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View Full Version : Caliper replace confusion :(


brokendown
01-10-2012, 06:05 PM
What are the little copper washers for that came with my caliper :(

There's no instructions with what i'm doing and I wasn't linked to any here, was told its "simple" just unbolt the four bolts then move over the brake line. I have two copper washers I can't figure out where they should go.

bumpdraft
01-10-2012, 06:08 PM
Banjo Bolt Washers.
One each side of the "Banjo" (the square end of the Brake Hose)

I tried re-using them and ....it did not work. New Washers each time the Banjo Bolt is removed.

Kid you not:
I just finished replacing the rear calipers of my sister's and bro-in-law's Blazer.
$900 estimate - (re:yes:built)parts cost = amount we saved.

These calipers came with Aluminum washers, but we used copper ones from the HELP tree.

fdryer
01-10-2012, 06:56 PM
Copper crush washers to deform to the cast iron caliper, steel fitting, and bolt to seal against high pressure hydraulic oil. Used once only.

spacemanspif
01-10-2012, 07:47 PM
Make sure the old washer is not still stuck to the "banjo" (end of the brake line). If it is, you will never get a seal. It was probably stuck on the caliper but check to make sure, no sense doing things twice because you didn't check.

But yeah, the copper washers go between the brake line end and the caliper.

brokendown
01-10-2012, 09:22 PM
What should the brake bolts be tightened to? The torque specs thread has nothing on brakes. :(

Numbers for the slide pins, the larger bolts that link the two parts of the caliper together, and the brake hose i'm putting those 'banjo' washers on now. I just snugged them a bit until I could find specs. :P

off-track
01-10-2012, 10:11 PM
Caliper support to knuckle: 110 Nm (81 lb ft).
Lube pin shafts (but not threads).
Check that caliper piston boot is flush
Pad wear indicators go at the top of the bracket.
Pin through the caliper body into the caliper support. 36 Nm (27 lb ft).
Rotate the brake hose so that it loops to the rear and connect the brake hose to the caliper with NEW washers.
Tighten the brake hose-to-brake caliper to 49 Nm (36 lb ft).
Lug nuts in crisscross pattern to 140 Nm (103 lb ft).

brokendown
01-10-2012, 11:20 PM
Caliper support to knuckle: 110 Nm (81 lb ft).
Lube pin shafts (but not threads).
Check that caliper piston boot is flush
Pad wear indicators go at the top of the bracket.
Pin through the caliper body into the caliper support. 36 Nm (27 lb ft).
Rotate the brake hose so that it loops to the rear and connect the brake hose to the caliper with NEW washers.
Tighten the brake hose-to-brake caliper to 49 Nm (36 lb ft).
Lug nuts in crisscross pattern to 140 Nm (103 lb ft).

Thank you.. though i'm confused at a point because I still don't know what i'm doing really. "Caliper piston boot is flush..." I assume thats the rubber over the pin shaft, and meaning just that no pin shaft is exposed?

Should the pad wear indicator be attached to the pad or the caliper? I actually dont remember seeing it on either part, either on what I took off or what I put on. :(

The only other thing i'm confused about is there was a metal clip or something sticking up from one of the pads of each set. (unless that's the pad wear indicator??) When I took off my original brake pads the previous was located near the bottom/floor on the inside/towards the car, so I just put the new ones in accordingly. The brakes were bedded into the discs in that position, I hope if that was actually the wear indicator it didn't cause a problem but i'm sure it's how the brakes were previously done from the dealership. I could try to get a picture if it helps.

spacemanspif
01-11-2012, 12:42 AM
Thank you.. though i'm confused at a point because I still don't know what i'm doing really. "Caliper piston boot is flush..." I assume thats the rubber over the pin shaft, and meaning just that no pin shaft is exposed?

The caliper piston is what makes the brakes work. It is the "bucket" that makes the brakes squeeze the rotor. Our brakes just 1 big one. The piston boot is what seals the piston from the brake dust and other bits that are bad for hydraulic systems, making sure the boot is flush is a safety measure to ensure your parts do not prematurely fail
Should the pad wear indicator be attached to the pad or the caliper? I actually dont remember seeing it on either part, either on what I took off or what I put on. :(

The only other thing i'm confused about is there was a metal clip or something sticking up from one of the pads of each set. (unless that's the pad wear indicator??) When I took off my original brake pads the previous was located near the bottom/floor on the inside/towards the car, so I just put the new ones in accordingly. The brakes were bedded into the discs in that position, I hope if that was actually the wear indicator it didn't cause a problem but i'm sure it's how the brakes were previously done from the dealership. I could try to get a picture if it helps.

That metal tab is the wear indicator. If you bought cheap pads they might not have come with indicators but it sounds like yours did. I'm not sure if orientation is crucial I think I always did it however the previous pads were oriented.

brokendown
01-11-2012, 12:36 PM
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26912&d=1326249252

This other persons picture is what I have, just like this. It's facing down like in this picture, which is how the previous brakes were done by the dealership. There is no wear indicator attached to it that I can tell, although this seems to be where it was supposed to go if there was one.

Since there's no wear indicator I assume it no longer matters which way it is? :P

alordofchaos
01-11-2012, 01:04 PM
There is no wear indicator attached to it that I can tell, although this seems to be where it was supposed to go if there was one.
That IS the wear indicator... just a piece of metal that portrudes a little past the backing material of the brake pad. As the pad wears away, eventually that piece of metal will contact the rotor and produce the screeching sound that tells you it's time for new pads :)

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/disc-brake7.jpg

And this is the caliper piston (in the red circle)... when you press on the brake pedal, it pushes outward, which squeezes the pads onto the rotor

brokendown
01-14-2012, 04:55 PM
What do I do if the old crush washers will ABSOLUTELY not come off, can they be reused? :-/ I don't really have a vise I can put it in and chisel off while it's leaking brake fluid all over the floor, on one side they came off fine, on the other they're refusing to come off.

rollin_96
01-14-2012, 05:14 PM
Crush washers CAN NOT BE REUSED.
If you their stuck to the cali, try striking the caliper with a hammer.
Best bet get new cali.

brokendown
01-15-2012, 02:16 PM
I finally got the one side off with a chisel...

But this brings up the question, does not be reused mean any time it's removed for ANY REASON even if it's 5 minutes after the first time you tighten it down it has to be replaced? I've already had to attach detach reattach the hose more than once while working through this, with the new washers already in place on the other side.

ssicarman
01-15-2012, 03:21 PM
Not to be reused means that you don't want to use it for final repair. You can use them to temporarily seal the system during repair. You really really don't want to let the master cylinder run dry of brake fluid. Opens a whole new world of hurt.

87z16
01-15-2012, 04:55 PM
if you attempt to reuse the crush washer IT WILL LEAK BRAKE FLUID PERIOD. DO NOT EVER DO THIS.

since the washer already took up the slack there will NOT be enuff copper to hold the fluid back on the second time. it really is not worth the attempt to save what a $1 a side. in the long run you will wish you just spent the money the first time. your calipers WILL leak. and you wont be able to bleed the brake lines properly.

off-track
01-15-2012, 10:38 PM
FWIW, DORMAN Part # 484180. $4.80 for a pack of 10 or $1.54 ea from RA. Appears to be special order from the FLAPS but YMMV?

cheapybob
01-16-2012, 11:01 AM
I always wondered what those were for!

I guess I'm lucky I never had leaks...

I'm no mechanic, LOL

brokendown
01-17-2012, 07:56 PM
if you attempt to reuse the crush washer IT WILL LEAK BRAKE FLUID PERIOD. DO NOT EVER DO THIS.

since the washer already took up the slack there will NOT be enuff copper to hold the fluid back on the second time. it really is not worth the attempt to save what a $1 a side. in the long run you will wish you just spent the money the first time. your calipers WILL leak. and you wont be able to bleed the brake lines properly.

Not to beat a dead horse (as I plan to replace these, just trying to understand better) but this means if I literally tighten it up, and loosen it again, and retighten it it's already bad? I can't EVER even untighten the fastener without the seal being ruined?

It's not $1 per side but trying to avoid bleeding the brakes AGAIN in 0 degree weather that i'm trying to avoid right now. :-/ No rule of thumb like "if no sign of leaking it's fine" or something?

87z16
01-17-2012, 09:10 PM
well depends how tight you go. snug yes you can reuse them but if u tighten fully they are on and can not be reused. once they are compressed thats it.

brokendown
01-25-2012, 03:04 PM
Well I had them fairly hand snug with 3/8 inch ratchet, and removed, and resnugged, and removed several times while still figuring out what to do. (ie at first I had two washers on/the original ones didn't remove and I didn't catch it, etc.) I finally torqued them to proper specs (which was notably past what i'd snugged them to) and so far they are showing no signs of leaking. No drips or anything I can tell (temps are finally back up to 30deg and i'm bleeding today) so is this a reasonable guess I should be okay?

I'm assuming if they werent okay the sign of dripping should be obvious. :P