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wolfman
08-17-2003, 11:54 PM
NOTE: This WILL NOT fix a fan that is actually BROKEN or otherwise completely non-functional. It WILL give you the option of turn on the raditor fan when YOU want to without affecting normal fan operation.

SUPPLIES
1 Automotive type switch your choice of style
About 4 feet or so of 20 guage wire (speaker wire will do)
1 Automotive test light

Remove the cover on the underhood fuse box and locate the relay labeled "FAN"

Pull up on this relay enough to access the metal contacts sticking down from the bottom of it but DO NOT remove it.

Connect the clip of your test light to GROUND

Probe each of the still connected relay contacts with the test light probe. Eventually you will find one that makes the relay CLICK and the fan come on when touched. Make note of which one it is.

Run a wire from where you want your switch to be to the relay you just tested. Remove the relay and insert the wire into the socket below the relay pin that "clicked" when you tested it. Now reinstalll the relay so that it wedges the wire inplace firmly in that socket with the relay installed. Test your connection by GROUNDING the other end of the wire. If all is well, the fan will come on.

Install your switch where you would like it. Attach the wire to the relay to one side of the switch and a wire to GROUND to the other side of the switch. With the switch "ON" the fan should now run.

IMPORTANT NOTES: This modification will NOT AFFECT "normal" fan operation. (It will still work "automatically" as before but you will also have manual control) This modification supplies GROUND to the OEM fan relay trip used by the PCM and does NOT require any additional fusing. This will activate the radiator cooling fan with the key on or off! On SOME Saturns, this will set an SES light if used with the engine running. FEAR NOT! This is harmless to the PCM and the SES light will go back OFF within a few secs/minutes of turning your manual fan switch back off. (It is just the PCM "seeing" the fan on when it does not "think" it should be)

mclarenf1gtrv12
11-22-2003, 10:03 PM
maybe im just being stupid but what will making the fan manual do does it improve abilty of engine to cool or what .What type of advatage does doing this really have.

Twin_Cam
11-22-2003, 10:54 PM
This allows you to turn the radiator fan on at will. The fan will turn on automatically when the temperature guage gets to the 3/4 mark, but that is way too hot. With the fan switch, you can turn the fan on as soon as it starts going over the 1/2 mark, which is optimal engine temperature. Anything above 1/2 is starting to put unnecessary wear on the engine and transmission.

eljefino
11-23-2003, 11:05 AM
I think this (http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&langId=-1&productId=179266&mediaCode=ZX&appId=384932) would work.

Normally, As the car warms up, the coolant in the block reaches 192'F (thermostat temp) then starts warming up the radiator (outside air, temp, say, 60'F). The rad would reach the engine temp eventually in slow/stopped traffic, i.e. both 192'F then both rad and block would continue rising to 212'F (or wherever the ecm kicks the fan on). [If highway speeds are used exclusively, the radiator temp is probably under 100'F by the above example.]

This product is a 170'F thermoprobe you stick (JB-Weld?) to the radiator tank. Wired to a relay, it would run the electric fan more of the time, whenever the rad is over 170'F. IOW, it would keep the radiator temp in a cooler range and the engine at exactly thermostat temperature, barring extreme circumstances. This is not like a cooler thermostat; the block temp is still factory spec 192'F for economy/performance/durability/emissions.

This would be a great mod for someone who drives highway mostly and rarely needs or wants the fan, but thinks it's silly to let the temp climb all that way sitting in traffic. It complements the manual rad switch or replaces it. One would (probably, am lacking included device instructions) wire this as another parallel switch to ground as Wolfman described. This is good for a car one lends out occasionally so the manual switch doesn't need explaining.

Recap: You'd have fan if
A: ECM sees it very hot (212 or 230'F?)
B: Air conditioning is running
C: Radiator is 170'F
D: Optional manual rad fan switch is engaged.

Hope this is clearer than mud.

Rob1998SL2
11-24-2003, 12:52 AM
How does one mount a switch in the cockpit? Where do the wires feed through to the engine bay? And where is a good location to mount the switch?

Thanks,
-Rob

eljefino
11-24-2003, 05:31 AM
A great spot for the switch is one of the pop-outs next to the rear window defogger button or under the radio if no a/c came with the car. Pop out the pop-out and drill an appropriate hole in the plastic. Pull wire through hole, attach to switch (solder/spade lug), pop back in.

Near the brake booster under the hood is a grommet that can expand slightly to bring wire into the cabin.

Rob1998SL2
11-24-2003, 09:21 AM
That helps a lot. Thanks!

-Rob

jthj
12-14-2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by Twin_Cam
This allows you to turn the radiator fan on at will. The fan will turn on automatically when the temperature guage gets to the 3/4 mark, but that is way too hot. With the fan switch, you can turn the fan on as soon as it starts going over the 1/2 mark, which is optimal engine temperature. Anything above 1/2 is starting to put unnecessary wear on the engine and transmission.

I wonder why Saturn engineers deisgned it to wait so long. Save electricity?????

92SL1Mann
01-08-2004, 09:38 PM
eljefino....why would you need fan when the a/c is on? I dont know that much about that.....thanks

eljefino
01-09-2004, 11:25 AM
The fan runs automatically with the a/c to blow air over the condensor (part of the a/c system) and cool that; cooling the engine radiator is almost a side-effect. It's a pleasant side effect since it's usually quite warm out when the a/c is running and the engine will like that too.

I was suggesting the blank pop-out space the optional a/c button would fit in for a good place for the switch.

92SL1Mann
01-09-2004, 05:26 PM
Thanks eljefino

Luke
01-11-2004, 02:12 PM
Guys, this is just for the explanations for a particular procedure....not a discussion area. Your points should be made over at the regular forum.

Mog
04-03-2004, 01:50 PM
Is an automotive test light something as simple as I am thinking? I've never herd of that before.

zippy_LiL_sL1
07-30-2004, 08:52 PM
although a test light is probably a good idea, I don't have one. I just used a piece of wire to jump 2 slots at a time until I heard a click. I blew a fuse doing it. Replaced the fuse and tried other slots. Yeah got it to work... but no one around here sells decent switches with the correct rating. Anyone know of a good spot to get cool switches?

sierrap615
07-31-2004, 07:14 PM
the switch is placed on the low current side of the relay, not the high. so the switch doesn't need to be rated at 30 amps, less then 100mA will go thru the switch.

i know wolfman says the fan should not be on at speeds over 40. without the override switch, does the PCM turn off the fan automaticilly at high speeds?

Luke
08-01-2004, 09:20 AM
Fm Sierrap
does the PCM turn off the fan automaticilly at high speeds?
Yes it does; And I believe that the shut off speed is it at 70 mph. Atleast that is what I recall reading from the Factory Service Manual (FSM) for my '95 SL 2.

geartooth94
08-09-2004, 10:13 AM
anyone know if I'd be able to use a lighted 12VDC switch? Would this require the gauge of the switch wire to be thicker?

bbarbulo
08-09-2004, 11:19 AM
withphone, I don't think so... the operative here is the ground! for the relay, not +ve, so I'll go ahead an assume there is no power running here thereby making the lighted switch useless.

Luke
08-09-2004, 02:38 PM
Fm Bruno
so I'll go ahead an assume there is no power running here thereby making the lighted switch useless....

Am I out of the loop on this issue? I found that a lighted switch was perfect for me to remind me that the manual switch had been activated.

bbarbulo
08-09-2004, 03:25 PM
The way my switch is set up, it just provides a ground to the relay, so there is nothing to power the lighted switch. I dunno, maybe you guys set yours up diff't. Mine was done originally on my first Saturn by an elec engineer, and I just swapped everything over onto my second saturn as I found it.

geartooth94
08-10-2004, 09:11 AM
Luke is yours wired exactly the way Wolfman describes? If so, it is ground jumpering a +12V source to ground, so it should light, no?

Hoyter
08-11-2004, 11:57 PM
i wired mine up but have yet to wire up for the light on the switch.... i amthinking that you could just run a +12 to the LIGHT GROUND side of the switch and leave the +ACC and + GROUND for the switch operation.... Or would the +LIGHT GROUND also send a +12 signal through the rest of the switch?


Otherwise mine works great

Luke
08-12-2004, 08:31 AM
Withphone
If I remember correctly, my source of power comes from my tapping the relay, via a two prong switch (with a light). One wire going from the relay, to the switch, and one going from the switch, to my ground source. Therefore, if my bulb goes out, so does the flow of electricity (almost acting similar to a fuse). Keep in mind, this is a truly micro-current-flow switch, for it's sole purpose is to activate the relay--not handle the actual current flow to the fan.

BTW, of course, needless to emphasize, I followed Wolf's instructions to the letter no ifs, ands, or buts.

the_skin_eater
08-16-2004, 04:49 PM
any body just wanna say witch prong is the one u need to use???

Fricken eh!
08-17-2004, 06:17 AM
not to steal anyones thunder (or idea) but when i see the needle creeping up towards 3/4 i put the AC on for about 2s then switch it off. this puts the rad fan on for about 3-4 mins and cools the car. saves on all this extra wiring. just my $0.02

Luke
08-17-2004, 09:33 AM
^^^^^^^ Granted, but when you're driving in stop & go freeway traffic that procedure is not as affective as a permanent alternative.

As to the "extra wiring": I found it not even a consideration, over the considerable beneficial results of its simple installation...

Just a thought...

------------------------

** One VERY HAPPY person, with my manual radiator fan switch, Thanks to Wolf's guidance ** 95 SL2, 386,986 Miles..... 40.35 MPG (10 Tank Full Avg) as of Aug 16, '04. Quaker State 10w-40 Oil, using 1 qt / 1,000 miles

geartooth94
08-17-2004, 03:09 PM
yeah it gets really annoying flipping on and off that A/C switch. Plus I gotta turn the dashboard fan on to get the engine fan to run as well.

the_skin_eater
08-17-2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by the_skin_eater
any body just wanna say witch prong is the one u need to use???

ANY ONE?????????????

M.Nguyen
08-17-2004, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by the_skin_eater
ANY ONE????????????? Hahahahhaahaha....here's a pic, because i'm sure you're gonna ask which one's the 86.

http://saturnspeed.com/yabbse/index.php?board=24;action=display;threadid=19184

I've posted one for the first gen, and one for the second gen fuse box (note, they are different.) Not sure, but i'd imagine third gen is pretty similar to the second gen.

Scroll down a few pics, and you can see.

But i think if you haven't yet, you should invest in a test light...it's only 4 bucks, and is well worth it, if you do enough electrical stuff...even if you don't!

the_skin_eater
08-17-2004, 09:43 PM
thanx for that...i will look for the 86, tho, the second pic, which u say is 2nd gen, (like i got) does not match up with my car, hmmm. but any who, i will try.---edit---i was lookin at it again, i dont think that the pic dissplayed, cause the second one from top is not showin up...

M.Nguyen
08-17-2004, 11:34 PM
On the 4th post on that page, that's what you're gonna be looking at...i did my 2g first, then went to the 1st gen.

anyways, this should help you out a little better as well.
(Sorry, it was night, and i couldn't see, so outta 8ish pics, this was the only one to be decent.)

http://www.matthewnguyen.org/mark/upload/fanwire.JPG


That's what a second gen UHJB (UnderHood Junction Box) should look like.

When you're looking at it (from the driver's side) it's the facing the engine, it's the top left.

If you're looking at the car (standing in front instead of the side) it will be the bottom left. Look and compare...if you're still confused, lemme know.

And for you first genners,
http://www.matthewnguyen.org/mark/upload/DSCN5485.JPG

Luke
08-18-2004, 09:15 AM
M.

God man, what size wire are you using :o:

The current draw is a trickle flow. Also, I cut a strip of bourilium (sp?) which slips into the slot perfectly, and soldered it to the end of my wire leading to the switch. ;)
==================
** One VERY HAPPY person, with my manual radiator fan switch, Thanks to Wolf's guidance ** 95 SL2, 387,233 Miles..... 40.35 MPG (10 Tank Full Avg) as of Aug 18, '04. Quaker State 10w-40 Oil, using 1 qt / 1,000 miles

M.Nguyen
08-19-2004, 12:52 AM
18AWG. I had smaller, but i used those for remote wires, and i figured i've never used this roll (i have like a 200 foot roll that has been untouched for atleast 2 years) so i used that in my 93 and 97 sl2...and haven't used it since. HAhaha...It works well if i fold it upwards, but in my 97 (top pic) you can actually see where i cut about half of the wires so it wouldn't interfere with any of the other terminals. Seeing as the posts are skinner on the relays. Oh well, It works, and i'm happy!

Luke
08-19-2004, 08:51 AM
ok

the_skin_eater
08-19-2004, 09:59 AM
hey, thanx a lot for the help. ill get to this soon now.

Fricken eh!
08-20-2004, 03:15 AM
yeah but you are still flipping a switch on and off anyway.... its the same thing as doing it the way i said with the ac, except you don't have to wire anything.

^^^^^^^ Granted, but when you're driving in stop & go freeway traffic that procedure is not as affective as a permanent alternative. Luke []
Senior Member

geartooth94
09-13-2004, 03:44 PM
I just finished this project in my 94 SL2. I should have done it when I first got the car.

I used 22 gauge speaker wire, as the current being carried by the wiring is less than 100mA . I used a lighted SPDT switch, but I can confirm that my switch definitely does not light. The relay terminal that we run the wire from only goes to ground or does nothing: +12 volts does not come into play anywhere in the circuit.

The single wire runs from the UHJB (cool fan relay) and is wire-tied to the fat UHJB cabling that runs through the firewall and through a large rubber grommet. I had to poke through that rubber off to the side with a metal coat hanger to get the wire through. From there I ran the wire down the firewall on the inside and behind the clutch switch and then underneath the carpeting driectly behind the pedals. The wire then runs near the shifter cables where it meets the switch in the dash just above the ash tray / coin holder. The single wire from under the hood is wired to the center terminal and another wire on a separate terminal on the switch runs to a ground brace right behind the in-car fuse panel.

I used a Unibit Speedpoint bit to get my holes drilled straight and with little mess and fuss. I had to drill through both the radio surround plastic and the shiny plastic part of the dash that is behind that piece next to the cig. lighter socket. The switch itself is mounted about a half inch to the right of the cig. lighter socket.

This is really going to be helpful when sitting in city traffic or sitting in parking lot with A/C off and the engine running. Both my ECTSs and thermostat have been replaced, so my cooling system is in tip-top shape. Once I go over a little more than 1/2 way on the temp gauge, it's time for the fan to come on!

Thanks all for the advice and I may post a couple pics to clarify.

the_skin_eater
09-13-2004, 07:34 PM
please put those pics...i wanna see ur switch location, for i need to find sumwhere. any one know if there are plastic pieces that fill the void from rasio install kits?

M.Nguyen
09-13-2004, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
I used a lighted SPDT switch, but I can confirm that my switch definitely does not light.


Mine lights...

geartooth94
09-15-2004, 01:56 PM
ok, smart-aleck, how does your switch light?! :o)

David 93 SL2m
09-15-2004, 04:22 PM
Initially I tried to use a lighted switch with three terminals for my manual fan switch, but it didn't work the right way. Either it lit up all the time or it lit up when the fan was off - backward from my intention. :rolleyes:

So for my manual radiator fan switch, I ended up using a simple two terminal switch. The new wire runs from the grounding side of the existing relay for the fan to one side of my switch and then another new wire runs to a grounding point. Simple. :)

But, I wanted a light to come on indicating the fan is running. So I added an LED! Again, there are two terminals - well, two wires in this case. The positive wire for the LED runs to the cigarette lighter where it gets power, and the negative wire for the LED runs to the new fan switch connecting to the switch terminal where the new wire runs from the existing relay. So when I "turn on" my fan by means of my switch, the switch is providing a ground for the existing fan relay and for the new LED at the same time. :cool:

David 93 SL2m
09-15-2004, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by David 93 SL2m
So I added an LED!I forgot to mention that I added a LED with a built in resistor. This is important. If anybody does use an LED, make sure it either has a built in resistor or wire in your own resistor. The LED I chose to use with a built in resistor is from Radio Shack, catalog number 276-270 (http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=276-270).

bigbird
09-15-2004, 06:38 PM
12V DC will fry an LED. Any resistor between 500 and 1k ohm will do the job. Put the resistor in series with the cathode (short leg) of the LED.

David 93 SL2m
09-15-2004, 06:45 PM
Maybe this will help?

http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/fan-switch-with-led.jpg

The things I drew with a black pen are already on our S-Series cars. The things I drew with a red pen are Wolfman's modifications. The things I drew with a blue pen are my additions with the LED.

Quick explanations.

1) Before we start modifying our car, the only way the radiator cooling fan will come on is when the PCM (car's computer) tells it to come on. A relay is an eletrical switch, usually functioning by means of an electromagnet. A low current control wire goes from a power source to the coil of the relay and then to the PCM which decides if the circuit should be completed by providing a ground. The coil is appropriately named because when electricity flows through a coiled up wire it produces a magnetic field. When the PCM is not grounding the wire for the coil, no low current is flowing across the coil of the relay and the relay is switched open. When the PCM grounds that wire, current flows across the coil of the relay. That makes a magnetic field and affects the "switch" of the relay and the relay "closes" meaning it completes another circuit and allows high current to flow to whatever needs power - in this case it is the fan. When the PCM wants to turn off the fan, it opens the circuit by "ungrounding" the low power wire from the coil of the relay and the relay switches back open, stopping the flow of high current to the fan.

2) Wolfman's modification is to basically add another wire between the grounding side of the relay's coil to a grounding point, which triggers the relay. The easiest point to do this is at the proper terminal of the relay itself. If we ran a wire straight from that point where the relay plugs into the fuse box to a grounding point then the fan would run all the time. So to control that we include a switch along our new wire. Now the fan will come on when the PCM provides a ground for the coil of the relay or when our switch provides a ground for the coil of the relay.

3) My small modification is to add a light to show us when the relay has switched open and the fan is running. The LED only allows current to flow in one direction! It is important to use a LED with a built-in resistor or we need to add our own resistor. (In case anybody is curious, with incandescent bulbs the base of the bulb serves as a resistor.) We can provide current to the LED by tapping the orange wire for the cigarette lighter because that wire is hot all the time. Of course before working with this wire we should make sure that there isn't any electricity flowing in that wire! Okay, so we run a new wire between the orange wire of the cigarette lighter and the positive wire of the LED. Halfway done. Now if we were to attach another new wire to the negative wire of the LED to a grounding point then the LED would be on all the time the cigarette lighter has power. But we want it to come on and off in tandem with the fan. So to do that we want the LED to get grounded when the coil of the fan's relay is grounded. The easiest way to do this is to use the switch that we use when following Wolfman's directions. In my diagram we can see that attaching the new wire from the negative side to the "positive" side of the new switch will get the job done. We could attach it anywhere between the grounding side of the relay and the new switch. Again going for simplicity, it is easiest to do this at the switch itself. Now when we use the switch to turn the fan on, we are providing a ground for the coil of the fan's relay as well as for the LED.

I hope this makes sense...

David 93 SL2m
09-18-2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by David 93 SL2m
I forgot to mention that I added a LED with a built in resistor. This is important. If anybody does use an LED, make sure it either has a built in resistor or wire in your own resistor. The LED I chose to use with a built in resistor is from Radio Shack, catalog number 276-270 (http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=276-270). Originally posted by bigbird
12V DC will fry an LED. Any resistor between 500 and 1k ohm will do the job. Put the resistor in series with the cathode (short leg) of the LED. The LED I used is for 12 VDC, draws only 15 mA, has a built-in resistor, needs a 9/32 inch (7.14375 mm) mounting hole, and costs $2 (USD). Later I will post a picture of my switch and LED installed in my 1993 SL2. Here is a scan of the package from the LED that I used:
http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/rs-276-270.jpg

geartooth94
09-18-2004, 10:04 AM
David, that is an awesome idea. As soon as I got through your second paragraph, I knew exactly what you were referring to.

It's also cool because I just ordered more 12V LEDs from superbrightLEDs.com again and I will have some left over. The ones I'm getting have in-line resistors, so this will be a simple job!

Thanks again!

geartooth94
09-18-2004, 10:10 AM
....I just hope I don't have to move that confounded HVAC unit to get at the orange cigarette lighter wire!! I really despise that HVAC unit. Saturn didn't design it to be easily removed!

David 93 SL2m
09-18-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
It's also cool because I just ordered more 12V LEDs from superbrightLEDs.com again and I will have some left over. The ones I'm getting have in-line resistors, so this will be a simple job!Yes, I used SuperBrightLEDs (http://www.superbrightleds.com/) for the LEDs in my instrument panel and HVAC controls. These LEDs are sort of three dimensional...
http://www.superbrightleds.com/store/html/images/wled-b.jpg
...whereas the LED I chose at Radio Shack is two dimensional - it is sort of flat when mounted...
http://www.radioshack.com/images/ProductCatalog/ProductImage/276/276-270.jpg
The chrome ring near the end away from the wires is a nut and some sort of ring washer. After we drill a small hole for the LED, we remove the nut and washer, we insert the LED into our hole from the front side, we place the washer and nut on the backside, and make it finger tight. Hmmm, maybe the washer goes on the front side? Before doing this you might want to first solder on some longer wires to the existing wires. Since these LEDs don't draw much current it is okay to use thin high-gauge wire. By the way Radio Shack sells these in a few colors: red (catalog number 276-270 (http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=276-270)), green (catalog number 276-271 (http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=276-271)), and orange (catalog number 276-272 (http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=276-272)).
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
....I just hope I don't have to move that confounded HVAC unit to get at the orange cigarette lighter wire!! I really despise that HVAC unit. Saturn didn't design it to be easily removed! No, accesing the orange wire for the cigarette lighter is easy. Remove the panel on the lower left side of the center console thing - the door that is the "mirror twin" of the passenger compartment fuse/relay door - and you'll notice it. The orange wire might be wrapped in black electrical tape with a few other wires. I can't remember and my car is on the road at the moment. Just remember that the orange wire is "hot" even when our key is not in the ignition...

David 93 SL2m
09-18-2004, 07:39 PM
Here is a picture of the orange wire for the cigarette lighter. We can easily access it after taking off the panel for the side of the center console, removing some of the electrical tape covering the group of wires, and gently moving the orange wire away from the other wires in the group.
http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/orange-wire-for-cigarette-lighter-small.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/orange-wire-for-cigarette-lighter.jpg)

Here is a picture of my manual radiator cooling fan switch and the LED that indicates when the fan is running.
http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/fan-switch-and-led-small.jpg (http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/fan-switch-and-led.jpg)

Both pictures are actually hyperlinks to larger versions of the same pictures. Click either picture to make it bigger.

geartooth94
09-19-2004, 01:30 PM
I'm assuming the picture uploading for this site is now fixed? I just took a ton of pics on the install of my switch that I'd like to post here soon.

Razorbak
09-19-2004, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by 94SL2withphone
I'm assuming the picture uploading for this site is now fixed?

Not yet.

geartooth94
09-25-2004, 09:38 AM
test

the_skin_eater
09-25-2004, 10:52 PM
I just did mine today..was easy. I used a switch without the light, didnt see the need for a lit one for this...i mounted the switch on the small plastic piece under the center radio thing that u can take out...the empty space in the pic above...it looks real good for usin a poket knife to cut the hole...

geartooth94
09-26-2004, 09:48 AM
manual fan wire connected at the relay:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542relay_connect.jpg

wire coming from the UHJB:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542UHJB_closed.jpg


fan wire wire-tied to the main UHJB cable under the hood:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542UHJB_cable.jpg

wire going through the firewall in the grommet that holds the main UHJB cable:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542firewall.jpg

wire coming down the firewall on the inside of the car behind the clutch pedal:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542behind_clutch.jpg

geartooth94
09-26-2004, 09:50 AM
running parallel to my shift cables under the radio/HVAC area:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542floor_cables.jpg

the excess length of wires ties up to ton eof the metal frames:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542wires_tied.jpg

the manual radiator fan switch:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/5542switch_panel.jpg

geartooth94
09-26-2004, 09:55 AM
I should note that the wire going to ground is not pictured. It is underneath the passenger's kick panel where the fuses are. It is connected to the frame exactly opposite of the one you see in the wires_tied picture.

I just drilled a hole in the metal and used an electrical terminal connector to connect the wire to the frame.

To get the wire through the firewall, I duct taped it to a metal coat hanger and just pushed it through. It came through about 12 inches above the clutch switch, so I just used small pieces of duct tape to keep it out of the way of annything moving (clutch switch, pedal, etc....)

This thing just works, it's almost Mac-like!

David 93 SL2m
09-26-2004, 10:38 AM
94SL2withphone's pictures are great.

My manual fan switch setup looks exactly the same with a few very, very minor differences: I used a different switch.
I drilled a hole in the side of the cover of the fuse/relay box, threaded the new wire through the new hole, and then put the end of the new wire into the apropriate slot for existing relay (the one closest to the bolt). Inside the box I left about 1 foot of the new wire so when I remove the cover of the fuse/relay box it can be moved easily to the top of the battery. Making and using this new hole allows the cover of the fuse/relay box to close all the way and not "crush" our new wire. For grounding my new wire, I soldered a spade connector to the end of the wire. Then I loosened a bolt in the left side of the "H" frame thing that was already grounding something (the radio?), slipped my spade connector for the new wire into place, then tightened the bolt again.

the_skin_eater
09-26-2004, 03:59 PM
^^thats how i grounded mine...xcept i didnt have any way of crimpin or sadering so i just remover the bolt and stuk it in between

geartooth94
09-27-2004, 06:43 PM
you should really solder if you can.

I just soldered a cheap spade lug terminal to the wire, then ran a bolt through the terminal and connected it to ground. It's a good, solid connection to the metal and is well worth it!

Besides, soldering irons and solder is dirt cheap, even at Radio Shack you'll spend less than $20.00 . Instructions for soldering the CORRECT way can be found online and to tell you the truth it's really easy. I taught myself in 6th grade!

geartooth94
09-27-2004, 06:47 PM
oh yeah, the wire running underneath the UHJB fuse box doesn't really get crushed too much. Plastic on plastic and that sort of thing. Also the wire gauge is so small (22 AWG) that it's almost a non-issue.

If I get really bored one day, I'll take my Dremel to it, but that's if I have NOTHING to do that day, which rarely ever happens!

Luke
09-28-2004, 01:36 PM
And just as a side note, I soldered the wire, which was to be connected to the relay switch, to a narrow strip of beryllium and it slipped into the slot perfectly.

geartooth94
09-30-2004, 11:32 AM
I didn't have to use anything on the relay contact. I just slid the wire in there and popped the relay back in.

The gauge of the wire (22) seemed perfect for just friction to do its thing.

gat1954
01-09-2005, 05:37 PM
Elijo Has a Great Idea.... with another Switch, but I found one that is adjustable... Kinda COOL !!!!!

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/c-10101/s-10101/p-178925/mediaCode-ZX/appId-384719


MECHANICAL ADJUSTABLE SWITCH
Sensor mounts on radiator core for accurate readings
Turns fan on or off when engine coolant reaches any temperature from 170 to 240 Fahrenheit. Includes wire, hardware and instructions. For 6- or 12-volt systems.


Item Description Unit SKU# Price Qty. Order
Mechanical Adjustable Thermostat Switch Each ZX378602B $19.99

Razorbak
01-09-2005, 05:47 PM
MECHANICAL ADJUSTABLE SWITCH
Sensor mounts on radiator core for accurate readings
Turns fan on or off when engine coolant reaches any temperature from 170 to 240 Fahrenheit. Includes wire, hardware and instructions. For 6- or 12-volt systems.

How is that going to work? The thermostat feeding coolant flow to the rad only opens above 182 degrees, and the PCM turns the fan on anyway when the coolant reaches 226 degrees. :?:

Luke
01-10-2005, 09:23 AM
Razorbak

I believe that the "adjustable" feature is where, for example in my case, I could set the fan to activate when the coolant temperature reading (per the radiator insert) reachs (say) 195 degrees.

That feature would certainly eliminate my having to excessively check my temperature guage, to determine if I should manually activate my fan.

That ability, I'd like to have on my wife's Buick, for she does alot of city driving.

However, with all that in mind, I remain:

** One VERY HAPPY person, with a manual radiator fan switch, its addition accomplished with Wolfman's considerably patient guidance ** :yes:

Razorbak
01-10-2005, 10:15 AM
Razorbak

I believe that the "adjustable" feature is where, for example in my case, I could set the fan to activate when the coolant temperature reading (per the radiator insert) reachs (say) 195 degrees.

Gotcha. I missed the adjustable part. Sorry for the confusion.

Luke
01-10-2005, 12:25 PM
I actually felt you missed the word -- it's just not like you to "not understand" :zzz:

gat1954
01-26-2005, 06:55 PM
Luke.............. Thanks for The Comments... !!!

I found some nice Automatic Thermo Senser Switches at GATEWAY ELECTRONICS, here in San Diego... we have a lot of Military, Biotech, and Defense Needs...so we see all kinds of stuff around here.... The Thermo Senser Switches,,are about the Size of a Dime, that you can mount on the Radiator or Engine,,, at Different Temperatures,,, 150 thru 300 Degrees Farenheit for Example... (in 10 Degree increments), that make Contact or Ohm Readings of 0.0 at the Trip Temp... FOR ONLY .75 Cents Each... They have Two Prongs for Connection Purposes... and an additional Little Two Screw Bracket to attach the Thermoswitch against either the Radiator or say Engine,,, or Better Yet JB WELD it..

I will be testing the Girlfriend's Car, with this.. ..and Get back.. ..with Pictures, etc... to See if they Work... Consistently, in an PROPER AREA to get the Trip Temperature Point.. and see when they Shut off...

These then would be wired to the Fan Relay, Top Wire Left Insert , as Stated in the Above Post.... and to a Ground... This Then would do the Tripping Automatically For you....

I think then a Light in the Dash, is kinda Nice Idea to see as well, and of Course the Manual Over-Ride is always there Too...
If the factory can't come up with a Proper Thermo Fan Senser Switch Switch, ...we can

Luke
01-27-2005, 09:34 AM
>> gat 1954 <<

Well, WELL explained. Please, keep us informed; I, for one, am very interested. Thank You.

Razorbak
01-27-2005, 09:49 AM
If the factory can't come up with a Proper Thermo Fan Senser Switch Switch, ...we can

Sorry, but I still do not accept the premise of your argument.

David 93 SL2m
07-06-2005, 07:54 PM
Elijo Has a Great Idea.... with another Switch, but I found one that is adjustable... Kinda COOL !!!!!

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/c-10101/s-10101/p-178925/mediaCode-ZX/appId-384719


MECHANICAL ADJUSTABLE SWITCH
Sensor mounts on radiator core for accurate readings
Turns fan on or off when engine coolant reaches any temperature from 170 to 240 Fahrenheit. Includes wire, hardware and instructions. For 6- or 12-volt systems.


Item Description Unit SKU# Price Qty. Order
Mechanical Adjustable Thermostat Switch Each ZX378602B $19.99
Don't laugh but I bought this thing and guess what - it works and it works well! It is JC Whitney (http://www.jcwhitney.com/) catalog item ZX378602B (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Search?catalogId=10101&storeId=10101&sku=ZX378602B). I bought it and installed it because my wife always forgets to look at the temperature gauge on the dashboard and to turn on the radiator cooling fan manually as needed. Also I confess that once in a while I forget to turn the radiator cooling fan off after I've turned it on manually and the temperature gauge on the dashboard looks okay again.

Installing it was easy. I secured the temperature probe at the top of the radiator (away from the fins) using a zip-tie and one of the existing holes. I could not find a decent place to mount the thermostatic switch unit, so I wrapped the two electrical connections with part of a white plastic grovery bag and then covered most of it with black electrical tape. There is an uninsulated wire running between the temperature probe and the thermostatic switch unit. It seems to me we'd want to keep these two components close to each other. To get the thermostatic switch unit to automatically turn the radiator cooling fan on and off automatically using the temperature probe we connect it in the same manner as Wolfman instructed with the manual fan switch. To be safe I still have my manual fan switch. So basically the radiator cooling fan turns on when the coil in its relay is grounded by one (or more) of the following: The PCM grounds the relay's coil based on the coolant temperature sensor, the air conditioner, etc. The manual switch grounds the relay's coil because we closed the circuit. The thermostatic switch unit grounds the relay's coil based on the new temperature probe.The thermostatic switch unit came set to the minimum temperature to activate the radiator cooling fan, so as soon as I connected things the radiator cooling fan turned on. I adjusted the new switch until the radiator cooling fan turned off and then turned it a bit further. Over the course of maybe 4 trips in the car I was able to adjust the switch so that more or less the radiator cooling fan turns on when the temperature gauge on the dash board is about halfway between the 1/2 and the 3/4 marks. The radiator cooling fan turns off when the temperature gauge on the dash board is about one-fourth of the way away from the 1/2 mark and moving toward the 1/4 mark. I hope all of this makes sense. The points at which this turns the radiator cooling fan on and off vary slight each time but it is close enough for me to not worry about running the engine too hot anymore - even with the manual fan switch that many of us have installed.

One interesting note: after we turn the engine off this thermostatic switch unit makes the radiator cooling fan turn on and off one or two more times because the temperature probe is sensing the heat under the hood. No problems here.

Attached are some pictures that might help.

Leadsled Coupe
09-06-2005, 02:13 PM
I wonder why Saturn engineers deisgned it to wait so long. Save electricity?????

More fuel efficient at higher temperatures I believe.

sierrap615
09-07-2005, 12:31 AM
More fuel efficient at higher temperatures I believe.
only to a point. when you start to overheat the PCM infact runs richer to help cool the combustion chamber.

saturnsctwo
09-07-2005, 02:21 PM
why do all this? the saturn is designed to run at those temps. it takes my guage a while to go past the center. most of the time, it stays just to the left of center like it's suposed to. anyway, just hit the ac control if your guage starts to creep beyond the center, why install a switch?

chinch33
09-08-2005, 10:07 AM
My engine gets hotter when I turn on the AC, eventhough it is activating the fan. If I am in a traffic jam or something, my temp gague will eventually go in to the red if i'm at a standstill for 10 minutes or so on hot days. So, I can see where this switch would give me the advantage of being able to turn on the fan when I am in stop and go traffic before the temp gets too hot.

saturnsctwo
09-08-2005, 10:18 AM
My engine gets hotter when I turn on the AC, eventhough it is activating the fan. If I am in a traffic jam or something, my temp gague will eventually go in to the red if i'm at a standstill for 10 minutes or so on hot days. So, I can see where this switch would give me the advantage of being able to turn on the fan when I am in stop and go traffic before the temp gets too hot. dude, your car needs service. your overheating because of a bad temp sensor i bet. have it checked out. you don't want to overheat an aluminum engine. sure the manual fan works in your case, but you should get the car fixed. when i turn on the a/c, my engine temp goes way down. it takes a long time for the temp to go high enough to turn on the fan with the a/c off. you also might need a new thermostat, & a radiator cleaning might be in order...

sierrap615
09-08-2005, 11:30 PM
more likey the have a heat transfer problem, or possibly a A/C charge problem. the A/C condenser produces an extrime amount of heat, more then the radiator. the fan comes on with the A/C to help displace the heat generated from the condenser. if the condenser generates more heat then normal(charge problem) or the fan can not displace the heat(airflow/heat transfer problem) the radiator can absorb the extra heat and in turn make the engine run hotter.

David 93 SL2m
09-09-2005, 07:16 PM
One important thing to keep in mind is Saturn recalibrated the temperature gauge starting with the 1995 model year. The tick marks on the 1991 - 1994 Saturn temperature gauges do not correspond to the same temperatures as the tick marks on the 1995 - 2002 Saturn temperature gauges. Want to guess why Saturn changed this...?

Raptor Cardel
10-10-2005, 02:14 PM
Waahay! This was my first modification. I completed it about 3 weeks ago on my 92 Saturn. Hell, The 92 is just my beater car until I can get my 95 repaired and ready to go. However, after doing this mod I almost felt a physical bite on my forearm.. I was bitten by the mysterious and deadly to the pocket book.. MOD BUG!

Le gasp! I am now compelled to modifying my 95 when it's completed.... Thanks alot, Wolf. You've totally destroyed my inhabitions on car modifications... My Wallet WEEPS because of you! :P