Question on BCM I replaced, 2002 vue

[OPAMP]

2002 vue 2.2L 5speed,keyless entry,power steering and air,sound package.
Our 2002 Vue Had a BCM failure. I had been driving the car myself with it
and found work arounds for the no start when the BCM latched. I found a used Bcm That was out of the same year with keyless entry and the same engine and trans etc. I installed it and did the 30 minute passcode reconfigure. Here is where I am at and my question is can the dealer recalibrate it so this problem leaves.
Problem: start vue then security light comes on and flashes and it stalls
this just repeats.
BUT
If I unhook the battery ground for 10 minutes or so
It will start and the security light comes on and it stalls but on
the second restart the security light never comes on and it will run all day.
The used BCM corrected my no dash or instruments problem immediately.
Now the car is running fine i can drive it and speedo works again [missed that and the tach with the old failed one] The suv will not stall or shutdown while i drive it. The power steering works again after months with none.
But
when i get home and shut it off it may fail a restart [ security light flashes and stays on solid] or it may restart and run fine. I seem to only be able to get a maximum of two restarts out of it and then the security light comes on as soon as the key is in crank position. I tested this by foot off clutch and turning to crank. The clutch switch keeps the starter off but the security light will start flashing and go solid and if it had cranked and started it would now stall quickly.

So..Is this just a keyless entry programing issue that can be calibrated out
if so does my dealer need any more than my keyless entry button pack or should i take the old bcm with me.
By the way after I had this problem i put the old bcm in and it will not start with it at all now. Just an FYI if you do this.
Hope some of you techies can clue me in.
The dealer wants 500.00 for a bcm with cal. They also want to put in a recall for ign module which i had to change years ago so i dont see any point in letting them put in something that had a high failure rate when my aftermarket one is humming for over 30k miles. They should recall the bcm.
Now im not cheap but of all the cars we have owned this is a money pit between multiple wheel bearings and bcm and ign module which trashed cat.
Thanks for the help and I will be investigating what failed in my old bcm once the suv is running ok as it is my wifes.

[far2grumpy]

See the attached service manual extract.

The BCM expects a certain signal when the ignition key is turned.

The voltage sent when your key is turned does not match the expected value stored in the BCM.

You've found "workarounds" to operate the vehicle more or less but could check with a dealer about BCM reprogramming.

[3RedLines]

Could be an intermittent problem with the passlock sensor in the ignition switch. It would seem to me that if it was a programming problem with the BCM it would never start and run.

[far2grumpy]

Could be an intermittent problem with the passlock sensor in the ignition switch. It would seem to me that if it was a programming problem with the BCM it would never start and run.

You could be correct ... the Passlock system is basic ... turning the key sends analog voltage to BCM ... I've always thought there was room for error here.

Perhaps, the code stored in BCM is near level sent from ignition switch?!?

OPAMP ... you did the 30 minute reprogram so you must have the FSM procedures. I've pasted below if you want to review:

30 Minute Learn Procedure

1. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
2. Attempt to start the engine, then release the key to ON, vehicle will not start.
3. Observe the SECURITY telltale, after approximately 10 minutes the telltale will turn OFF.
4. Turn OFF the ignition, and wait 5 seconds.
5. Repeat steps 1 through 4 two more times for a total of 3 cycles / 30 minutes, the vehicle is now ready to relearn the Passlock™ Sensor Data Code and/or passwords on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK.

Important: The vehicle learns the Passlock™ Sensor Data Code and/or password on the next ignition switch transition from OFF to CRANK. You must turn the ignition OFF before attempting to start the vehicle.

6. Start the engine. The vehicle has now learned the Passlock™ Sensor Data Code and/or password.
7. With a scan tool, clear any DTCs if needed. History DTCs will self clear after 100 ignition cycles.

[OPAMP]

First thanks for your replys.
I actually emailed my dealer a couple weeks ago and they asked me to come in for the Ign recall as well as responding to my bcm concern. I called and talked to service and they were not very free with information other than "yes we have seen that bring it in and your looking at around 485.00 and i have one in stock". At that time I was looking to put a new bcm in if needed but between having to do the wheel bearing and now bcm it was not all possible. This is my wifes vehicle and since she purchased it she has become permantly disabled so I care for her car financially now. That is why I did a lot of reading and finally bought the used bcm for 50 bucks. We were going to live with the no keyless entry for a while because her power steering was back as well as tach speedo and fuel gages and the ac works now again. I read every document i could find and found a link in a post to the 30 minute learn. It all seemed to be going fine and the bcm was following the proceedure in the process in terms of lights flashing and going solid again. Before i bought the Bcm i called the yard and asked it they knew it was ok and it came out of a running car with a working dash as i asked that upfront. well the dash does work and the car will run when the passcode doesnt lock out. I read everything you sent and i understand the system now. It may of been a fluke as you mentioned with the learn passlock voltage level. I put this in yesterday afternoon so all the dealers were and are now closed. I thought maybe I could find a way to get it running. I also wanted to know from a saturn tech if it could be a programmed out problem so i could just get it running monday and go to the dealer. My other option is return the bcm for another if you guys thought it was bcm related. The board in the bcm i bought is newer in terms of the style of ic's on it and components. But we
bought our Vue in Feb of 2002 and it was ordered by someone else who had to get an automatic trans due to last minute knee replacements. So it had a very early gen board in it.
I was reading posts last night and i saw some one state this: [SIC]"pretty much if its earlier than an 04 you will have to eventually replace the bcm." Do you agree with that statement?
I do have one more question. Is there a way to put the bcm in the learn mode again once it has been through it once in the vehicle we are talking about. If it was a flakey voltage that caused this perhaps it can be reprogrammed and work.
I work for a Cummins Engine division and do tech help for our techs and dealers. Our high horspower and marine engines that are sync'd have multiple parent child ecms that have to be programmed in specific ways as well so i appreciate the documents you attached and the help.

[far2grumpy]

OPAMP ... I've got no practical experience with BCM on vehicles - ever.

There are some really sharp folks who weigh-in on odd-ball problems, so lets hope they can share a few ideas.

I am curious ... with the new BCM ... what mileage is displayed on your odometer? I've heard the miles are stored in BCM and read to IPC (instrument panel cluster) but you've not mentioned if your IPC shows "old" miles or new.

[3RedLines]

I do have one more question. Is there a way to put the bcm in the learn mode again once it has been through it once in the vehicle we are talking about.

No problem doing that, just do the relearn procedure again. I don't suppose your car has an aftermarket remote start? Some tap into the ign passlock sensor and can make problems.

[OPAMP]

Hi
The bcm is supposed to have mileage but the one i put in only shows trip and will not toggle to total mileage. It does add up as i drove around the block and now have .2 well that is head way i guess.
Doing the relearn again. When i key on the dash goes through normal start up and the security light goes off until i start it. Then it starts to flash the car stalls and if i leave the key on it will stay solid. This repeats so how do I force it to start the 30 minute reconfig over?
I called the dealer and was told by service" Bcm programming is a one time thing and you have to have a new one and it will be 500 to 600." So I will have to replace it. I was just trying to buy some time.
Thanks for all the help.

[3RedLines]

Yeah, you're right about the relearn. After it has the correct password it won't relearn again. Maybe you could put your old BCM back in and do the relearn for it then swap your new back in again. The PCM also learned a password from the newer BCM, so if you put the old one in it would have to relearn.

I've used a 4cyl programmed BCM in a V6 Vue. It worked ok, but the auto doorlock and DRL didn't work properly. When I swapped them back I had to do the relearn again. You may have a bad BCM there if the IPC didn't show total mileage. Maybe the security issue is related.

[fdryer]

If I'm not mistaken, the Passlock relearn routine can be done as often as necessary in order to synchronize the three subsystem computers with each other; the ECM, BCM, and TCM. Since part of the security system is in the ignition switch assembly, turning the ignition switch physically is part of the procedure. Sensors in the ignition switch must be sensed at the appropriate time for the BCM to learn and remember its new surroundings. Simply repeating this procedure and doing exactly as instructed should synch any BCM to the rest of the EFI system. All this does is allows the BCM to learn what the password code is for the existing ECM and TCM, nothing else. This security word is embedded in the ECM along with the ignition switch sensors to tell the BCM what the code is so the BCM can write it into its own flash memory. When the routine is finished, the BCM acknowledges by extinguishing the security light on the fourth and final turn of the ignition switch to the ON/RUN position. If a mistake is made just start all over again, repeating the 30-minute relearn routine. Nothing is lost or damaged. Just follow f2g's instructions in post #4 again. Any incorrect steps done out of sequence results in the security light remaining ON instead of turning off. A few have done this with used BCM's with success. The mileages were different because of the donor vehicle it was removed from. I suspect the VIN also remains from the donor car.

Less than a handful here have access to their own Tech II for experimenting and it remains to be seen whether or not BCM's can be flashed again. It would be interesting, to say the least, as it would take at least one experimental BCM and Tech II reader/scanner with software and someone intelligent to try flashing a used BCM with new parameters to match the vehicle its going into. While we have to perform this routine in 30-minutes, Saturn does it in 10-minutes with their Tech II. :arr:

[OPAMP]

Well I replaced the bcm at the dealer. We had lost one key bob but the new BCM came with 2 new keyless entry bobs in the soft pack with the BCM:). Everything is back to normal and the saturn tech told me they could not of programmed out the problems I was having with the used one. Lesson learned.
The total mileage from the used one just showed up a few days after i had installed the BCM. So Mileage is in the BCM. This was quite a learning experience and i briefly looked at my old failed BCM. It has a cracked Transistor on it. It is a larger power transistor. There appears to be a voltage regulator on the right side of the board that is heat sunk. When the weather gets cold here I will take a much better look at the board and post photos and what I think happened. I wonder if there had been a small fan, like the one on a computer processor, installed on the top vent of the case if this would of happened. The second BCM I bought used did not have any heat sunk components on it and it did have different types and styles of IC's on it.
In case anyone is interested I will tell you what the symptoms were with my failed BCM and what I did to start the car when it would not start.
If it was below 10 degrees F. outside the BCM worked fine for around 10 minutes of driving then went nuts. After it was over 50 degrees in the morning the problems were there at key on.
Symptoms: Random dash lights stay on after starting including but not always the following. Battery, Low oil pressure, parking brake, service engine soon, service wrench, high coolant temp with no fan running, speedometer and tach work sparatically but only for a few minutes and then cease to work. Fuel gage was pinned at full or empty randomly. shift arrow stayed lit sometimes. Power door locks faintly clicking with road speed. if you stop at a stop sign they stop clicking so the vss input was triggering the door locks to cycle but not enough to actually open or close the lock and move the lever.
If I set the cruise control in the first few minutes and it latched then it would work all the way to work. If I kicked it off there was no resume or set until next day. Air conditioning wont work just fan and no power steering. In the morning when i started the car after I drove a few minutes the security light would come on and stay on. once That light came on solid if I shut off or stalled the engine would not restart. I did find a work around for this. By removing the battery feed fuse in the fuse box-large orange fuse- the security light would go off and when i put the fuse back in the car would start and run just fine baring the dash demons..lol. if I didn't pull the fuse the security light stayed on even a half hour after key off and then when I tried to start it it would start and then quickly stall over and over. The fuse box is under the hood by the battery on my wife's vue. If you remove the cover off the fuse box and go to the drivers side / radiator side of the fuse box it was the second fuse back. Now i dont recommend doing this but It could get you home instead of stranded with a no start in the boonies. Thanks for all the input on this.