Mysterious RPM rev??!!??

[beautifulbluvue]

I have an '05 AWD V6 Vue. At any speed around 1500 RPM the engine revs up a couple hundred RPM then falls back down. It doesn't just cut off, it falls steadily. Like if you let your foot off the pedal. It does this in all forward gears. Worse at highway speeds. It also happens in cruise but not as bad. Was wondering if it might be a transmission problem or possibly a thottle position sensor. I am lost. Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. :hmm:

[vue04]

How many miles on the vehicle? If more than 50K, maybe cleaning a sticky throttle body might help. Take off air intake hose and spray cleaner per directions.

[MrHorspwer]

Try doing a drain and fill on your trans fluid.

More than a few members have had some very odd symptoms, from RPM fluctuations to shudders, that have been cured with a simple trans fluid change. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find some threads.

Also, make sure you get the right trans fluid. The Honda powertrain uses Honda Z1 fluid.

[YourMainParadox]

trans issues or do a real good intake clean or that idle air thingy?

[beautifulbluvue]

Thanks for the quick help. I will give the transmission fluid a quick change. Would it be better to do a total exchange or just a quick change? if i do a total exchange should i do the quick change 3 time in a row after driving 15 or20 minutes or just do it for the next three oil changes? Also what kind of tranny fluid do i use. i know it is honda z-1 but is that the same as ATF+4 or Dexron III? thanks again for your help.

[far2grumpy]

I did the 4 quart change with 36K on my 05 ... ATF-Z1 was available at Honda
(9.75 per quart) or GM dealers (7.50 per quart) and a few have posted use of Castrol Import Multi - Vehicle (4.50 per quart) ... here's a link:

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9012226&contentId=7028224

Check on Castrol page to search for stores in your area with this ATF.

[far2grumpy]

BBV ... This supplements previous info re ATF change.

I searched for surging RPM in 05 Vue V-6 portion of FSM.

See attached file ... I should be able to find docs referenced if you need.

[beautifulbluvue]

BBV ... This supplements previous info re ATF change.

I searched for surging RPM in 05 Vue V-6 portion of FSM.

See attached file ... I should be able to find docs referenced if you need.

This is exactly what happens in my Vue. it has done this for a while. we took it to the dealer and they told us it was bad gas. they said their next step would be to put a fuel injector cleaner in and let it buck. they read some pending codes i think. they said it had a random misfire code on all cylinders. I really appreciate the help. this vehicle is my wifes and she drives it daily about 50 miles to and from work. She will be riding with me till i am confident it isn't going to break down and leave her stranded with our two kids. Thanks again.:yes:

[silversurfer13]

i have same kinda problem..05 vue did it since i got it..31,000 now has 41,000 if i take it out of gear and let it coast sometimes the rpm bounces like 50rpm.....sometimes when it starts it wont stop untill i either put it in gear or come to a complete stop...its 5speed manual..2.2L ecotec

[beautifulbluvue]

i have same kinda problem..05 vue did it since i got it..31,000 now has 41,000 if i take it out of gear and let it coast sometimes the rpm bounces like 50rpm.....sometimes when it starts it wont stop untill i either put it in gear or come to a complete stop...its 5speed manual..2.2L ecotec

I had that problem in a Honda accord i owned once. it was a warped intake. do you know if the engine ever over heated or the head gasket blew. just a thought.

[beautifulbluvue]

So i am stupid.:dizzy: i don't know if i just missed it or was in a hurry. i was trying to drain the tranny fluid, missed the tranny all together. Think i drained a little TC fluid. My question is what kind of fluid is in the TC and is it alright to drain and replace the fluid? i would rather do this than try and guess how much drained. the plug was only off for a sec, but it came out in a big clump like molasses. (Cold in the garage). any help GREATLY appreciated.

[newbievueowner]

So i am stupid.:dizzy: i don't know if i just missed it or was in a hurry. i was trying to drain the tranny fluid, missed the tranny all together. Think i drained a little TC fluid. My question is what kind of fluid is in the TC and is it alright to drain and replace the fluid? i would rather do this than try and guess how much drained. the plug was only off for a sec, but it came out in a big clump like molasses. (Cold in the garage). any help GREATLY appreciated.

If your's has the Honda engine (04/5/6/7) then the TC fluid is just GL5 synthetic gear lube.

[beautifulbluvue]

Thanks for the help. i will have to get some after work today. do you know the capacity by chance? thanks again

[beautifulbluvue]

So i called the dealer today to get capacity for the TC. they tell me that the transmission fluid is a VTI fluid. even in the V6. WTH?? do i use the Z1 or this VTI?

[far2grumpy]

05 Vue 3.5 V6 AWD owners manual lubricant usage chart:

Transfer Case fluid type = Synthetic Axle Lubricant (GM Part No. U.S. 12378261, in Canada 10953455)... (noted on Internet as 75W-90 synthetic gear lube).

Exact quantity appears to be well kept secret but you can start with one quart and fill until it runs down your arm.

05 V-6 uses ATF-Z1 ... change dealers if possible ... or wait a few months and they'll most likely be speaking either Chinese or Indian (as in Mumbai).

[beautifulbluvue]

Well i changed the tranny and TC fluid. transmission fluid was a very dark red. didn't smell burnt. magnet on drain plug was black as can be. Transmission seems to shift better. rpm still dances but doesn't seem to be as bad. Seems to hold in gear a little longer. not going into over drive as soon. i think this is better was wondering if any one else noticed this after changing fluid. Thanks again to everyone. ya'll know your stuff.:):usa::)

[beautifulbluvue]

Alright drove the vue to work today (25 miles highway). still has the rev problem. if it is better it isn't by much. has any one else done the drain and fill on the tranny and still had this problem? Is it possible it could be a speed sensor? how hard is it to replace/ trouble shoot? thanks

[Bismarck318]

I'm taking that the Honda powertrain is not compatible with Dexron Or Mercuron? I have always used Mobil 1 Synthetic in my other vehicles when doing changes.

This a difficult task doing this change (dropping the pan & replacing filter?)

[far2grumpy]

Use anything other than ATF-Z1 and Saturn (Honda) promises the world will end as you know it.

The trans-mixer is put together like Swiss watch ... two halves bolted as one with no pan to remove or accessible filter to change.

You pull the plug out of bottom (side) to drain and there's a nice fill port on top (easy to see / access after pulling the air intake tube).

There's many excellent fluid change versions posted so do a search and pick the one you like. I can forward the service manual version if you'll send email by PM.

[chillin05VUE]

I always thought that Honda had their own tranny fuild. If so, that means that GM fluid won't work good or at all with Honda tranny. Am I wrong?

Also, just wondering if maybe it could be the VTEC system kicking in.

[far2grumpy]

Well ... the recommended fluid is ATF-Z1 ... in my hometown you can buy at Honda dealer for around 9.75 per quart, or you can buy at Saturn dealer for 7.50 per quart (marked GM ATF-Z1), and I recently learned you can buy an equivalent blend from Castrol for about 4.50 per quart.

The thing to remember is the type number is supposed to be Z1.

[beautifulbluvue]

Alright i did the tranny drain and fill. still the same problem. engine revs with steady throttle between 30 and 50 mph. is there any fear of permenant damage (i.e. transmission faliure) if not attended to right away? can i let this go for a while till i can find a dealer i can trust. dealer i called said i have a vti tranny. thanks

[far2grumpy]

beautifulblevue ... your original post says you have 2005 V6 AWD ... if you passed same information to the Saturn dealer and they say you have vti transmission you need to make sure to never return to that dealer ... ever ... not even to use the restroom.

[beautifulbluvue]

beautifulblevue ... your original post says you have 2005 V6 AWD ... if you passed same information to the Saturn dealer and they say you have vti transmission you need to make sure to never return to that dealer ... ever ... not even to use the restroom.



Exactally what i am trying to do. but there are not many option in this area (eastern South Dakota). my wife drove the vue in to town this morning and said it has gotten worse. she says the rpm almost cuts off completly. down below 1000 and then goes back up. i am at a loss. :ugh:

[far2grumpy]

Also, just wondering if maybe it could be the VTEC system kicking in.

According to FSM the 3.5 V6 ECM engages variable valve timing ... using cam high-lift lobe to increase intake valve open time for more horsepower ... between 4,400 and 6,500 RPM. I know my Vue slammed me back in the seat the one or two times I've pushed the engine into this rpm range. Would it cause the engine to surge at lower RPM ... ???

beautifulbluvue ... (1) do you have any check engine lights, (2) have you visually inspected all accessible vacuum lines, (3) have you tried disconnecting the battery ground cable for 5 or 10 minutes to reset control module logic, and (4) have you read the earlier pdf attachment regarding possible causes for engine surge?

[burnout]

I'm surprised nobody has said torque converter failure yet.

I doubt it's intake/air related. The idle would be crazy if it was, not just when they're driving at 30-50mph.

This sounds like a torque converter lockup problem, which is turning out to be fairly common on the V6's recently.

[beautifulbluvue]

This is what i am worried about. is there any way to trouble shoot down to the Torque Converter??? thanks

[Dante]

I'm surprised nobody has said torque converter failure yet.

I doubt it's intake/air related. The idle would be crazy if it was, not just when they're driving at 30-50mph.

This sounds like a torque converter lockup problem, which is turning out to be fairly common on the V6's recently.

Bingo... that's my guess too. If you've cleaned/replaced your air filter and cleaned the air intake, changed the tranny fluid with fresh Honda Z1, and it's still surging, sounds like torque converter. It is POSSIBLE but unlikely that your rear differential is partially locking up and causing drag, but that would probably feel differently, like there was a real strong gust of wind suddenly slowing you down.

[beautifulbluvue]

Bingo... that's my guess too. If you've cleaned/replaced your air filter and cleaned the air intake, changed the tranny fluid with fresh Honda Z1, and it's still surging, sounds like torque converter. It is POSSIBLE but unlikely that your rear differential is partially locking up and causing drag, but that would probably feel differently, like there was a real strong gust of wind suddenly slowing you down.

Yep have done all the above. Not the rear diff. it doesn't feel like that at all. was wondering if (since i don't trust my dealer anymore) i could possible take it to local honda dealer for this. i have no warrenty so that isn't a concern. i'll try calling them and seeing what they have to say. thanks all

[steveboy]

I have a 2004 3.5 fwd........Had same problem. Did everything you did.
Changed trans fluid to synthetic trans fluid, fixed. End of story.

[MrHorspwer]

she says the rpm almost cuts off completly. down below 1000 and then goes back up. i am at a loss.

This statement makes me really want to begin looking into engine control driveabilitiy concerns along with a trans concern.

Near stalling and heavy surging at speed can be many different problems, many of which are not typically concerns associated with a trans. Yes, we all know about the light surging associated with the Honda trans and it's lock-up characteristics with old fluid. This is why everybody recommended this as your first step; it does fix alot of concerns. It sounds like you're having some pretty heavy surging though, beyond what most of us have experienced.

Really, you need to get a scan tool in the vehicle and go for a drive. Look at what the engine and trans are doing when the problem occurs. Personally, I'd be particularly interested in what the MAP sensor and APP sensor are showing. Anyhow, at this point I don't think you're going to figure anything out without jumping into a deep diagnostic.

If you still think it's TCC related, try lightly apply the brakes when the problem occurs while still maintaining your speed. This should immediatly disengage the TCC. If your problem goes away, well, you may have gotten somewhere.