Taking out my Air Conditioning system

[IVIYTH0S]

Tomorrow I'm taking out all of A/C system since it doesn't work and I don't really care for A/C. I will be picking up the new belt in the morning. I wasn't sure if anyone else removed the A/C system on here and could maybe shoot me some pointers. Perhaps the next mod I could do to make my car better. (Probably will take out the spare tire and stuff, already removed my floor mats)

I also have to replace my thermostat, so I figured I'd wait until I could remove the A/C crap first since it would make the job painless (I haven't had the car that long). Naturally the ECTS shall be checked for the new brass one and added as well. (Since I changed my ECTS on my old '97 SL2, but this car was all dealer serviced before I bought it so maybe they already upgraded it)

Oh and I was wondering, since Saturns are pretty much proven oil burners. Should I just run dino or synthetic oil?? Since i'll be changing that too.

Any other things worth mentioning that I'd forget from the new Saturn checklist??

Wish me luck!!

[fdryer]

:tear: I can't give any pointers, just the facts/parts; compressor, condenser coil, filter/drier, suction hose and high pressure hose right up to the firewall side. If you like you can simply plug the two holes left in the firewall fittings with anything that will fit. That should lighten the engine compartment by about 30lbs. :tear:

Regular or synthetic oil won't change an oil burner's characteristics; the advantage of synthetic is longer oil use between changes otherwise changing synthetic at 3k mile intervals is just wasting resources and money. The majority of owners aren't interested in risking/taking advantage of longer oil intervals using synthetic.

[IVIYTH0S]

:tear: I can't give any pointers, just the facts/parts; compressor, condenser coil, filter/drier, suction hose and high pressure hose right up to the firewall side. If you like you can simply plug the two holes left in the firewall fittings with anything that will fit. That should lighten the engine compartment by about 30lbs. :tear:


thanks!! (how come you're sad??)


Regular or synthetic oil won't change an oil burner's characteristics; the advantage of synthetic is longer oil use between changes otherwise changing synthetic at 3k mile intervals is just wasting resources and money. The majority of owners aren't interested in risking/taking advantage of longer oil intervals using synthetic.
I know the oil type won't change the characteristics but I'm saying if the car burns oil wouldn't synthetic be pointless because it's in essence forcing standard oil change intervals?? (and yes I would run long oil change intervals if I could)

[noanoxan]

...I know the oil type won't change the characteristics but I'm saying if the car burns oil wouldn't synthetic be pointless because it's in essence forcing standard oil change intervals?? (and yes I would run long oil change intervals if I could)

if you're burning oil you may have stuck oil control rings. I fixed mine by changing my oil every 1k miles 4 times. on the fourth time I switched from the conventional castrol I was using to rotella t full synthetic. engine seems to run a lot smoother now, and I don't burn a quart every 1k miles anymore. I only burn 1/4 quart now..:p

and you don't have to change synthetic after 3k miles, reguardless of how much you burn. just top it off and change at 4 or whatever the bottle says.

unless you're buying amsoil. 12,000 mile change interval, eh? my ass.

[fdryer]

thanks!! (how come you're sad??)

I like a/c when its HOT and Humid and don't want to sweat. City driving can be murder in bumper to bumper traffic. My days of taking a shower after a few minutes in traffic, sweating, are over. I appreciate getting someplace dry if I don't have to sweat in the seat.

[IVIYTH0S]

if you're burning oil you may have stuck oil control rings. I fixed mine by changing my oil every 1k miles 4 times. on the fourth time I switched from the conventional castrol I was using to rotella t full synthetic. engine seems to run a lot smoother now, and I don't burn a quart every 1k miles anymore. I only burn 1/4 quart now..:p

and you don't have to change synthetic after 3k miles, reguardless of how much you burn. just top it off and change at 4 or whatever the bottle says.

unless you're buying amsoil. 12,000 mile change interval, eh? my ass.
I think that synthetic oil is part of the placebo effect. I used to run it with my old SL2 but since the car burned oil, it was expensive to maintain that. I switched back to dino and the mileage stayed the same and the car was just as peppy as always. And what do ya mean fixed your car???


I like a/c when its HOT and Humid and don't want to sweat. City driving can be murder in bumper to bumper traffic. My days of taking a shower after a few minutes in traffic, sweating, are over. I appreciate getting someplace dry if I don't have to sweat in the seat.
Man up :D

[fdryer]

Man up :D

:sleep: L O L ! :sleep:

[Leafy]

I like a/c when its HOT and Humid and don't want to sweat. City driving can be murder in bumper to bumper traffic. My days of taking a shower after a few minutes in traffic, sweating, are over. I appreciate getting someplace dry if I don't have to sweat in the seat.

Yup I thought about taking out my ac since I always drive with the windows down, until I got stuck in construction traffic for a half hour with a 120* heat index, the ac was a god send.

[NGKTECH]

removing the AC should be no sweat and take 30 minutes or so

[IVIYTH0S]

I removed the compressor and the two lines that goto the firewall. I had to saw one of them off since I didn't have a wrench big enough to get the fitting off the condensor (which hasn't been removed yet, since I heard it's hard and the sun was going down).

I also got the thermostat and ECTS changed out, temp gauge is up where it should be :).

The new shorter belt, as long as the extra space under my hood is awesome.

Once I get a long free day, I'll try to pick apart the remaining pieces of the A/C system (condensor, the few odds and ends I may have overlooked under the hood, and the portion that's in the dash). I'll take out my spare tire/jack and such soon too.


anyone looking for a compressor :D (as the condensor was the broken component)

[noanoxan]

I think that synthetic oil is part of the placebo effect. I used to run it with my old SL2 but since the car burned oil, it was expensive to maintain that. I switched back to dino and the mileage stayed the same and the car was just as peppy as always. And what do ya mean fixed your car???

fixed, meaning it doesn't burn as much oil now. that's about as fixed as they're gonna get. and no, it's not a placebo effect. my engine really is smoother. especially at higher rpms. at least from what I've experienced.

I do know that conventional castrol gtx started looking like black water after about 1k-1200 delivery miles. no viscosity at all. going on 3k with rotella, and it still clings to the dipstick pretty well. still black and smells a bit like gas, but not nearly as bad as with conventional

and $19/gallon isn't really expensive. in fact rotella's the cheapest full synthetic oil afaik. and for some reason az doesn't stock quarts of it. just gallons. dicks.

[2NDSOUT]

Not to sound mean...but why remove the spare tire and jack? You never know anymore when you will need them.

A/C is not as essential as having the spare tire/jack in the trunk.

I can almost guarantee that the day you remove the spare tire and jack from the trunk, will be the day that you need them because you will probably run over a nail or something...stranger things have happened.

[IVIYTH0S]

fixed, meaning it doesn't burn as much oil now. that's about as fixed as they're gonna get. and no, it's not a placebo effect. my engine really is smoother. especially at higher rpms. at least from what I've experienced.

I do know that conventional castrol gtx started looking like black water after about 1k-1200 delivery miles. no viscosity at all. going on 3k with rotella, and it still clings to the dipstick pretty well. still black and smells a bit like gas, but not nearly as bad as with conventional

and $19/gallon isn't really expensive. in fact rotella's the cheapest full synthetic oil afaik. and for some reason az doesn't stock quarts of it. just gallons. dicks.
Yeah I picked up a gallon of Valvoline Synthetic at Walmart for $20, it was definitely cheap enough where I couldn't argue with that.

Not to sound mean...but why remove the spare tire and jack? You never know anymore when you will need them.

A/C is not as essential as having the spare tire/jack in the trunk.

I can almost guarantee that the day you remove the spare tire and jack from the trunk, will be the day that you need them because you will probably run over a nail or something...stranger things have happened.

I appreciate you looking out for me :yes:, but I've never had to use my spare tire/jack in any car I've owned. Yes I've had blow outs but I've never had to use the spare or crappy factory jack. Since I'm never far from home, I'll take the extra fuel economy I will use :). ;)

[Low Saturn]

:That should lighten the engine compartment by about 30lbs. :tear:

And the added benefit of loosing weight over the drive wheels. A lighter front end = less traction. Yey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since I'm never far from home, I'll take the extra fuel economy I will use :). ;)

Do what you want. But removing the spare and jack wont make a bit of difference in MPG.

[alordofchaos]

Do what you want. But removing the spare and jack wont make a bit of difference in MPG.
Yeah, but combined with the weight savings of removing the floor mats.... :D Now we're talking!

[IVIYTH0S]

And the added benefit of loosing weight over the drive wheels. A lighter front end = less traction. Yey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Do what you want. But removing the spare and jack wont make a bit of difference in MPG.
Uh yeah it will, it all adds up. The bottom line is, I don't NEED it therefore I won't lug it around.
It's all the more important since our engine is underpowered.

As far as the traction goes, if the the tires are going to break loose, they're going to break loose. My old SL2 had all it's A/C installed (since it worked) and it had alot worse traction than my SC2 and I'm using the same tires on this car

Yeah, but combined with the weight savings of removing the floor mats.... :D Now we're talking!
Those floormats are so gone already :D

[Low Saturn]

Uh yeah it will, it all adds up.

Not unless everything adds up to several hundred pounds.

Isn't the equation that for every 100 pounds removed, you get some sort of insignificant increase in the power to weight ratio?

[IVIYTH0S]

Not unless everything adds up to several hundred pounds.

Isn't the equation that for every 100 pounds removed, you get some sort of insignificant increase in the power to weight ratio?
It's a good improvment and now on par with an ex honda civic which has a ~0.054 hp/lb ratio, I don't know about you, but I REALLY hate civics and it's pretty sad that even though they are heavier and have a smaller motor, they put out more power and still have a better power to weight ratio. Being overly optimistic about my car's weight loss, both cars are now even in power to weight. Therefore it's ALWAYS important, and in the A/C's case I'm running a shorter belt now so there is less kinetic weight on my engine. (and possibly removing some of the parasitic power saps if there are any)

124hp/2400lb = 0.051667hp/lb
124hp/2300lb = 0.053913hp/lb

[NGKTECH]

Not unless everything adds up to several hundred pounds.

Isn't the equation that for every 100 pounds removed, you get some sort of insignificant increase in the power to weight ratio?

From the words of Colin Chapman:

Adding horsepower will make you faster in the straights, but adding lightness will make you faster everywhere :)

I always though with our cars that removing around 100 or 150lbs was equal to adding 10hp or so.....Its been about 5 years since I've done that calculation though so I could be off a bit.

[madpogue]

I always though with our cars that removing around 100 or 150lbs was equal to adding 10hp or so.....Its been about 5 years since I've done that calculation though so I could be off a bit. If that were true, an SOHC car with four human occupants and luggage wouldn't move. Probably closer to 1-2 hp per 100 lb.

[fetchitfido]

I had a "doner" '94 SL when I removed the A/C from my '93. Took the plastic cap for the firewall pass-through plate and the HVAC panel without the A/C and recirculate buttons. Only wiring left to say there used to be A/C is, I think, for the switch between the driver fender and battery. Technically it's still mostly there, you just can't see 'cause it's cut to hide in the plastic cover thingy.

Kinda want the recirculate button back, just to be different :D

[IVIYTH0S]

If that were true, an SOHC car with four human occupants and luggage wouldn't move. Probably closer to 1-2 hp per 100 lb.
I'd say it follows a curve and not a straight line since the lighter you are, the more it affects you

[NGKTECH]

I just used this power to weight ratio calulator and removing 150lbs is equivalent to adding 10hp depending on how you round.....not to mention it'll help the car corner and brake better.

ajdesigner.com/phphorsepower/horsepower_equation_power_to_weight_ratio.php


I used 124 base hp and 2400lb weight which yields a power to weight of .062

With 124hp and a weight of 2250lbs the power to weight ratio is about the same as a 2400lb weight with 134hp. (.055)

So removing 150lbs is the same as adding 10hp.

[NGKTECH]

Another intesting point to make with this data is that if we were able to get our Saturns weight down to 1200lbs and it still had the stock horsepower of 124, it would have nearly the same power ratio as a stock weight Saturn
(2400lb) with 250hp (flywheel).

[IVIYTH0S]

Another intesting point to make with this data is that if we were able to get our Saturns weight down to 1200lbs and it still had the stock horsepower of 124, it would have nearly the same power ratio as a stock weight Saturn
(2400lb) with 250hp (flywheel).
Yeah I've never related the power/weight gains in terms of adding power to stock (since weight reduction makes everything better) but it's still cool to think about this way.

Basically after I remove my spare tire, jack and the rest of the A/C. It will be like I added ~5hp to my car but also have better braking and handling

[dorisSL]

Yeah I've never related the power/weight gains in terms of adding power to stock (since weight reduction makes everything better) but it's still cool to think about this way.

Basically after I remove my spare tire, jack and the rest of the A/C. It will be like I added ~5hp to my car but also have better braking and handling

if i were you, i'd swap the spare tire for a AAA membership. the card weighs almost nothing, and then you aren't f*ked if you have a flat/blowout

[IVIYTH0S]

if i were you, i'd swap the spare tire for a AAA membership. the card weighs almost nothing, and then you aren't f*ked if you have a flat/blowout
I have AAA :cool:

though what would AAA do for me without a spare?? would they give me one until I get it fixed??

[fdryer]

You can always use these; I've learned to plug my own tires with the boxed kit and air pressure from garages or shop. The canned fixaflat is messy and for use as a last resort if you're nowhere near a source of pressurized air.

[PurdueGuy]

fix-a-flat is evil. Really. Evil. If you hate your tires badly, use fix-a-flat.

[madpogue]

The car came with a spare when it was new, thus you're required to carry it. Extremely unlikely Smokey would ever get you for it, but do you want to take that chance for the 0.2 HP?

[IVIYTH0S]

You can always use these; I've learned to plug my own tires with the boxed kit and air pressure from garages or shop. The canned fixaflat is messy and for use as a last resort if you're nowhere near a source of pressurized air.
That's a good idea too

fix-a-flat is evil. Really. Evil. If you hate your tires badly, use fix-a-flat.
Also if you hate your mechanic, that's one way to really stick it to where ever you get new tires at.

The car came with a spare when it was new, thus you're required to carry it. Extremely unlikely Smokey would ever get you for it, but do you want to take that chance for the 0.2 HP?
Yessir, (and it'd be give or take 1 full horsepower :P) for I'd argue the improvements in the car's maneuverability and stoppability :arr: Maybe not the go-ability though ;)

I guess I need to put my A/C back on since it was factory, and I don't wanna be breaking no laws now:dizzy:

[dorisSL]

I have AAA :cool:

though what would AAA do for me without a spare?? would they give me one until I get it fixed??

tow you up to your mileage limit closer to a tire shop...

[IVIYTH0S]

tow you up to your mileage limit closer to a tire shop...

ah indeed, and since I work like ~2-3 miles from home I'm sure I'd manage :D.

[dorisSL]

ah indeed, and since I work like ~2-3 miles from home I'm sure I'd manage :D.

i was thinking more if you go on any sort of road trip or anything like that.
and i bet your membership would be cheaper than the potential car damage if you were to have to drive those 3 miles home plus the distance to your local tire shop :P

[IVIYTH0S]

i was thinking more if you go on any sort of road trip or anything like that.
and i bet your membership would be cheaper than the potential car damage if you were to have to drive those 3 miles home plus the distance to your local tire shop :P
no no, I'm just saying the mileage for them to tow wouldn't be a problem since I'm so close to home. Naturally I'd never drive the car in that condition :D

If I ever road tripped I'd throw the spare back in, but the lug wrench would stay out (since it's redundant since I carry an X wrench :))