down also b/c there would be more of a demand for such items. and then if they made a limmeted AWD modle it would be eclips feaver al over again.

So like i said all and all there is no real reason NOT to produce it.
it would just open up a whole new market of possabillities.

[sc2_94]

O.k. are we talking about the manual or automatic? I have two automatics and one has a non-working switch for the performance/normal mode. I hear that it is common for them to be deactivated rather than fixed. The car still runs great other than that.
Now, show me an SC2 that is convertible and with a "factory performance tuned" package (maybe turbo/maybe not) and those with convertible cavaliers would druel with envy.
:yes:

[Plastic Gravity]

I think the proper way to sum this thread up is:

Dear Saturn,

Why are you such a wuss?

Sincerely yours,

Potential Customers (waiting for you to turn off the Lifetime television, and come out and play)

[planet6racing]

This may be Flame bait, but....

Do you really think it is Saturn that is holding back? Or, is it the people who tell them what to do (aka GM)?

GM already has what they consider a performance division, offering driver excitement. It's called Pontiac.

While I agree that the Saturn's are spirited cars with great handling, I do not feel that a turbo is the answer. Here is why:

1) Compared to current sales volume, less than 1% of the people are looking for it.

2) Saturns are some of the lightest cars (S series, at least) in their market share. I have a feeling (no research was done) that the HP:weight ratio is consistent with other cars in their class.

3) Liability. It is a sad fact that the car manufacturer could (and probably would) be held responsible for the idiot driver that goes out and street races his car and ends up killing someone.

I have worked very hard to make my Saturn into something that I feel will be competitive in the area I plan to race it. I feel that others, who are looking for a turbo kit, or more speed, or a car that can do 9 in the quarter, should reconsider their goals and car combination. If I had to build a car again, I can guarantee it would not have been a Saturn. I could have bought a fully sorted used IT racecar for less than half of what it cost to build mine.

I understand the desire to keep up with the person down the street or the person that keeps on beating you at the autocross, etc. But, these people will always be there (once you start running 9's in the 1320, won't you want to run with the guys/girls in the 8's?) and you need to decide what level you want to run at.

Just my $0.02. Please redirect all flames to /dev/null.

[Plastic Gravity]

Aw, Bill, youre completely missing the point.

Nobody is asking Saturn to build a 9 sec terror. A lot of folks here like the lightwieght, good handling, plastic bodied cars. And we'd like to see the HP can than match the good looks and good manners.

I don't like Pontiac's brand of performance cladding. They are a joke. So if this is the best they can do, we should look elsewhere.

I'm very dissapointed with your attitude about this. Why defend Saturn? Theyve been a chicken-**** for years, its time they realized that. If GM is the problem, then GM needs to realize that, and step away. The current approach isn't working.

[planet6racing]

Chicken poop? Really? I don't think so. They have a business plan and have stuck to it. I wish more companies would do that, instead of trying to go after everything little thing that everyone suggests (like my company does!).

As for defending Saturn, I just understand their business approach. It makes sense to me. I think that the performance of the cars is just fine. If they add more power, it will get re-classed, and then we could see real complaints (not that many people actually use their Saturns in this way).

I think, in order to get Saturn to sit up and take notice, we need to get more involved in the Performance market with the vehicles as they are now. When was the last time you (not just Plastic Gravity, but everyone) attended an event?

<SPC Rally Pitch>

This year, following the tradition of the past 2 years, Saturn Corp. will be attending the SPC rally. It is one of the only times that you will have access directly to Saturn Corp., and can put them in your car, take them around the track at speed, and tell them, face to face, what you really want.

</SPC Rally Pitch>

My suggestion: get involved in an event where your Saturn is visible. James Walker Jr. is a great example. He has just competed in the ARRC (November of 2001), been crowned the fastest non-Honda in ITA competition (he was 4th, behind 3 Hondas), and has a picture of his car on the front cover of SportsCar magazine and in Grassroots Motorsports. Send that to Saturn/GM and let them smoke that!

To summarize, get involved in an organized event and let Saturn know about it. Then, start proposing that they add power to compete at the next level.

P.S. Plastic Gravity: What are you doing the weekend of February 15th-17th? The SPC is having it's annual Chicago Auto Show event and we would love to have you join us. There will be a tech session with an engine tear down and rebuild (going simultaneously), Slot Car racing, the autoshow, a super secret event (SPC code for explosions!), and lots of food and fun. If you want to join us, let me know!

[2001sc2]

01. Because the car really needs the power
02. Because the car really needs the power
03. Because the car really needs the power
04. Because the car really needs the power
05. Because the car really needs the power
06. Because the car really needs the power
07. Because the car really needs the power
08. Because the car really needs the power
09. Because the car really needs the power
10. Because the car really needs the power

~Jim
(subtle hints rule!)

[L300Boy]

11. The car's performance needs to live up to its fast sports car design

Dont get me wrong, the Saturn DOHC 1.9L is a great engine!
There's nothing wrong with the interior or exterior -- perhaps the SCX body kit would be nice though.

Saturn, throw a turbo on it (been done), put it into production, and be done with it. End of story. Watch your precious average owner age drop and sales rise.

1) Compared to current sales volume, less than 1% of the people are looking for it.

..... The assumption that no one wants it is silly. Its 1% because Saturn does not advertise a performance product.

The people that would be increasing this 1% value are actually buying WRX's, Civic SI's, and other vehicles. The 220HP SC featured in C&D was pulling very impressive numbers. A production vehicle (like the SCX concept) in the 220HP-300HP range, although being a severe liability ;) , would be insane. If it was 16k-20kish, it would cause a slight disruption.

Even if Saturn broke even on the SCX (or even build it at a loss), the brand's sales would still be considerably boosted. The WRX and Altima 3.5L manual did wonders... My image of suburu and the altima were drastically changed because of these cars.

[planet6racing]

First, to 2001sc2, I am curious, why does the car need more power? What class are you racing in that you are so underpowered? I recognize the fact that I am not that familiar with drag racing, so maybe you could clue me in. If it is just for the street, well...

To L300boy, do you really think that sales would change? I don't. Additionally, they couldn't just drop a turbo in it. They would need to re-visit the braking system (more power=bigger brakes) and the suspension system (dial out some of the understeer). I really don't think it is as simple as everyone thinks. The OLOA coupe is a great example of this. They visited every system on the car to make sure it could handle the additional demands of the turbo.

I'm sorry to say that the only way a turbo might exist for a Saturn is when the platfom gets shared with Pontiac and Chevy (IMHO, of course).

Ah well, off to bed. Too much looking at computers today, anyway!
:sleep:

[evoandy]

you know what would make my day, seriously? is if saturn used the technology that they used on the AWD system on the vue, developed a totally new 2.0 liter engine with strong internals, turbod it then put an insane FMIC on the car with a big gaping mouth just to show it off. And then released it next january and marketed it (HEAVILY) as a competitor to the Evo and WRX. Can you just imagine a Saturn WRC team? That would be so amazingly sweet. Seriously, subaru, mitsubishi, and Audi make turbocharged AWD sports cars work. Why can't saturn? Saturn really needs to kick this image attached to its name like subaru did when it released the WRX. I would like nothing more than to see saturn at a big World Rally stage going head to head against peugot, mitsu, hyundai, and subaru. That would be incredible. Oh well, thats just my wishful thinking though. Even if Saturn did release a turbocharged coupe, I would have a hard time deciding to buy it. I'm sure it would be a cool car though.

just my 2 cents.

[Plastic Gravity]

Originally posted by planet6racing
First, to 2001sc2, I am curious, why does the car need more power? What class are you racing in that you are so underpowered?

To L300boy, do you really think that sales would change? I don't. Additionally, they couldn't just drop a turbo in it. They would need to re-visit the braking system (more power=bigger brakes) and the suspension system (dial out some of the understeer). I really don't think it is as simple as everyone thinks. :sleep:

What does this have to do with racing Bill? Not everyone wants to race thru cones, or go street racing. I'm an adult, I'm reponsible, and its what I WANT. There's plenty of other 'econorockets' out there. Most of your reasons 'why not' are crap. As for sales, Subura sales jumped dramatically since the WRX came out. It doesn't matter that every single increase in sales is a WRX, as that one car has elevated the WHOLE SUBURA LINE. Nobody used to give them credit for being anything more than the oddball japanese car company with the goofy pleiadies logo, with a nice 4wd system, and a thing for wierd cars. Not anymore.

As for the braking system, well Saturn, you did that one to yourself, the 4wheel discs work great on my SC. Besides, if you want RACING brakes, nothing on a street car is going to cut it anyway. The mechanicals are the least of Saturns problem.

[planet6racing]

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree that I disagree with this. My thoughts on this are that the car was darn quick when I drove it on the street (if it were any quicker, I'd be in jail right now!). If I wanted to keep up with a mustang/camaro, I would have bought a mustang/camaro (hey, for the price, you can't beat it!).

So, with that, I'll repectfully resume my trolling....

But, if you want to tell Saturn corp. directly in a professional manner to add a turbo, there is the SPC Rally this summer. They will be there! (yes, I know, another shameless plug)

[95sl1]

I only have four reasons, but I think they're pretty good:

1: Volkswagon Jetta
Have you driven a Jetta? It's a 4-door sedan, for Pete's sake, but the 4 cyl. kicks. And they even make it with a 6! And people buy them!

2: Toyota Celica. People buy them!

3: Honda Prelude. People (esp. women) buy them!

4: Honda Civic. It comes with several different power levels. And people (esp. women) buy them!


And I don't buy the argument that most Saturns are sold to women, and women don't shop for performance. Sure if you do a survey and ask women how important performance is, they'll rank it pretty low. But if you let them test drive some cars it's a whole different story. Similarly, if you start talking about "1.9 liter dual overhead cam with turbo" in your ads it will turn women off. But make the car cute and fast and you've got a seller.

I don't mean to generalize but that's how marketing people think.

Dave

[L300Boy]

heheh.. that woman/performance issue is right on :-) I went through that when my g/f was test driving VW bugs. She liked the turbo ...

[SaturnDrive]

I really don't see where the argument is here. The transmission thing, they can take it. I powershift mine every chance I get and it has 133,000 miles on it. No problems there. And so what if you don't think women will want it, thats the reason that a lot of men don't buy Saturns, not enough juice. They dont even give them a chance when they see that the "big" engine only has 124 HP. When some guys hear turbo-charger, they go running. Its not gonna cost that much either. Find a good supplier for them, maybe throw on a few extra parts, and make it an option or another engine choice. I dont see any big problems there. And if a ton of them don't sell, still the image is out there that Saturn knows what its doing and people will be watching. If these come out, I'll have one for sure, and I know a lot of other people that will be after 'em too. I think you can find ten reasons in there.