speaker size and ?s

[steelers101]

getting a ion sedan this week and i looked up on crutchfield to see what size speakers the 4-speaker option has but it didnt have it.

i searched online but nobody lists the size. has anyone replaced their speakers and could tell me the size of the door and back speakers?

also, i use my radio heavly due to travel and would like ppl's comments on the 4-speaker cd option. mostly interested in how well the speakers perform at different volumes and with different types of music. last truck i had, the speakers would pop and such at high volumes so just interested in how well the factory speakers perform in the ion.

one last thing, anyone whos put a sub and amp in their ion, sedan, how easy was it to run the line from the amp to the cd player? i was surprised to see the battery in the truck which makes that part very easy and cheaper.

thanks for reading and your comments.

[golftango]

Originally posted by steelers101
getting a ion sedan this week and i looked up on crutchfield to see what size speakers the 4-speaker option has but it didnt have it.

i searched online but nobody lists the size. has anyone replaced their speakers and could tell me the size of the door and back speakers?

also, i use my radio heavly due to travel and would like ppl's comments on the 4-speaker cd option. mostly interested in how well the speakers perform at different volumes and with different types of music. last truck i had, the speakers would pop and such at high volumes so just interested in how well the factory speakers perform in the ion.

one last thing, anyone whos put a sub and amp in their ion, sedan, how easy was it to run the line from the amp to the cd player? i was surprised to see the battery in the truck which makes that part very easy and cheaper.

thanks for reading and your comments.

Start here:
CarDomain (http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/search_results.pl?make=Saturn&model=ION)

and the front and rears are 6.5"

[steelers101]

thanks for telling me the size. thats what i thought it was but i was hoping the back were 6x9.

nice to see all those different ions. couldnt find one with info about installing a amp but i'll keep looking.

[Mekugi_Ana]

Originally posted by steelers101
nice to see all those different ions. couldnt find one with info about installing a amp but i'll keep looking.

All you have to do is ask.:rolleyes: I presume you saw my install. What did you want to know about amp install?:?:

[Wrxified]

I replaced the front and rear speakers in my QC with Infinity Refererence Series 6.5"s and it was a 100% dead match. The holes lined up dead on. I've typically noticed in the past that with a lot of cars it may say 6.5" and you go to put in the speaker but still need adjustments to be made and for this it was not the case. Really easy to install.

[Mekugi_Ana]

Question:

Are they coaxials? or just the reference woofer?

[Wrxified]

Originally posted by Mekugi_Ana
Question:

Are they coaxials? or just the reference woofer?

They are coaxials. I bought mine from Circuit City onsale for $80 a pair.

[Mekugi_Ana]

Was there enough space in back with the deck plate over the speaker? I mean, does the deck rest on the tweeter? Does it make a buldge?

[Wrxified]

Originally posted by Mekugi_Ana
Was there enough space in back with the deck plate over the speaker? I mean, does the deck rest on the tweeter? Does it make a buldge?

There was enough room. The tweeter doesn't come out any further than the base of the woofer.

[steelers101]

Originally posted by Mekugi_Ana
All you have to do is ask.:rolleyes: I presume you saw my install. What did you want to know about amp install?:?:


well, not really sure as they dont list ppl's nick by their cars unless its in the description so if ya can give a link to yours it be helpful.

i know that running the line from the battery to the amp is very simple since the battery is right there but how hard is it to run the line from the reciever to the trunk?

[Mekugi_Ana]

This is mine:

Silver Blaze (http://www.sounddomain.com/id/mekugi_ana)

[Wrxified]

Originally posted by Mekugi_Ana
This is mine:

Silver Blaze (http://www.sounddomain.com/id/mekugi_ana)

Nice stuff but I about fell out of my chair when I saw that you mounted the crossover on the door. :no:

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/377000-377999/377662_10.jpg

You're killing me. Sorry but it kinda reminds me of the WT you see driving around with 6x9"s resting on the back lid under the window. Also why didn't you go with the stock tweeter mounts up higher?

[Mekugi_Ana]

Actually there were two reasons for putting the crossovers outside. One is that there isn't allot of space to put them inside. Second, I like them there. They look really clean. If I upgrade the speakers I'll probably replace the crossover with a mid-high woofer and find a place to mount the crossover inside.

As for the tweeter, I subscribe to the six inch rule. Basically it says that the your tweeters should never be more that six inches from their corresponding woofer because it will cause a disjoint in the soundstage with the highs seperated from the rest of the music.

P.S.: Didn't you have some questions about amp install?

[Wrxified]

Originally posted by Mekugi_Ana
Actually there were two reasons for putting the crossovers outside. One is that there isn't allot of space to put them inside. Second, I like them there. They look really clean. If I upgrade the speakers I'll probably replace the crossover with a mid-high woofer and find a place to mount the crossover inside.

As for the tweeter, I subscribe to the six inch rule. Basically it says that the your tweeters should never be more that six inches from their corresponding woofer because it will cause a disjoint in the soundstage with the highs seperated from the rest of the music.

P.S.: Didn't you have some questions about amp install?

I can see your reasoning on the tweeter scenario. It's ideal to have them close to the woofer. I just would have mounted the crossover under the dash and directed the wiring through the harness boot. I've only seen a few crossovers ever I thought that worth putting on display but those were worth more than most people spend on small systems all together and they were mounted in a worthy display.

[Mekugi_Ana]

I know what you mean (although that could be a pain if you need to take the door panel completely off for some reason. I wish I had thought of doing that (putting it under the dash), but I'm still pretty new to this stuff. The only reason I know anything is that I've thoroughly read The Car Stereo Cookbook front to end. I'll definitely consider that if I upgrade.

You still have any questions about amps?

[Wrxified]

Originally posted by Mekugi_Ana

You still have any questions about amps?

Must have been someone else with the amp questions.

[Mekugi_Ana]

You're right, sorry about that.:p

[steelers101]

it was me, i wanted to know how hard it was to run the line from the dash to the amp and to u think the stock cd player could be used with an amp?

[Wrxified]

Originally posted by steelers101
it was me, i wanted to know how hard it was to run the line from the dash to the amp and to u think the stock cd player could be used with an amp?

Hey this is all you need to do bro. If you are just adding a sub amp and sub you just need a line level converter. You crimp into the stock speaker wires in the back and run it to the line level converter. It converts speaker wire to pre amp outputs. Then you just run the rca plugs to the amp right in the back. That's what I did. It was cake. No need to run rca's to the front. Unless you are running a competition system this will suffice and I don't think most people could tell the difference.

[steelers101]

really? it can be that easy? what amp and sub did u pick?

[Wrxified]

Originally posted by steelers101
really? it can be that easy? what amp and sub did u pick?

It's that easy I swear. I bought the Sony Mono Block amplifier. It's strictly a sub amp that sends low level mono signals to the subs. It's two channel. At 4 ohms I think it is rated 200 w rms per channel. I have two 12" infinity subs. I think those are reference as well. They hit very hard. The subs, amp, and line level converter took me 45 minutes to install.

The hardest part you are going to encounter is the rear speakers themselves. They are a ***** to get to. You can only get to them from the top which mean you have to take out the rear door molding, plastic trim along the side of the passengers heads and then the carpeted deck board. This was a PITA. Probably took almost 1 1/2 hours for just the rear speakers.

[steelers101]

i looked at my back speakers today and i have a clear shot at the bottom of the speakers with the wire. i can take a picture if u want.

i was told by a guy at work that u shouldnt mix brands as each brand has its own idea of max wattage, what is your view on this?

also, where and how did u mount your amp and how did u secure your sub?

[Mekugi_Ana]

You're right you can reach the back speaker wire from underneath. Wrxified was probably thinking about what he had to do to install his speakers.

As for mixing equipment, I'd say what you heard has truth to it, but you should focus more on RMS wattage. I'd like to hear Wrxified's take on that is, though. Besides that, you might not turn the amp all the way up anyway once you start tuning the sub to the speakers. You won't want the sub to overwhelm the rest of the music. You want it to accent and broaden the sound stage.

Also of note is that if you find an amp with line level inputs you can forgo the need for a line level converter, because it'll be built into the amp. Wrxified can probably give you better advice on what route is best.

[Mekugi_Ana]

Also, I'd stay away from sony subs. I've heard nothing but bad news from them. I currently have one 10" Alpine type S, but I'm also looking at getting a 12" Type R.

you can see what I've done here:

Silver Blaze (http://www.sounddomain.com/id/mekugi_ana)

[steelers101]

line level inputs which means i just run the crimped wire into the amp instead of a converter?

well i dont wanna spend more then $100 on a amp but i will go higher if there is a really good reason to. i do want a 2 chan with a 600w max cause i want to get 1 10" 300w sub now and one later. can u recommend any between $100-200 and provide a link?

[steelers101]

well i'm getting pretty scared of amp prices but i seen this at best buy:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1051384093194&skuId=4465787&type=product&productCategoryId=cat03085

might just end up with 1chan and get a sub that goes to its max or nearest.

hows that amp look?

[Mekugi_Ana]

Originally posted by steelers101
line level inputs which means i just run the crimped wire into the amp instead of a converter?

well i dont wanna spend more then $100 on a amp but i will go higher if there is a really good reason to. i do want a 2 chan with a 600w max cause i want to get 1 10" 300w sub now and one later. can u recommend any between $100-200 and provide a link?

Line level inputs: Exactly.

I wouldn't skimp on the amp. It's a piece of equipment you don't want to replace later on. The quality of the amp sets the quatily of the sub. I you have a quality amp you can always upgrade the subs to the amp's limits. Besides, I don't think you could find one with those stats for that price.

Now, do you want an amp with 600W RMS (2x300) or just 600W peak?

If you want a 300W RMS Sub, my Type S has stats around there and I got it for like $80 at Online Car Stereo (http://www.onlinecarstereo.com). It's not Alpine's best but I'm sure you could find something else there to your taste. They have alot of other nice stuff with good prices. The info on the stuff can be a bit thin, but you can always look up the info at the manufaturers web page.

For the amp, you don't have to go with a 2 channel, you could go with a one channel and set the two amp up in sieres or parrallel. You would just leave the gain down until you had the other sub. There are other issues with this setup, but they're kind of complicated to describe and I'm getting tired. :sleep: If you want I'll describe them to you later.:zzz:

[Mekugi_Ana]

It's not bad, but you're a little resticted in the power of the sub. But before I say anthing else I'll let Wrxified give us his thoughts.:sleep:

[steelers101]

well my orginal idea was to have 2 300watt rms 10" subs so i needed a 2 chan amp that could supply that much power.

if the price difference is that much, i could go with 2 200watt rms 10" with an amp good enough for that.

[Wrxified]

Everything that Mekugi_Ana has said is true. RMS is the only thing you should ever pay attention to. Root Mean Square is an average of the power transfer between a generator and normative load that is obtained by measuring the AC power with the formula P=EI cosine Ø where cos. Ø is the power factor.

Basically in basic terms it's what you would expect under nominal conditions that the amp can reasonably keep up an average pace of performing at.

To work efficiently the speakers need to have an RMS rating close to the Amplifiers RMS rating but...............first you need to trust the manufacturer. Notice above I said "nominal conditions". Nominal for some manufacturers is a completely different term for another. Max power is the most useless term in stereo terminology today.

It's very difficult to find a decent amp under $100. It's not easy. The mono Sony amp I bought was a stretch for me. I haven't ever spent as little on a system as I have this time. My wife would just simply kill me now if I spent $4000 on a system these days. The amp I bought only cost $180 but it serves it's purpose. It's a mono amp with low level signals. It's pretty easy for it to meet my needs.

My sub and box sit's pretty securely in the trunk without fastening it to anything. The amp is secured to the driver side rear seatback. It's hard plastic and screws lock it down well.

I also agree with Mekugi_Ana advice on the Sony subs. They suck. Even the sony amp sony sub combo Circuit City said that the Odd Ohm rating (3 Ohms) was forcing the amp to shut off under high loads.
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/products/2003/700/l700XMD400-f_dg-2.jpeg

[steelers101]

first i wanna thank u guys for helping me get started. i went to best buy to check out their stuff and hopefully learn something.

the guy i talked to for 45mins was very helpful and pretty much said what u just said about rms power and peak.

i've decided to get 2 10" rockford fasgate punch z sub with a 150 rms rating for each. then a rockford fasgate punch 301m amp with a total of 300 rms and thats a mono sub. cheaper to get a dual box now then 2 seperate boxes later. also gonna go with the 4 gauge power. the in-line converter. they have a thing for $6 that can go between teh radio plug and speaker and give u 2 bare wires and the plug for hte speaker.

of all the questions i asked the guy, i forgot to ask him this basic one: how does the sub mount to the box? does the sub screw into the box around the edges?

if the trunk rattles then i'll get the insulator stuff. all in all, i'm pretty happy and i got the subs for $100 total, buying the rest tomorrow.

what are your thoughts?

[Mekugi_Ana]

I don't know what your box assembly comes with, but you basically screw your sub onto the box. You'll also want some sealant to go between the sub and the box. I'm not sure on what kind you want, because my box came with sealent already on it (bought a store display box.)

As for the amp you want, Wrxified and I are probably going to be thinking the same things: What is the impedance (ohm rating) of your subs? What impedances is the (one channel) mono amp stable at?

You could be in for a real disapointment if it turns out to be like most amps and subs.

I'll try to check their stats out online and post again with my findings and thoughts.:hmpf:

[steelers101]

with 1 sub, its 4ohm and with 2 subs, its 2 ohm.

[Mekugi_Ana]

Ok, are these your subs and amp selection?

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/ez2/fcsscripts/Images/Rockford/2003/Raw%20Driver/RFZ3410-SIDE_F.jpg
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/ez2/fcsscripts/Images/Rockford/2003/Amplifiers/PUNCH301_F.jpg

The subs are 4 ohm impedance, ok.
The amp is 150Wx1 @ 4ohms
and 300Wx1 @ 2ohms

Good, it's 2ohm stable. There's only one way you can set this up. You have to wire the subs in parrallel. To do that, you wire all of the positive terminals (amp output, sub#1, sub#2) together and do the same for the negative terminals.

[steelers101]

yup, that looks like them and yup thats who i wired it up.

well the story is that i tried installing it myself and did all good except nobody told me about that remote wire which pretty much has to go to the dash and i'm not about to go ripping stuff apart that i have no idea how it comes out so i dropped the car off at best buy and they are working on it now. besides, they'll make it look good and well i'd do a horrible job.. hahaha

so anyway. i wouldnt of gotten this far without your help, his help, and some others so thank you. i've always wanted a sub in my car and now i will finally have one. and i can say proudly that its all rockford fasgate crap.

i will be posting pics of new toys when i get it tonight, hope you'll check them out.

[Mekugi_Ana]

sure, just tell us when their up.

[steelers101]

got 4 pics up. they came out pretty good even at night. hope ya enjoy them.

only thing that i found that i didnt like is the already skip-prone stock cd player and when u got something boomin' in the truck, it dont help. looks like i'll be getting a new cd player for xmas. haha.

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by steelers101
...but i was hoping the back were 6x9

You never looked at the ceiling of the trunk, have you? They're hanging out in plain sight. The trunk is actually the speaker box.

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by Mekugi_Ana
As for the tweeter, I subscribe to the six inch rule. Basically it says that the your tweeters should never be more that six inches from their corresponding woofer because it will cause a disjoint in the soundstage with the highs seperated from the rest of the music.

I'll definitely believe the one with Special Relativity in their profile. :yes:

[steelers101]

Originally posted by kevinthenerd
You never looked at the ceiling of the trunk, have you? They're hanging out in plain sight. The trunk is actually the speaker box.

yeah i looked at them in the trunk but i can still wish for them to be 6x9's. i mean theres plenty of room and damn it, the back should be bigger then the front!

and i love my subs!