Changing Lower Tranny Transmission Mount

[auxmike]

NOTE:I can only post 4 pics to each post,so that's why this is a multipart post.Charlie,if you can turn this into a one piece "Suit" it would be great!
OK,you wanted pics,here's TON!

DISCLAIMER:I don't recommend you try this at home.I'm just showing you a job I did today.I'm not suggesting you try this.You're better off going to a real mechanic.You could seriously damage the car or get hurt!
This was done on a MANUAL tranny equipped 1997 SL2.I'll bet the auto might be tougher to do,since that tranny is bigger.

Let's begin.
Jack up car,remover drivers {left} front tire.Lug nuts are METRIC 19mm.Use a jackstand for extra safety.
Remove the two pushpin fasteners.Try two small screwdrivers at either end then cutters to grip and pull it out.
http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0054.jpg
Hot Tip:either put silicone spray or some clean oil on the center part you push in.This way next time it will slide out real easy.:yes:


Next,remove the plastic splash shields,there's two parts.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0036.jpg


Make sure your new part matches up.
http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0037.jpg

Loosen and remove lower cradle nut,it's 15mm.


Here's the side view,you'r best off staying here,not under the car.



http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0038.jpg
..On to pt.2

[auxmike]

Part two.

Here's a FSM diagram.You DON'T jack up under the oil pan.Notice where the jack is?

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0056.jpg

Put a decent sized piece of wood under the tranny to proect it from the jack.Don't be a weenie like me and use a tiny piece!



http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0040.jpg

ALLDATA does not state you need to remove or loosen ANY other mounts to do this.So I did'nt mess with the upper torque axis mount.Open the hood so you don't have the engine push it up!
Carefully jack up the tranny.Nice and slow watch and listen as you go.You will hear the threads of the lower nut's stud scraping the mounting hole in the cradle.Once it's out it will pop out towards you a bit.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0041.jpg

Remove the two 10mm bolts at the top of the mount.Use a SIX point socket,these strip real easy!

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0042.jpg
on to part 3!

[auxmike]

Well,looks like the old mount was a bit sagging,no?

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0044.jpg

I found it best to drop in the new mount right on the cradle,no bolts yet.WHY?Because the angle is so off when you bolt them on then attempt to lower into that hole in the cradle.Looked impossible.
I then lowered the jack till it was just resting on the mount to put the two top bolts in.


http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0047.jpg

VERY HARD PART WHERE YOU CAN SCREW UP:
The mount did'nt line right up with the holes.I had to get my Dad to help.I quick grabbed a 4"X4" 8 ft. piece of fence post I keep behind the back seat of my ride for protection.
I had to pry the whole tranny forward while he put in the bolts.
I'm sure this could damage something or crush a brake line.SO DON'T DO THIS!

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0048.jpg

After I got those bolts in they were torqued down to 24ft. lbs. .Use a SIX point socket!My bolts stripped right away with the 12 point socket.


http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0049.jpg
On to part 4.
I hate doing this like this but only 4 lousy pics per post!

[auxmike]

Replace the lower 15mm nut to cradle with a NEW one,torque to 37 ft. lbs.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0039.jpg

Look everything over,replace the shields and push pins.Remount tire,put on 4 lug nuts.Torque to 103 ft. lbs.

http://img55.photobucket.com/albums/v169/auxmike/DSCN0052.jpg

This took about an hour to do.I think this will make a big difference more for the auto tranny owners.
The mount is P/N 21012951.$33.34 cost.15mm locknut P/N 21006320.56 cents cost.I reused the 10mm bolts.
If any one has a question or comment,or if a tech sees some major boo boo's here,please chime in!
:flag:
I hope someome can make this into one big post for me..

[coliphage]

Great job!

One question here:

Isn't the torque for trans mount bolt 52 ftlbs?

[auxmike]

No sir,
That's the "dogbone" mount-to-cradle bracket and dogbone mount-to-engine bracket fastener's torque spec.Too much for this application.
You'd probably snap those little bolts off or strip the aluminum with that kinda grip!
I checked all this stuff with my ALLDATA acount.
:o:

[Luke]

Mike

Your pictures made all the difference to this opertion. I can fully understand the added efforts you had to go through to include these pictures. Most appreciative.

Can I be your friend. LOL !!!!!

[auxmike]

Thanks Luke.I like taking pics.:D
You already did this,right?

[eljefino]

I like your photo quality, it feels like I am there.

http://i.walmart.com/i/p/00/02/13/31/84/0002133184379_215X215.jpg

I use one of these when I photograph dismantled cars mid-job because of the grease on my hands and desire not to gunk up my nice camera. Pretty junky thing from wally's. But your pix rock this board.

[geartooth94]

I got's a question!

Just how did you get away with not removing the battery and tray for this job? I'm guessing you don't have ABS or something, otherwise the trans. would have hit that like I think it would do on mine.

[Luke]

Fm Mike
You already did this,right?

Yes.

[auxmike]

Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
I got's a question!

Just how did you get away with not removing the battery and tray for this job? I'm guessing you don't have ABS or something, otherwise the trans. would have hit that like I think it would do on mine.

Hmmm....
Well,I don't have ABS.
ALLDATA made no mention of hitting anything either.I have a K&N cone filter so all that airbox stuffs not in the way.
Don't know if I jacked it up high enough to hit the batt. tray either.
I only needed jack up about 1.5 inches to clear the mounting stud.
You guys are all bringing to light stuff that it would be good to be sized up BEFORE attempting this.
I just winged it as I went.The group can "fine tune" the procedure.Everyone benefits then.
I DID remember to open the hood though....:grnjump:

[auxmike]

Originally posted by eljefino
I like your photo quality, it feels like I am there.
*****Thanks!Yeah, the camera got a little dirty.


I use one of these when I photograph dismantled cars mid-job because of the grease on my hands and desire not to gunk up my nice camera. Pretty junky thing from wally's. But your pix rock this board.
*****I use a Nikon Coolpix 2000.2 MegaPixel.Has great closup capabilities.
http://www.megapixel.net/reviews/nikon-cp2000/gfx/cp2000-frontleft.jpg

[Red97sc2]

About re-installing the bolts: Couldn't you have put the two upper bolts on and the lower bolt, then, as you lowered the assembly down, guided the mount so that the lower bolt would start to enter the lower bolt hole? Just trying to figure out a better way than the 4x8 that you used.

Also, what was the end result? How is your ride now after the mount was installed? After I replaced my TAM I noticed a HUGE difference in the vibs inside the SL2.

Thanks!:)

BTW: Nice job on the step by steps. For some one like me, I really need pics.

[auxmike]

I tried putting the two upper bolts in loose,but it did'nt have enough play in it to reach the stud hole in the cradle.The whole transaxle moved back and towards me a bit.
I was'nt thrilled about using the wood,but I just reacted using the first thing I could grab.I DON'T recommend the wood as stated in the report.
I already had put in two new dog bones and the upper torque axis mount.So my car was already pretty smooth.I think the car jerks a bit less when I shift though.
Remember I have a 5 speed,so I'm in neutral at the stoplights...
I appreciate your thoughts and comments.Hopefully betwwen the group the DIY method of doing this can be perfected..:cool:

[Luke]

Fm Aux Mike
I only needed jack up about 1.5 inches to clear the mounting stud.
I have yet to figure it out for me, but it simply did not turn out that way for me....I'm happy for you, though.

[auxmike]

Luke,I think if you were jacking up under the oilpan you were quite far away from the area that needed the boost.
By jacking on the tranny housing itself,the mount rises at an extreme angle quickly.
I would have never though of trying this if it were'nt for my ALLDATA account.
It's a tricky procedure,and I'm glad you had success in your venture.
:cool:

[Luke]

Mike

Actually, I followed your steps, which is why I cannot figure out why I had to back off and start with lifting the entire engine/transmission unit.

[auxmike]

Luke, I thought you hoisted up the whole thing from the oilpan and that's why it was
such a hassel.
Do you have ALLDATA account?What I did is how they tell you to do it.I thought it was odd too,not removing or loosening/checking clearance etc. before starting.
Getting the drive train up was easy,getting the new mount lined up was not.
Do you have an auto tranny?I suspect the auto trans is bigger in mass than the manual.Probably tougher to change.
BTW,my procedure applies to my experience to the manual only folks!I don't know how to do this or what to watch out for if you have an auto trans.Please bear that in mind..
Luke I apoligise if I misunderstood what I thought I read in your post when you first reported on your experience.I value your knowledge!
:D

[Luke]

Fm Mike
Luke, I thought you hoisted up the whole thing from the oilpan and that's why it was such a hassel.

No, I actually started by lifting the transmission unit, as the FSM directed. Upon lifting, the upper transmission kept hitting the frame area just behind the battery tray, afterwhich the continued lifting would lift the car. It was weird... of course, it resulted in my not being able to get the mount's prodruding nut, out.
Do you have an auto tranny?I suspect the auto trans is bigger in mass than the manual.Probably tougher to change.
BTW,my procedure applies to my experience to the manual only folks!
And of course, I did not read your "original statement fully" , as I note below:
This was done on a MANUAL tranny equipped 1997 SL2.I'll bet the auto might be tougher to do,since that tranny is bigger.
Yes, my car is an automatic.
No I don't have an ALLDATA accounts.
I apologize if I misunderstood....
Never necessary......but thoughtful. Thank you.

[auxmike]

Well Luke at least we now know that changing the auto mount is DIFFERENT from changing the manual mount!:dizzy:
I noticed this on my brothers '95 SL2,that auto trans is quite a beast!
And yes,I did cover my hide by mentioning this was MANUAL TRANS ONLY folks!:D
Also,state I don't recommend trying this yourself,just for that reason,it's a hard procedure if you're inexperienced,unsure,or skittish........

[geartooth94]

Luke, maybe you can get a Dremel-type tool in there or a rotary cutter of some sort to cut off the stubborn bit of bolt that won't come out on its own.

Then you could finnagle the new mount in somehow. Don't know if this would work for you though.

[Luke]

Thanks, but I've already finished the job, but it certainly was a challenge. In the future, your suggestion will be on my mind.

[gm7]

Many Thanks to auxmike for the procedure.....excellent. I need to replace mine at some point on my '01 SC2 5 spd as I have windo welded my two dogbones and replaced the upper torque-axis mount. A question please...auxmike what was the net change in driving performance with your 5 speed car after changing the trans mount? These cars are known for driveline rock in lower gears when getting on and off the throttle with the clutch out. Does a fresh mount reduce this tendency? Was curious if there was a noticable difference after changing the mount as the two dogbones allow quite a bit of driveline rotation in profile and presume a fresh solid mounting of the trans to the sub frame will quiet this down a bit. Please let us know.
Thanks,
George

[auxmike]

gm7:
I guess I've been fixated on how it feels at idle more than looking for a jerking motion while driving,I confess.
I can still chirp 'em from 1st to 2nd in my basicly stock moded car.
I'd say judging by how much more squished the old mount was vs. the nice "tall" new mount,it was time for a fresh unit anyways.
I can't say if I notice any jerking while driving because I guess I don't!
Sorry if this seems a pretty weak answer to a great question.
Hey,for under $40,it's about an hour's worth of work that can be considered fun if you like to tinker like I do.
Since you have an '01,you may still be in decent shape with the original mount.
I had done this on a '97 with 71k on the clock myself.
DON'T USE THE WOOD FENCEPOST METHOD!:no:
Take your time,jacking up and down SLOWLY as you watch.The axle boot on the tranny bends A LOT when you jack it up,be careful...

[gm7]

Thanks for your response Mike. As you say I may still have some life in that mounton my '01 car. Your procedure is terrific and is a big help to all that will take this on including me. Thanks for your contribution to the board.
Best Regards,
George

[FrozenPilot]

I didn't see differences for the AUTOMATIC crowd, so since I just tackled that job, heres what I found:
-You will need to remove the battery and battery tray to lift the tranny high enough
-You may not need to remove a transmission strut bolt, but it may help.
-You will need two jacks, i will get to this in a sec
-Unbolt the engine mount from the bracket on the rail, jack up the engine under the oil pan for starters
-Now get your other jack and place that under the tranny, keep an eye on how that is lifting, you may need to pull the engine toward the passenger side to get enough clearance
-With that done, replace the mounts and start working in reverse

[Luke]

Super outline

[the_skin_eater]

im still tryin to figure out why u have an 8' long post in the back of ur car??where u fit that? i just cant see sumone standin there swingin a piece of wood that big..ha

[emptypockets]

A jack under your oil pan?... Isn't that kind of like standing on a pop can?

[auxmike]

You must put a piece of wood between the oil pan and jack,so you don't dent the pan.:cool:

[TedL]

I wound up removing this mount as part of the procedure to tighten the input and output shaft nuts.

To answer the brake master cylinder question: The FSM noted that if you have ABS, you must disconnect the master cylinder from the booster and lift it a bit.

Also, you want to have the floor jack under the tranny, as Mike shows, not under the (engine) oil pan.

I managed to get the mount back in place without major problems. First, I tried dropping the mount into place, and loosely installing the 15 mm nut from the bottom. Then I lowered the tranny and looked to install the 10 mm bolts. The alignment was off by a few mm, and I've learned not to try installing bolts into aluminum when the alignment is less than perfect.

So, off came the 15 mm nut and up went the tranny. I then installed the mount loosely to the tranny with the 10 mm bolts, and lowered the tranny while guiding the mount stud into the cradle rail. I did a little bit of push/pull, but don't recall needing any pry bar. Before the mount got down to seating on the rail, I torqued the two 10 mm bolts, then let it bottom, then tightened the 15 mm nut.

Perhaps my angles were a little different, becuse my cradle was dropped about as far as can be with the two left side bolts loosened (but not removed). In any case, the moral of the story is make sure the holes line up before installing the two 10 mm bolts, don't use them to force alignment. Aluminum is not very forgiving!

[auxmike]

Originally posted by TedL


Also, you want to have the floor jack under the tranny, as Mike shows, not under the (engine) oil pan.
[/B]

This is correct!I was thinking of the upper engine mount install where you would need jack up the oil pan.Not the case with the lower mount.
.You don't want to jack up the oil pan to change that lower mount,won't work.
Don't do that!

[SL1Joe]

Looks like I will be doing this repair in the very near future, I had the front of the car up on the stands today trying to pinpoint the source of a noise the sucker makes when making left turns and accelerating (almost sounds like rubbing but high pitched and goes away once I attain a certain speed). Anyhow while I was at it I removed the splash shields to check the tranny mounts since I had the tire off anyway why not, still tryin to stamp out all the vibrations in the car (I'm still not convinced it's a normal Saturn trait but thats just me). I noticed the lower tranny mount is just about shot *ding* *ding* I believe we have now discovered the vibration source :) and it would also explain why only the left side of the dash rattles. Dog Bone mounts appear to be fine will probably replace the upper motor mount as well couldn't hurt right..

[Luke]

SL1Joe

We'd appreciate your follow-up on your efforts; However, would you move them, and initiate the results, to the Tech Tack forum. As you know, this, How-To forum, is used to submit the actual "procedures" for work efforts. :yes:

Just a thought.... :yes:

[SL1Joe]

SL1Joe

We'd appreciate your follow-up on your efforts; However, would you move them, and initiate the results, to the Tech Tack forum. As you know, this, How-To forum, is used to submit the actual "procedures" for work efforts. :yes:

Just a thought.... :yes:

I intend to Luke, was mearly posting a reply.

If however I do discover another way to do it I'll post those thoughts here to share them with everyone else.

[Luke]

FM Joe
If however I do discover another way to do it I'll post those thoughts here to share them with everyone else.

:yes: , Please

[frog8546]

I am SO glad I found this forum! I am not tech savvy and really appreciate the pics. I've known for a couple of weeks that the tranny mount needed replacing and was skeptical about trying it myself, but couldn't see forking out the cash to have it done. :yes:

[Civic&Saturn]

Just did this procedure over the weekend and have a little more info to share that others might find useful.

First of all, there were no clearance issues at all in the engine compartment. This was on an SL2 with manual tranny and ABS, and I did not have to remove anything for clearance.

Secondly, I pretty much followed the procedure as detailed, although I loosened (but did not remove) the upper bolts prior to lifting the transmission with the jack.

Third, I also saw how the new mount did not quite line up properly, but it really was no problem. When the old mount was raised high enough to clear the cradle, it popped out (towards the brake assembly) and back (towards the firewall). I put the new mount in the cradle, put the cradle nut on just enough to keep it from falling out, then my dad gently tilted the new mount towards the brake assembly as I slowly lowered the transmission. As it lowered, the upper bolt holes lined back up, and my dad could start both bolts by hand. I then finished lowering the transmission and tightened both the upper bolts and the cradle nut. No 2x4 necessary! :)

Thanks to the original poster and everyone else who contributed. This procedure was fairly easy to do because of the info shared here.