Rear Disc Brakes

[lsuduke]

Hey guys, some of you have been able to help me in the past, so I'm gonna see if anybody can help with this. Ok here goes I have an 06 AWD Vue and I want to put rear disc on, but $900 from SSBC is a bit much for the budget now. Does anyone know if you can swap the parts off an Equinox or Torrent with rear discs to an Vue? Would it require welding to get mounting points for the rear calipers? I'm hoping to get parts from a salvage yard cheap to get this done. Any of you techs who are familiar with these Suv's please let me know if it can be done so I can start looking for parts.

[xtremeranger]

It has been discussed around....no they will not work....mounting is different as far as I kno....

[XRL]

Try it, the biggest possible difference is we may not have the caliper mounting points. Nobody has tried it though. If it works, you'll be a hero. Even if we don't have those point, it's nothing some welding couldn't fix...

[D C]

Brake parts? No. The knuckles are different and they are not interchangeable.

Swap the entire rear suspension though, and you're in business :yes:

[lsuduke]

What knuckles are you talking about in the rear end? Do you mean the ends of the axle shafts, where the backer plates sit? Please be more specific, so I can fully understand the issues you see with it. Thanks for the quick responses.

[D C]

Knuckle = the aluminum "thing" to which all of the suspension arms attach. The hub assembly is mounted to the knuckle. The shock is mounted to the knuckle. It's the "center" of everything that gets attached at the outer part of the suspension.

[lsuduke]

Ok DC but if I'm not swapping the axle how are the "knuckles" in the way? I'm having a hard time trying to figure how they get in the way of the new rotors and calipers. Do you have any diagrams to show me visually, not that I don't believe you, just can't get my mind wrapped around it. Thanks for all the info so far.

[far2grumpy]

Ok DC but if I'm not swapping the axle how are the "knuckles" in the way? I'm having a hard time trying to figure how they get in the way of the new rotors and calipers. Do you have any diagrams to show me visually, not that I don't believe you, just can't get my mind wrapped around it. Thanks for all the info so far.

DC has forgotten more than I know but I do have a illustration of the rear hub with partial view of what I consider to be "knuckles".

See the attached ... if you visualize removing the brake drum, shoes, wheel cylinder, backing plate, etc you'll be left with the hub which has several attach points (knuckles) for suspension components, including upper and lower control arms.

It would be quite a challenge to convert from drum to disc but so was putting a man on the moon and the U.S. that in 1969. :usa:

Good luck to you!

[Tom92SCm]

Knuckle = the aluminum "thing" ..........

Pretty sure it's cast iron.

[lsuduke]

Thanks grumpy that's the image I was looking for, and Tom you are right, cast iron, but I'm still not convinced that this cannot be done, gonna keep looking, I'll let you know how I make out.:dizzy::dizzy:

[XRL]

So here's something to think about. SSBC did it, how did they mount their calipers? Do they include a replacement knuckle? Do they have some other sort of way to mount the calipers? Or is this much easier than we're making it out to be? If someone had a copy of the installation instructions or a part listing for what comes in the kit we'd be able to better understand this.

But FWIW... the rear disc swap is not likely to improve braking performance by much. Not without switching the fronts for a BBK at least.

[far2grumpy]

I've never had my Vue's rear brakes apart so don't know where the ABS sensor picks the signal. Does the rear axle have the toothy ring for wheel speed?

Could muddy the water for swapping to disc's.

But, on the other hand ... the kit would probably accommodate ABS.

[lsuduke]

The SSBC kit comes with a new backer plate that mounts to the end flange of the axle and that is what hold the calipers in place. As far as the ABS, that I believe is only in the front end , and when it senses slip, it engages the rear drive unit, I would have to guess it has an internal speed sensor, as there is nothing visible inside the rear drum. I want to add the sure stopping ability of discs, because I hate the drum brakes and they have been nothing but a problem for the last 2 years, so I want to end that issue and get a little bit better stopping ability, not looking for crazy short stopping distance, just a more reliable set of rear brakes. Most of us know that the fronts do the majority of the work in stopping the vehicle anyway.

[D C]

Ok DC but if I'm not swapping the axle how are the "knuckles" in the way? I'm having a hard time trying to figure how they get in the way of the new rotors and calipers. Do you have any diagrams to show me visually, not that I don't believe you, just can't get my mind wrapped around it. Thanks for all the info so far.

It's not that it's "in the way" of anything. It's just that the knuckles are what hold all of the stuff at the rear and they're not currently designed to hold a brake caliper. No clue how SSBC got around that, but they must have fabricated something.

Here are a couple fairly generic pic of knuckles (not from a VUE, no clue what they're from)

here you can see that the suspension arms (black) attach to a knuckle. The knuckle doesn't have any brake hardware on it,but it does have a hub assembly of some sort. Imagine that you add a brake disc & caliper. That knuckle needs some way for the caliper bracket to attach. Cant see any obvious attachment points on this one.
http://www.sonicoffroad.com/images/new%20index/UTV/DSCF1452.JPG

Another generic knuckle pic with the bearing assy removed. Looks like this is for a strut suspension since you can see the 2 bolts for the strut just above the CV joint boot.
http://z.about.com/d/autorepair/1/0/J/B/101449756.gif

Here's a pic of just a knucle from something else. You can see a ball joint and 3 bushings that are pressed into the "arms" of the knuckle. At the top you can see 2 tabs with holes. This is where the brake hardware would attach. My guess is that this one would be a disc brake, (just from the spacing & orientation of the holes.)
http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt100/cody180sx/IMG_4861.jpg

[D C]

The SSBC kit comes with a new backer plate that mounts to the end flange of the axle and that is what hold the calipers in place. As far as the ABS, that I believe is only in the front end , and when it senses slip, it engages the rear drive unit, I would have to guess it has an internal speed sensor, as there is nothing visible inside the rear drum. I want to add the sure stopping ability of discs, because I hate the drum brakes and they have been nothing but a problem for the last 2 years, so I want to end that issue and get a little bit better stopping ability, not looking for crazy short stopping distance, just a more reliable set of rear brakes. Most of us know that the fronts do the majority of the work in stopping the vehicle anyway.

The ABS uses speed sensors that are built into all 4 of the bearing assemblies. If they re-used the stock bearings, or used one with the same pulse-count, any other modifications wouldn't affect the ABS. Well, they might affect the performance of the ABS, but wouldn't affect the existence of the ABS.

[lsuduke]

DC that 2nd picture of the knuckle is a perfect one for this application, SSBC has a bracket that bolts onto the knuckle and then the caliper hangs off of it. As far as the rear ABS, you may want to check on that again, as the rear bearings I'm looking at are without ABS for AWD Vue's. I'm sure that AWD makes a difference, check it out but I believe I am correct on this one. Thanks for all the info and that picture is perfect...

[D C]

DC that 2nd picture of the knuckle is a perfect one for this application, SSBC has a bracket that bolts onto the knuckle and then the caliper hangs off of it. As far as the rear ABS, you may want to check on that again, as the rear bearings I'm looking at are without ABS for AWD Vue's. I'm sure that AWD makes a difference, check it out but I believe I am correct on this one. Thanks for all the info and that picture is perfect...

So they mount a caliper bracket between the hub assembly and the knuckle, thus widening the track slightly? Braking loads are then reacted by the 4 bolts. Not sure why that wouldn't work, though I'd be somewhat concerned about the loading on those bolts.

And the ABS most definitely uses 4 wheel speed sensors in all cases :yes: ABS and AWD don't care if the other exists or not.

[XRL]

Just to add something to this.

I was looking online at parts, and the rear knuckle is shared between the later Torrents, Noxes, and new Vues. Our knuckle is used on earlier Noxes and Torrents as well. Most likely, these knuckles(and vicariously the rest of the disc brake setup) should be a pretty straight forward swap.

Looks like it'd be substantially cheaper going this route. Could be done for ~$200 for everything...

[Tom92SCm]

Well, keep track of the part numbers that you order and let us know!

[XRL]

I have too many projects right now :P

Maybe after the projectors, interior/seats, and suspension are all done :P