Cleaning the Combustion Camber Using Water?

[amazinghl]

Do I just take off the intake tube and spray water with the spray bottle or what?

[Saturn-Eh!]

I take the intake tube off of the throttle body, and pour the water (slowly) in front of the throttle plate. The airflow will "suck" the water into the engine. Make sure you rev the engine up to about 2000 rpm when you do this, and start with a small amount of water until the engine starts to bog a little...

This has a greater effect if done when the engine is hot.

If you want a good indication of what gets flushed out of the engine, look on the pavement under the tailpipe after five minutes of this.

I do mine every couple of months or so... No pinging, unless I lug it in 5th...

[Twin_Cam]

Interesting, never heard of this procedure. Cleans the cylinder you say? Gets rid of carbon, or just cleans the surfaces?

[Saturn-Eh!]

"steam cleans" the combustion chamber. The same thing happens with a blown head gakset, coolant/water will clean the cylinder out completely.

[Applefool]

Would misting with a spray bottle accomplish the same thing? Not sure how comfortable I would be pouring water into the throttle body. Definitely interested in this cleaning procedure though.

[tightsaturn96]

I once heard a story about a mechanic who did this regularly for people. His assistant thought that he would do it just like the mechanic did, only he poured too much water in. The results were not pretty I hear. Moral of the story is to be careful!

[ProDarwin]

Hmmm... interesting. I would also feel safer misting with a spray bottle.

[TIMSPEED]

Harry,
A product called "SeaFoam" has the same effect, only greater cleaning power, and it's safer than water. I'd try it, it helped my friend pass smog. :)
It's easy to use, you just pull the vacuum line from your brake booster and stick it in the can and then start the car. It'll either suck the bottle dry and keep running, or the car will stall. If it sucks the can dry and keeps running, turn it off and let it sit for about 45 minutes. (If the car stalls, start it up again, until it sucks out all the seafoam.) After the 45 minutes, start the car. (you may have to keep the car running with a little throttle.)
Warning: The car is gonna smoke like CRAZY!! This is the crud burning off, this is good. I just did to my cousin's car and I plan to do it to my SC2. You MIIIIGHT have to buy new spark plugs after using SeaFoam, because SOMETIMES it fouls them...But it's really good to use. :yes:

[haplo06]

Hello there, anyone know where to get sea foam in canada or it's equal.....I have never heard of it before.
thank's

[auxmike]

I wonder what effect this has on the two o2 sensors and the 2 cats in my car's emissions system.
All that junk has to pass by them on the way out.
:ugh:

[ProDarwin]

Originally posted by auxmike
I wonder what effect this has on the two o2 sensors and the 2 cats in my car's emissions system.
All that junk has to pass by them on the way out.
:ugh:

Hmmm... That is a good point. I just put a new cat on, don't want to clog it already.

[Applefool]

I would like to try this out, just need a real good idea about how much water exactly to use and at what rate should the engine consume that amount. I am not looking to destroy my engine at this time as the new one is not yet built.

[amazinghl]

Originally posted by Saturn-Eh!

If you want a good indication of what gets flushed out of the engine, look on the pavement under the tailpipe after five minutes of this.


I poured at least a qt of water in the engine. Tailpipe had NOTHING come out.

Also, is steam suppose to come out at the valve cover hole where it connects to the air intake tube?

[auxmike]

Perhaps you should drain your oil and see if the water ended up in the crankcase.Don't think you should see steam coming out the valve cover!
You are a brave soul,I give you credit for trying this,I hope it's done no harm to the internals though...:rolleyes:

[amazinghl]

Thanks for your useful reply.

In case you don't know, the by-product of combustion is water.

[auxmike]

Originally posted by amazinghl

In case you don't know, the by-product of combustion is water.
Yes,from the tailpipe it's normal,but not usually from the valve cover vent tube!:p

[Applefool]

A quart eh? How did you trickle the water in, and how much at a time?

[Saturn-Eh!]

Perhaps some clarification...

When I do this, I will end up using between a quart and a gallon of water, depending on the degree of carbon deposits/pinging I suspect the engine has.

Remember - have the engine hot...

I will pour the water into the throttle body (remember... High idle!about 2000 rpm) at about the same rate one would pour cream into a cup of coffee... in a stream about 1/4" around... If done correctly, then engine will start to stumble, at which point I will open the throttle a little further. I try to reach a median with the engine stumbling slightly at about 2000 rpm. at this speed, after

a quart of water at this rate will have you pouring for about two minutes, a gallon closer to 5 or 6 minutes...

As long as the engine is running and not stumbling badly or stalling, you run no risk of hydraulically locking/damaging your engine.

The byproduct of this procedure is steam, and carbon... nothing that will harm a catalytic converter. If you start pouring solvents/cleaners into the engine, then the converter will have to deal with their byproducts, but unless you pour solvents/cleaners for a long long time, your converter is safe.

Steam from the valve cover tube is normal, and may be increased over normal (as AmazingHL pointed out, water vapour is a byproduct of the combustion of gasoline) depending on the ring wear in your engine. Unless you stalled the engine, or accidentally poured the water into the oil filler cap, water will not end up in your crankcase...

[robh456]

As far as clogging the O2 sensor or catalytic converter, unless the cleaner has some bizarre in-organic compounds like lead or something in it, there shouldn't be any permanent harm. If carbon does get on them, running the engine at a fast idle for a few minutes should clean off at least the O2 sensor, and probably the converter as well..

[Applefool]

I did this today with a spray bottle and didn't really notice much of any difference. I probably didn't use enough water. I used a full spray bottle, maybe 16 oz or so, and held the throttle open and just sprayed it in. it got slightly stumbly a couple times, but i just compensated a bit with the throttle. Not sure if it did any good. Didn't really notice anything making it out the tailpipe.

[Craig]

I set up a water injection system on my '95 SW2, using the airbox resonator muffler as a container for water/alcohol and running a length of vacuum hose to a brass aquarium valve and on to an unused port on the throttle body ('94 and down use this port for the EGR). This has worked pretty good; lower emissions, better gas mileage, improved performance (especially with alcohol), and the combustion chambers must be carbon-free, because at the last 30K service the plugs were very clean.

[amazinghl]

Detail with pictures, please.

How much lower emission? How much better gas milage? How much water? How much performance?

[92saturnsl2]

I did this procedure today using about 2 quarts of water.

I poured the water in on the fast side, the engine started to stumble on more than one occasion. Upon completing, the engine still misfired a little bit for at least 30 seconds or so, then continued to run normal.

There was a small puddle of water on the ground, and heavy steam was coming out of the tailpipe for at least another 30 seconds. The "steam" did resemble oil burning somewhat, as it had a slight blue hue to it, but it did not smell as if any oil was burning.

Well see if it did any good after the drive to/from work tomorrow. Thanks for the tip!

[paramour]

Man, I haven't heard of this procedure for many years. My dad's old mechanic was a big proponent of this; I remember doing it to my dad's '71 Olds 98.

[mclarenf1gtrv12]

yes i checked this post and i was wondering something.my CAR HAS ABOUT 10,265 MILES ON IT. should i do it this early in engine life and will it make a DIFFERNCE OR DOES THIS PROCESS ONLY WORK SUBSTANSALLY ON HIGH MILEAGE ENGINES .???:dizzy:

[92saturnsl2]

It certainly wouldn't hurt, however I doubt much carbon has accumulated on an engine that new.

I suppose if you do this religiously (i.e every 10k or whatever interval), the carbon would not have a chance to build up significant amounts, and may help in the long run.

[auxmike]

Where does the carbon go?Will it clog up the exhaust valves of you free up all that carbon in one shot?

[Applefool]

The water softens the carbon and mixes with it causing it to burn out of the cylinders in the form of steam. I wouldn't do it to an engine that new. You also have to be pretty careful with this procedure as a little too much water will be the end of that nice new engine.

[Petey]

I this the same thing as putting MMO into the crankcase, fuel system, and/or doing a piston rign soak with it?

[diestrutionomeg]

I just performed this procedure yesterday, used a half gallon of water. No problems at all, lots of steam coming from the tailpipe, and a nice black suit left on the cement... opps. However, afterwords, i got in, and drove it off. I noticed a gain in power, and today i pulled the plugs, they were almost as clean as when i got them. Thanks for the procedure.
Now, how often do we do this to keep everything nice and clean?
-Omnicron
92 SL2 133,xxx

[thewretched]

this might be a dumb question, but how do you know how high you're revving it if you're outside pouring water into it?

[splat]

go inside and rev it...listen to it...then match that up while you're on the outside...be safe do it to about 2500...another thing you can do is a 50/50 mix of denatured alcohol and water.

[David 93 SL2m]

This is an interesting thread! Following this procedure with either water or a solution of water and alcohol sounds like a good idea.

I am curious. Could we do this with Berryman B-12 or the popular Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) too? If so, how would the results compare to doing the cleaning with either water or water/alcohol? Better? Same? Worse? Or would this be a bad idea since these two products are probably flammable?

[amazinghl]

They're too rich to burn, like carb cleaner. Don't pour them in, spray them if you must.

[92saturnsl2]

I doubt those products are water soluble. MMO and other strong solvents will probably burn before they do much of anything as they are not in the combustion chamber long enough.

[David 93 SL2m]

Thanks. I'll give it a try using water.

[thewretched]

awesome.

I just tried this (and I am by no means a mechanic. It took me more time to figure out how to get the hose off of the TB that to do the whole process). I used about 1/2 gallon of water. I'm not exactly sure how much stuff I got out, though there was a decent sized black ring on my driveway.

Im not even sure if I did it correctly. I think I may have only been pouring at about 1.5-2K instead of 2-2.5k. There was only heavy steam about 1/3 of the time (usually when the engine started to stumble and I gave it a little more juice)

But I took her on a highway run afterward, and it felt smoother, and idling at red lights seemed considerably smoother.

so, thanks. maybe ill try it again in another couple of weeks and see if I missed any :)

[David 93 SL2m]

Originally posted by amazinghl
I poured at least a qt of water in the engine. Tailpipe had NOTHING come out.Originally posted by Applefool
I did this today with a spray bottle and didn't really notice much of any difference. I probably didn't use enough water. I used a full spray bottle, maybe 16 oz or so, and held the throttle open and just sprayed it in. it got slightly stumbly a couple times, but i just compensated a bit with the throttle. Not sure if it did any good. Didn't really notice anything making it out the tailpipe. I did it today using 2 quarts of water after a long highway drive. The engine stumbled and jumped around a lot. Several times and again at the end I checked the tailpipe and the ground below. Nothing came out - no steam, no dark clouds, and nothing on the ground. Maybe amazinghl, Applefool, and I already had clean combustion chambers? ;)

[auxmike]

David,how did you introduce the water into the throttle body?

[thewretched]

Originally posted by David 93 SL2m
I did it today using 2 quarts of water after a long highway drive. The engine stumbled and jumped around a lot. Several times and again at the end I checked the tailpipe and the ground below. Nothing came out - no steam, no dark clouds, and nothing on the ground. Maybe amazinghl, Applefool, and I already had clean combustion chambers? ;)

even if it were clean, there would be at least a little steam.

its entirely possible that you just didn't pour the water fast enough. I know that I only got the steam clouds when I poured in very liberal amounts. Try it again in a few weeks, just be ready to nudge that throttle a bit more :fish:

:grnjump:

[David 93 SL2m]

Originally posted by auxmike
David,how did you introduce the water into the throttle body? I took my IceMan air intake system off and slowly poured the water with my right hand while revving the engine with my left hand. Admittedly some of the water was not making it into the throttle body; it was going down onto the things below and then onto the ground. I'm telling you, the engine jumped around like it was freaking out on drugs or something! :whoa:

Maybe I didn't use enough water...? :hmpf:
Originally posted by thewretched
it again in a few weeks, just be ready to nudge that throttle a bit more :fish: Well, it was a bit scary doing this and I probably won't try it again. :(

[auxmike]

Sounds like I won't be trying it either!:dizzy:
If this is such a great idea,why don't all the dealers offer it as a service.
Makes you wonder.......

[splat]

Because they can sell you gas additives that they don't have to do anything about, except pour it in, and tell you come back on the next tank to "Make sure" the deposit's gone....they lose no time, and you think you're gettin' something great for your car...they walk out with 40 bucks and 3 minutes of work, as opposed to 40 bucks and less half an hour of work...I aimed a funnel in there, and just poured...got my SES light, just disconnected the batt, and i was off, driving again...it's called a a full fuel line flush or something...at the dealer

[auxmike]

Splat,you aimed your funnel and just poured.Poured the water in,or a gas line cleaner?:whoa:

[splat]

water...some of those fuel line flush are flammable, and therefore it is ill-advised...water does exactly what those would do, except remove water from the fuel tank...i aimed the funnel inwards (big one, so i wasn't afraid of it getting sucked in), and just kinda poured it with one hand, other one controlling the throttle...

[auxmike]

Does doing this mean some of the water can get fed back into the fuel line?

[splat]

no...all that water will be induced into your combustion chambers and changed to steam, clean some of the gunk out, and blow by and out the back...you don't have to worry about any of it going into your fuel lines...remember this wont clean your fuel injectors though...so you may want to run a bottle of techron through the vehicle too...

[thewretched]

yeah, what splat said. its pretty time consuming, and it would be a bigger hassle to take your car out back with a jug of water and sit over it pouring water in.

especially since, you know, if they're in a hurry and mess up, no more engine. that wouldn't be too good.

but I see where you're coming from David. it was a bit frightening. I don't know how often ill be doing it, but I wouldn't tell anyone not to do it...

[swzine]

I kind of performed this procedure by accident! ;)

I have a cold air intake in my car and was driving about 3 hours at around 80mph on the highway in very bad rain. My air filter is in a location where it gets hit with a lot of water. When I got to my destination the car stalled on me. It happened the second I got off the highway and into a gas station. When I'd crank it it produced a lot of white smoke and had some trouble starting. I just let it sit for a few minutes, thinking the engine was hot and maybe it would evaporate any water in there. I tried again a few minutes later and the car started up with no problems and never had a problem since.

At first I thought I had hydrolocked the engine. I knew I hadn't sucked up any standing water and the only water that could have made it into the engine were the small drips that the intake was able to vacuum up. I was still worried though.

From reading this post I now think that if I'm driving a long distance on highways in the rain it's smarter to rev the engine a little when I stop and let it turn any water into steam.

I have never met anyone with a CAI that had this condition, so it was probably a freak incident. It also does fine with normal city driving or even an hour/hour and a half of highway driving in the rain. Needless to say, I don't want it to happen again. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to solve it. There isn't any room under the hood of the L to route a Cold Air Intake anyone else. I'm leaning toward just disconnecting the CAI and using a filter on a short pipe under the hood if I'm ever driving long distance in the rain.

[cormor]

Now when you say denatured alcohol, is that like alcohol for wounds? Could you be more specific on this please? Ive noticed some problems and im probably gonna jump on this project tomarrow before work.

[M.Nguyen]

It's Ethyl alcohol. Sometimes found in windshield washer fluid.

http://www.antigravitygear.com/denatured_alcohol.html

[the_skin_eater]

this sounds like a good thing to do after cleanin the throttle body, if u do it on the car at least. get down all that crap u just cleaned.

[BuzzStPoint]

Sounds interesting..

I will tackle this tonight.. Now will this help with sticking piston rings? I have tried the Piston ring soak with MMO, and B-12 BarryMans.

[the_skin_eater]

i did this a lil while ago...didnt really get the efdfect everyone else did...i got a lil steam, sputterin quite a bit, nothin outa the tailpipe. i can see s slight difference in the engine smoothness tho, i will prolly do it again soon. one thing of advise, wear a glove or sumptin cause holdion the TB open and having that release air off the manifold kinda suks..;.

[the_skin_eater]

Originally posted by auxmike
Perhaps you should drain your oil and see if the water ended up in the crankcase.Don't think you should see steam coming out the valve cover!
You are a brave soul,I give you credit for trying this,I hope it's done no harm to the internals though...:rolleyes:


and although this was to sumone else, it still pertains. my oil did seem a lil watery, so take heed ppl

[BuzzStPoint]

I have a replacement tube that connects to the side of the valve cover. (DOHC) and while doing this the tub poped from the plug wire I proped it on and the steam got me right between the index and middle finger nuckle.. Hurts..

I had some good white and blue smoke comming out.. Nice round spot of carbon on the ground too.

[the_skin_eater]

did u keep the engine stutterin the whole time buzz?? or did u let it gurgle, get back normal, and do it again?

[BuzzStPoint]

Stumble the whole time. I didn't let it go down then clear out...

[the_skin_eater]

ahh, maybe thats were i went wrong, i let it stumble, then recover, then stumble and so on....

[BuzzStPoint]

Can you get a 2nd person?

I had my wife help me. she sat in the car and held the gas between 2000-2500 RPMS.

Once you get the water at a good rate and the 2nd person keep the throttle between that. you'll start to see the bugs flying around start to clear out from the smoke and steam.:grnjump: :sneeze:

[the_skin_eater]

that would help....im gonna rig up a plastic funnel to fit over the water bottle so i can squirt it easier

[madpogue]

I'm contemplating doing both the steam clean and the MMO soak. Any thoughts, anyone, on the order in which to do the two? On the one hand, I would think the steam clean would clean out any remnant of the MMO soak. On the other hand, I'm wondering if the steam clean might undo some of the benefit ("repair" to the piston rings) of the MMO soak.

Thoughts?

[jessedh]

Where do you pour the water???

[madpogue]

Originally posted by jessedh
Where do you pour the water??? You have a few options; anywhere so that it goes into the air intake, after the air filter. The main air intake nozzle is one option. Others are any fairly big vacuum hose going into the throttle body.

I just did this procedure today, and used the hose for the PCV valve. Three words, folks: bike water bottle. Don't just take the hose off the PCV valve. Leave the elbow on the PCV valve, and remove the rubber "sleeve" from the elbow. This makes for a perfect "interface" for the valve on the bottle. The engine will also rev up to about 1800 RPM. Be careful, though, that soft rubber outer sleeve can be "sucked" shut by the vacuum; this will probably stall the engine. You can basically hold the bottle in one hand, and rev the engine via the throttle with the other. The vacuum will draw the water right out of the bottle.

[SylenThunder]

Originally posted by David 93 SL2m
I am curious. Could we do this with Berryman B-12 or the popular Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) too? If so, how would the results compare to doing the cleaning with either water or water/alcohol? Better? Same? Worse? Or would this be a bad idea since these two products are probably flammable?

Actually... Berriman B-12 or B-16 are designed to be used in exactly this fasion. So is the Sea-Foam. (essentially the same as Berryman's) I am a little leery about actually dumping water into my intake.. I would think that this would be done on a cold engine rather than a hot one. I use Berryman's about every 12K and I swear by it.

[the_skin_eater]

Originally posted by SylenThunder
Actually... Berriman B-12 or B-16 are designed to be used in exactly this fasion. So is the Sea-Foam. (essentially the same as Berryman's) I am a little leery about actually dumping water into my intake.. I would think that this would be done on a cold engine rather than a hot one. I use Berryman's about every 12K and I swear by it.


from my understanding though, you have to have a hot engine for the water to steam...the steam is what cleans off all the crud. If it was cold the water would just slink out the the engine, however, it seems to me that you run a greater risk of hydrolocking(or wutever) the engine when its cold, because there is a greater amount of water in a smaller area...

[sierrap615]

yes, wait til the engine is warm so the hot intake manifold will turn the water to steam.

[1993SC2]

Originally posted by amazinghl
I poured at least a qt of water in the engine. Tailpipe had NOTHING come out.

Also, is steam suppose to come out at the valve cover hole where it connects to the air intake tube?

The little tube from the cam cover to the intake tubing? That's oil vapors. It's normal.;)

...and I'd use a mist water spray.

[SL1Joe]

I have never heard of this procedure but I must say i'd be a little weary of doing it, It probably is safe if done right though. A slightly safer approach (although I don't know if it's as effective) is to put a little transmission fluid (any kind will do) in the combustion chamber through the spark plug holes. A friend of mine explained this procedure to me though I personally haven't tried it yet. It supposedly cleans the combustion chamber and at the same time lubricates the valves.

[emptypockets]

Well I tried this today. I took off the intake tubing and used a spray bottle to spray water into the throttle body opening. I just opened it enough for water to get sucked in so I know I kept my RPM's at or below 2000. After I got done I looked inside my car and my SES light was on. My car runs just the same as it always does but I pulled the PCM fuses and disconnected the negative cable on the battery for about 10 minutes and the light is still on. I have a 99 SC1 so I can't just read the code with a paper clip. Does getting the water into that little oval-shaped vacuum hole at the bottom of the throttle body opening hurt anything or would it set off my SES light? This is my daily driver so I kinda need to get this fixed pretty quickly.

[emptypockets]

Well I pulled the PCM fuses for about an hour and cleaned the vacuum line that connects to the top of the TB and the light went out.

[92saturnsl2]

Well I tried this today. I took off the intake tubing and used a spray bottle to spray water into the throttle body opening. I just opened it enough for water to get sucked in so I know I kept my RPM's at or below 2000. After I got done I looked inside my car and my SES light was on. My car runs just the same as it always does but I pulled the PCM fuses and disconnected the negative cable on the battery for about 10 minutes and the light is still on. I have a 99 SC1 so I can't just read the code with a paper clip. Does getting the water into that little oval-shaped vacuum hole at the bottom of the throttle body opening hurt anything or would it set off my SES light? This is my daily driver so I kinda need to get this fixed pretty quickly.

Sounds like the problem is relatively minor, and might have been due to O2 sensor reading lean. The oval shaped hole at the base of the throttlebody is the opening for the IAC (idle air control). It's just a port that allows air to flow through when the throttle plate is closed, so getting water in there shouldn't cause any problems.

[JerryHughes]

I bought my 97 SL with close to 100K miles on it and when I looked into the throttle body, it was completely black! I bought some Berryman's B-12, emptied one whole can into the intake (deep) while the car was not turned on, had to keep turning the key to finally get the car to start and when it started, all sorts of black-blue smoke came out the tail pipe. I then followed the directions on the can of Berryman's and with the car now running, emptied another can into the throttle body/injector area----deep inside. The car never ran so good and smooth! I figured that Berryman's will probably burn out and clean when it's doing it.

Jerry

[98greenSC2]

I tried it this morning. I let the engine warm up for a few minutes before doing anything. I took off the top tube on my CAI to access the throttle body. I used a GARDEN HOSE to spray the water. No, I didn't try to hose out the engine with water because hyrdolock sucks. I barely squeezed the handle so a fine and light stream of water went in. I revved the throttle a bit, perhaps to 1500-2000 rpm and sprayed. It started shaking and stumbling but when it did, I revved it a little. I did this for about 5 minutes total. No SES light or carbon marks on the ground but lots of steam and white smoke. I'm not sure if I did it enough. I'm hoping this will help my misfire under heavy load. It could be caused by carbon on a valve not allowing it to close all the way. Also, should I follow this up with Seafoam or is that overkill?

[SimPlyxTriPPiN]

would this cause the "service engine soon" light to turn on?

[emptypockets]

would this cause the "service engine soon" light to turn on?

Yeah. Mine did. I just pulled the PCM fuses and disconnected the negative battery cable for about half an hour(not sure what the exact time you're supposed to disconnect it for to have it reset but I went and ate a sandwich). Then I reconnected the battery and put the fuses back in. I started the car and the light was still on. I let it idle for about 5 minutes, pulled the fuse again, put the fuse back in and it was gone.

[David 93 SL2m]

Probably pulling the underhood fuse labeled "PCM B" for a short period of time that resets the PCM. This is easier and better than removing the negative cable from the battery.

[SimPlyxTriPPiN]

thanks for the reply but sometime today the SES light diappeared. kind of a relief

[98greenSC2]

It never came on for me.

[Vertigoomg]

****! I did the engine clean only to find out my exhaust tip welds RUSTED OFF!!! FFS!!!!!!!

[mjo]

I did this too and I used an empty washed-out two liter pepsi bottle. Right after the car was completely warmed up I nuked a 2 liter that was nearly full with water in the microwave until it was warm. Slowly poured two of these in and the car seems to run smoother. IMO you can't put too much in the intake if you pour into the pcv valve.

[emptypockets]

So you put in a total of 4 liters? I don't know if anyone else's car does this but when I pull the PCV hose off of the throttle body my RPM's shoot up to around 2000 or higher. Anyone else have this happen? I was gonna run the water through there but I didn't want to ruin the engine by having it run at 2-3000 RPM's for 10+ minutes.

[mjo]

So you put in a total of 4 liters? I don't know if anyone else's car does this but when I pull the PCV hose off of the throttle body my RPM's shoot up to around 2000 or higher. Anyone else have this happen? I was gonna run the water through there but I didn't want to ruin the engine by having it run at 2-3000 RPM's for 10+ minutes.

I left mine in the hose that connects to the intake and it didn't change RPM at all. Maybe you need to clean it out with carb cleaner.

[emptypockets]

I left mine in the hose that connects to the intake and it didn't change RPM at all. Maybe you need to clean it out with carb cleaner.

I could try cleaning it out with carb cleaner. I pulled the tube off of the PCV so there was no more restriction on it. That might have been the reason. So you poured the water through the PCV and then it went through the small hose into the TB? That could be where I went wrong.

[mjo]

Yep. And I didn't like the thought of using water that is near 32 degrees F in a hot engine. Large temperature differences cause problems in an engine such as cracked/warped cylinder heads. The next time I do it I will heat the water to near boiling point and use gloves when pouring it into the PCV valve.

[occupant]

So you put in a total of 4 liters? I don't know if anyone else's car does this but when I pull the PCV hose off of the throttle body my RPM's shoot up to around 2000 or higher. Anyone else have this happen? I was gonna run the water through there but I didn't want to ruin the engine by having it run at 2-3000 RPM's for 10+ minutes.

So do you pull over every 5 minutes when driving 65mph on the freeway?

Idling your engine at 2000-3000 rpm is only really bad if it's overheating.

[emptypockets]

So do you pull over every 5 minutes when driving 65mph on the freeway?

Idling your engine at 2000-3000 rpm is only really bad if it's overheating.

I meant while pouring water in.

[sierrap615]

the injection of water vapor can actully lower the temps inside the combustion chamber.

[mjo]

the injection of water vapor can actully lower the temps inside the combustion chamber.
Yes, that's why many that that are turboed and have water injection don't need to use high octane gasoline - because it drives off pinging and detonation

[mysatilac]

It was posted but I didn't see a reply, what order you should do this in if you are also doing the MMO soak... will one reverse the effects of the other, or is it just your preference?

Also, thinking about this, when you're pouring water into the TB isn't it only going to run down the #1 intake runner, in my mind I just don't see it jumping the 3 gaps to get over to #4...

So you'll have like a half clean engine? I bet a lot of that carbon is coming off of the intake runners/exhaust, not the inside of the cylinders...

Still, I'm considering doing this, but I just did the MMO soak and thought I'd see what you guys had to say first.

[mjo]

It was posted but I didn't see a reply, what order you should do this in if you are also doing the MMO soak... will one reverse the effects of the other, or is it just your preference?

Also, thinking about this, when you're pouring water into the TB isn't it only going to run down the #1 intake runner, in my mind I just don't see it jumping the 3 gaps to get over to #4...

So you'll have like a half clean engine? I bet a lot of that carbon is coming off of the intake runners/exhaust, not the inside of the cylinders...

Still, I'm considering doing this, but I just did the MMO soak and thought I'd see what you guys had to say first.

I don't ever use MMO because this oil is a bit of a mystery. As far as pouring water in the TB I'd get it as close to boiling point as possible.

[98greenSC2]

I want to do this to my '94 Mitsububishi Eclipse. However, it has a MAF sensor in the intake piping, not a MAP senson in the intake manifold. WIll that cause any complications such as stalling or an SES light?

[sierrap615]

to be on the safe side, find a small vacuum line after the MAF(if i'm not misstaken your MAF in fact doesn't use a hot wire, it uses sound waves, and costs about $400)

i also say small vacuum line because countless people at my school have hydrostaticly locked their engines doing a simular procedure and using PCV hoses and brake booster hoses.

[BarnOwl]

This sounds like a procedure a friend of mine swore by back in the bad old days of carburetors. What he would do is take one of his windshield washer hoses and run it to the carburetor air intake. Then he'd drive down the freeway and turn on the windshield washer. I suppose the same thing could be done with the PCV vacumn line. I'm not sure I'm willing to try it though.

[riggs]

tried this procedure today. i have a sohc car stalled on me once but it started back up again. it was throwing out white and grayish smoke. when i saw the floor there was carbon.. some water spilled around. i believe a little bit of water might have been sucked in into the breather inlet of the valve cover because i saw some type of white-brown-ish liquid. any suggestions? by the way my car needs an oil change so would doing a tune up fix the problem?

[98greenSC2]

tried this procedure today. i have a sohc car stalled on me once but it started back up again. it was throwing out white and grayish smoke. when i saw the floor there was carbon.. some water spilled around. i believe a little bit of water might have been sucked in into the breather inlet of the valve cover because i saw some type of white-brown-ish liquid. any suggestions? by the way my car needs an oil change so would doing a tune up fix the problem?

The breather tube was giving off steam when I did it on my Saturn and my Eclipse. The was water condensation on the oil cap of the Eclipse. It went away after a day of driving. BTW, it was pretty hairy doing this on the Eclipse. It has a MAF sensor, not a MAP sensor. When I unhooked the intake tube from the throttle body, the MAF give no signal and the ECU was like WTF!!! Probably won't do it again that way.

It might not be a bad idea to change the oil. You might want to check out the MMO piston soak before you change it.

Also, I've heard you can use ATF fluid to clean the combustion chamber. Has anyone else tried that?

[riggs]

im no mechanic but ill give it a try. how do you check the MMO piston soak?

[96GSL1]

I use a squeeze bottle (like ones you might see in restaurant kitchens), some distilled water, and the PCV hose. Worked great!

[dzmegs]

Intresting to see a post about water injection. Seen it done with Dr Pepper and with just a few pours into a TBI the pinging disappeared.

[SylenThunder]

Intresting to see a post about water injection. Seen it done with Dr Pepper and with just a few pours into a TBI the pinging disappeared.


Dr Pepper?????? :dizzy:

Sorry but I can't see a soft dring helping the engine. I can see the sugar in it hurting your engine though.

[peppermrj]

Has anyone heard of using this procedure with transmission fluid?

[SylenThunder]

no, but I can't imagine why you would want to pour oil into your intake.

[BarnOwl]

Has anyone heard of using this procedure with transmission fluid?
In the bad old days of carberators, people would do it to clean their valves. I haven't heard of anyone doing it in years.

[sierrap615]

Has anyone heard of using this procedure with transmission fluid?
i have heard of people using a mixture of ATF and water(mostly water), but in which case, the ATF is used more for a lubracent then a cleaner. i think i will stick with water, and in real bad cases, GM Top engine cleaner

[tgparker]

This sounds like a really simple good idea. It's low tech and back-yard mechanic which I like.

I'm a total newbie so I need like really idiot simple dummy instructions.

Intake tube on the throttle. Which intake tube and where is it located, and how do I indentify it. What parts do I take off first to access the trottle body and this tube?

Are there any good pics of this procedure anywhere that I can look at please?

Also what lever do I pull, push, to keep the engine idling at 2000 rpm while I'm puring water down the intake tube?

Thanking you in advance,

Tony

[tgparker]

Great idea! I'm a newbie and I have no idea what "the vacuum line from your brake booster", where it is located or what parts I might have to remove to get to it. Do you have any idiot simple instructions with even some pic to illustrate where I can even find this part. I tried locating what your talking about in both Chilton and Haynes and they were next to useless. Is there any on-line source where I might some kind of diagrams that might help?

Thanking you in advance,

Tony

Harry,
A product called "SeaFoam" has the same effect, only greater cleaning power, and it's safer than water. I'd try it, it helped my friend pass smog. :)
It's easy to use, you just pull the vacuum line from your brake booster and stick it in the can and then start the car. It'll either suck the bottle dry and keep running, or the car will stall. If it sucks the can dry and keeps running, turn it off and let it sit for about 45 minutes. (If the car stalls, start it up again, until it sucks out all the seafoam.) After the 45 minutes, start the car. (you may have to keep the car running with a little throttle.)
Warning: The car is gonna smoke like CRAZY!! This is the crud burning off, this is good. I just did to my cousin's car and I plan to do it to my SC2. You MIIIIGHT have to buy new spark plugs after using SeaFoam, because SOMETIMES it fouls them...But it's really good to use. :yes:

[sierrap615]

the "tube" is the air induction tube, the big 2.5-3" wide black from the air filter box to the throttle body. remove the tube to access to throttle body(screw driver req.)

you manually control the throttle by rotating the semi-circle plate on the throttle body connecting the throttle cable.

DO NOT USE THE BRAKE BOOSTER HOSE!!!! its to large and will flow to much, ether manually pour the water/cleaner in via the throttle body or use the small vacuum line for the fuel pressure regular(91-97 saturns only)

[SylenThunder]

unless, of course, you have a newer saturn with the electronically controlled throttle body.... then it take two ppl. :upset:

[tgparker]

small vacuum line for the fuel pressure regular(91-97 saturns only)

Thank you so much for the info BTW where is the "small vacum line fuel pressure regular" what does it look like and how can I identify it please?

Thanks in advance...

Remember I'm a total newbie...

Tony

[David 93 SL2m]

It sounds like a picture with annotations and arrows would be perfect here!

[sierrap615]

i would but the photo section is down right now

[mjo]

Cleaning the combustion chamber with water is very important for a Saturn that burns oil. This is because the excessive carbon deposits sticking to the cylinder walls increase compression which increases the required octane. These same carbon deposits, by increasing the required octane, increase the likelyhood of engine knock and detonation.

Here's a quote from the Gasoline FAQ (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/):

"7.8 What is the effect of engine deposits?

A new engine may only require a fuel of 6-9 octane numbers lower than the
same engine after 25,000 km. This Octane Requirement Increase (ORI) is due to
the formation of a mixture of organic and inorganic deposits resulting from
both the fuel and the lubricant. They reach an equilibrium amount because
of flaking, however dramatic changes in driving styles can also result in
dramatic changes of the equilibrium position. When the engine starts to burn more oil, the octane requirement can increase again. ORIs up to 12 are not uncommon, depending on driving style [27,28,32,111]. The deposits produce
the ORI by several mechanisms:
- they reduce the combustion chamber volume, effectively increasing the
compression ratio.
- they also reduce thermal conductivity, thus increasing the combustion
chamber temperatures.
- they catalyse undesirable pre-flame reactions that produce end gases with low autoignition temperatures. "

[tgparker]

Well I tried the "Water Cure" this week-end for my 1992 SL1 SOHC Manual Trans Sedan, I also did a MMO soak as well as the Sea Foam spritz treatment... I saw tons of smoke come out of the exhaust, and horrible greasy black gook dibble out of the exhaust down and onto the asphalt...

The car does now run smoother, quieter, but for some reason the mileage isn't as good as it used to be... I used to get 38 mpg, today I averaged 33 mpg on a 175 mile trip......

I think I failed to follow up a very important and an integral part of the process... You have to change the oil right away afterwards... I simply ran out of daylight and weekend, and it's also been raining ever since... Damn rain, I'd do it now in the dark if it wasn't raining....Grrrrrrrr.

I've now been working and driving my SL1 to work and she runs nice and quiet, and I've also noticed more power, etc...but I KNOW I have to change that oil or all that horrible sludge is going to end up right back on the cylinder walls and piston rings. I think you also have to clean the EGR, IAC, and TBI right afterwards...

Now that I know how to do it, I can do it again next weekend now that I'll be better organized and better set up.

I would also include as part of the procedure using a large Hypodermic .... or tukey baster to slowly dribble the water or Sea Foam or MMO down the PCV tube...

[mjo]

You're right Tgparker, it's probably best to do this right before an oil change.

In case you haven't heard, a PCV Catch Can (http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38025&page=1&pp=20) can help reduce carbon deposit formation in the combustion chamber.
The water decarbonization and emptying your catch can once in a while (every gas fillup) as well as regular maintenance will keep your car running smoothly.

[98greenSC2]

OK, I want to do this to my Eclipse. I can't spray the water through the throttle body like I did on the Saturn because the Eclipse has a MAF sensor. Should I disconnect the PCV hose and spray into that?

[mjo]

Hi 98greenSC2, here are my suggestions. You _could_ disconnect the PCV hose and slowly squirt water into the intake. However, as you probably know, there is vacuum in the intake. From my experience, the more deposits in the intake, the higher the vacuum. Because of the vacuum and the size of the hose, it's easy to pour too much into the intake. Thus, a better way would be to leave the PCV valve connected to the hose and just pull the PCV valve out of the valve cover. Now with the PCV valve still connected to the hose, you can tilt the valve up and then pour water into the end of the valve. There is flow restriction in the valve itself so you won't have to worry about pouring too much water into the PCV valve.

As aforementioned, you'll want hot distilled water for this process. Hot because you want all of the water to instantly turn into steam (melts in your mouth but not in your hands). Distilled because if there are minerals in the water they will form deposits in the engine. Have fun. :usa: