The Relay and other items

[2NDSOUT]

When I pulled into work this morning, I parked next to a Chevy Venture. The more that I looked at that Mini-Van, the more I thought how much it is the Saturn Relay. I've read all of the discussions on the board about them rebadging and whatnot, and I am almost thinking...what would be the possibility that Chevy struck a deal with Saturn to sell them the unsold Chevy Ventures that they made, ship them to Tennessee...Saturn redoes a few things and puts the Saturn logo onto the van and sells them without even having to build one single mini-van....they already exist...

what is the chance of this actually happening?
And Has this happened before?
(Example: I mean physically transferring a vehicle made by Chevrolet, that is made in Michigan...then Saturn buys the vehicles Wholesale FROM Chevrolet, and Chevy then ships them to Spring Hill, where they are retooled by Saturn and Saturn removes the Chevy insignia, etc...therefore saving Saturn from actually having to build any NEW vehicles and thus giving them to time to outfit Spring Hill for production of the 2005-2006 line of cars)

Discussion on this?

Also two things...I saw on Saturn's Website the first prototype made in 1984 of the first Saturn...it looks alot like a mix between the Chrysler Lebaron and the L-Series...it's in my members gallery...check it out.

Another thing too...on Saturn's Website.... saw a picture of a convertible that had a single exhaust on the backend...body design from the back looked similar to the Porsche Boxter...is that the Sky from the backside or ?

[walt]

My understanding was the Relay was a all new ground up vehicle which would be shared by Chevrolet and Buick and Pontiac.I dont think it shares any of the Ventures components.Porsche is not related in anyway to G.M..

[Jeff P]

The short answer to your question is no, that's definitely not what happened with the Relay.

The long answer: The current Venture is going bye-bye soon. It will be replaced by a new model which from what I can tell is based on a heavily modified Venture chassis. This new model will be sold as the Relay, the Venture, the Buick Terrazza, and as a Pontiac I believe. These will all basically be the same, but not the same as the old Venture.

jeff

[VTHokie00SL2]

Originally posted by walt
My understanding was the Relay was a all new ground up vehicle which would be shared by Chevrolet and Buick and Pontiac.I dont think it shares any of the Ventures components.

Not true, it's the same old GM minivan platform, with some updates. Supposedly, they modified the frame to improve the pathetic offset frontal crash test performance. Still, a new frame would allow for more improvement, obviously. I think that platform is due for retirement.

Even if the new Relay proves to be competent, it's a vehicle that makes me think "so what?". It's just another minivan, and a dated looking one at that. It looks about as inspired as an early 90's Dodge Caravan. It seems GM is about a decade behind in the minivan game.

[2NDSOUT]

Walt,

I know that Porsche isn't a subsidary of GM. I am a Porsche enthusiast as well as a Saturn enthusiast. What I was pointing out is that on the website there is the sky convertible, but the back end of the convertible that they have pictured looks very much like the back end of a porsche boxter, especially the single tail end exhaust....

[FireMate]

Actually, it will be called the "Chevy Uplander". I've got pics.. different looking for sure than the Relay

[GR898SL2]

The GMT201 (internal name for the Relay, Uplander, Montana SV6 and Terraza) is a heavily modified version of the '97-'04 U-body minivan with attention paid to improved crashworthiness and packaging the 3500 motor, hence the new nose. This quartet of minivans, or CSVs, as GM creatively refers to them, will serve as transitional product until the Lambda-based replacements are ready (MY 2008 at the earliest). :rolleyes:

:flag:

[KoolVue]

speaking of a porsche boxter, this past weekend I was tempted to trade my VUE in for a 1998 Boxter covertible with an auto gear box that was priced at a mere $24,000.00 at a local exotic import dealer. That is a heck of a good price on a used Porshe. I didn't realize they were that affordable. I decided to be realistic and keep my VUE, but it was a nice thought.

[xFan]

The GMT201 (internal name for the Relay, Uplander, Montana SV6 and Terraza) is a heavily modified version of the '97-'04 U-body minivan with attention paid to improved crashworthiness and packaging the 3500 motor, hence the new nose. This quartet of minivans, or CSVs, as GM creatively refers to them, will serve as transitional product until the Lambda-based replacements are ready (MY 2008 at the earliest).

MAD Magazine translation: The 3500 engine didn't fit in the old nose, so they stuck a new one on it and spin it as "crashworthiness" modifications to distance themselves from the vehicles terrible crashworthiness record. :D

[mars_volta]

Man, I dont know if I want to buy a vehicle intended to appease sales until the 'real' van comes out. Yikes! :no:

"transitional product" LOL

MV

[GR898SL2]

Originally posted by mars_volta
Man, I dont know if I want to buy a vehicle intended to appease sales until the 'real' van comes out. Yikes! :no:

"transitional product" LOL

MV

Yeah, I chuckle at the idea of 'transitional product', but it's not a laughing matter when potential customers shop elsewhere and market share continues to head south. Market savvy customers are likely to pass up their new CSVs for a Sienna or Odyssey and quite honestly, I don't fault them for doing so.

If GM doesn't pick up market share in the minivan segment, the reason will be painfully obvious. Four versions of the same product isn't necessarily better.:rolleyes:

:flag:

[xFan]

Four versions of the same product isn't necessarily better.

Especially when it's four versions of a rehash of the same van that's been in the market since 1997. :ugh:

[KrgION03]

Originally posted by FireMate
Actually, it will be called the "Chevy Uplander". I've got pics.. different looking for sure than the Relay

wow.....you do realize the only difference between the two is the front bumper, right?

To me, they look identical

[KrgION03]

In response to the first post...

you do know that Chevy and Saturn are basically the same company, right?

How could GM sell it's own minivans to itself?

[2NDSOUT]

Yes I know that they are the same company...but whose to say that they wouldn't do something like this....

Chevys=Michigan
Saturn=Tennessee

What will see next?...
A Plant where Pontiacs are specially built in Hawaii?

[Citation84]

That 84 Saturn looks like a thinly disguised Cavalier 4 door. Look at the lines.
Have they come full circle with the Relay?

[EnglishSL2]

Originally posted by Citation84
That 84 Saturn looks like a thinly disguised Cavalier 4 door. Look at the lines.
Have they come full circle with the Relay?

What 84 Saturn?

[piney]

Originally posted by EnglishSC2owner
What 84 Saturn?

See his gallery picture of the first rebadged Saturn that, thank God, was never made.

The Relay and its many siblings (Can a Subaru and Saaaaab minivan be far away??) is a Venture from the a-pilars rearward. There was not any "extensive" reworking on the most visible part of the vehicle.

To me, it is just rebadged late-1980s technology. How Lutz could allow this to happen is beyond me.

[EnglishSL2]

Ah yes! I've seen the '84 Saturn in 2NDSOUT's gallery now. You're right, thank god that didn't go into production. It is very bland looking and very obviously a J-car derivative.

Actually Subaru did build a minivan once: The tiny E12 Libero. See this website for pictures:
www.klein-aber-fein.de/ralph/english/subaru.htm

It was only sold in Japan and mainland Europe. Weird looking little vans...

[eRic 02sc2]

just noticed something about the 3.5L v6 in the Relay vs. the 3.5L v6 in the VUE. the Relay 3.5L v6 makes 200 hp and 220 lb-ft using pushrods (OHV) and 2 valves per cylinder and a distributor. it's cast iron block with cast aluminum heads. the VUE 3.5L v6 makes 250 hp and 242 lb-ft and is 4 valve per cylinder single overhead cam (sohc) distributorless coil on plug design. it's aluminum alloy block and aluminum heads.

[Caprice]

Originally posted by eRic 96sc2
just noticed something about the 3.5L v6 in the Relay vs. the 3.5L v6 in the VUE. the Relay 3.5L v6 makes 200 hp and 220 lb-ft using pushrods (OHV) and 2 valves per cylinder and a distributor. it's cast iron block with cast aluminum heads. the VUE 3.5L v6 makes 250 hp and 242 lb-ft and is 4 valve per cylinder single overhead cam (sohc) distributorless coil on plug design. it's aluminum alloy block and aluminum heads.

and I'll bet the honda one gets better fuel mileage... hehe

[mikthehickNC]

you know, that 84 Saturn looked pretty awesome for its day...nice lookin car for 84 :)

[eRic 02sc2]

oh barf. you mean the one that looked like a ford tempo or chevy corsica?

[mikthehickNC]

I didn't mean awesome now, I meant in 84. My dad's Tempo GL was a HOT car in 1985, he got all the women lookin at him.

[kg6mvb]

Originally posted by mikthehickNC
I didn't mean awesome now, I meant in 84. My dad's Tempo GL was a HOT car in 1985, he got all the women lookin at him.

Tempo and HOT car should NEVER be used together (unless you are talking about the interior - A/C shot, 3 of 4 windows wouldn't go down). My previous car was a '92 Tempo. That car was ugly when it rolled off the assembly line, and just got worse over the years.

Now that I think about it, it may have influenced me to buy a Saturn. I never cared where I parked it, as it had almost no paint left, and another dent, who would notice.

Now I go out and buy a new car...and I choose the plastic one. Now even though my car looks HOT, I don't have to park a mile away (thanks to polymer).

Tom

[mikthehickNC]

Back in 1985 tho...that Tempo was actually a good car. It ran for 17 years until it combusted as my car in the driveway. I'll never own a Ford just because I want to be different from my dad's choice in cars (the explorer is his), and therefore, a loyal saturn owner i am.