Stupid Edmunds article

[marx404]

If you want to read a badly written and possibly plagiarized Astra article that will make you both mad and confused at the same time, no need to go further than Edmunds.com who just published their online report on the yet to be released 2009 Astra.

According to the author, the ION was just replaced in 2009 by the Astra. (wtf?)
There is no review of the 2008 model, the link only shows a picture of a 4 door.

According to the tester, the Astra is no fun to drive, the shifter in-precise and the XR, repeat, the XR has LOTS OF "BODY ROLL "!!!!! Where in the Frell did these idiots test this car?

Oh and Astras start out at $20,000 too. (a bit outdated?) according to her. Actually only about half of what I read is correct and that half looks like it was ripped straight out of the Motortrends article for the 2008!

Please read this article, have a good chuckle, then leave a comment to correct this wrong doing. What a horribly written sloppy article.

http://www.edmunds.com/saturn/astra/2009/testdrive.html

[Robor007]

That is one of the worst reviews I've ever read. For whatever reason it appears as though it was written with bias against the Astra. I'm not going to spend a lot of time picking it apart because everyone who owns an Astra knows it's inaccurate. I wonder if they even drove it? One thing I found odd is in the body of the article it states 'reasonable fuel economy' but lists 'respectable fuel economy' as one of the Pros. Poorly reviewed and poorly written.

[BobbyP]

Maybe you're a bit too close to the Astra to be subjective?

Other than not posturing the 2008 and 2009 models and improperly referring that the ION was replaced by the 2009 model the article was accurate.

Everything the author complained about was legitimate shortcomings of the Astra when compared to the top rated cars in it's segment. He also praised the Astra's positive attributes.

Reviews would be useless if they did not alert potential buyers of any cars weakness.

[marx404]

Maybe you're a bit too close to the Astra to be subjective?
Other than not posturing the 2008 and 2009 models and improperly referring that the ION was replaced by the 2009 model the article was accurate.
Everything the author complained about was legitimate shortcomings of the Astra when compared to the top rated cars in it's segment. He also praised the Astra's positive attributes. Reviews would be useless if they did not alert potential buyers of any cars weakness.

Maybe you didn't notice that "he" was actually a "she", not that it's important. Nonetheless, it is one of the most biased and inaccurate articles I have seen. Perhaps being "too close" entails knowing this car top to bottom as well as reading actual accurate and TIMELY reviews?

So can anybody explain the "body roll" complaint? That one has my head spinning. Reviews are equally ineffective when the complaints are not merited.

Like I said, if you disagree, please go to the site and reply with your thoughts.

[Germane German]

Experts say that most complaints about bias have more to say about where the complainer stands than the media does, Faux News of course is the exception that proves the rule - ;>). I thought it was interesting that their picture of a '2009' Astra is a file photo (that is available at this site and has been for some time) probably partly because the 2009s are still in Europe if they have even made any yet? That along with the Ion replacement stuff made it almost like they just changed 2008 references to 2009 in a review they already had in the can and went with it for 'filler'? Supposedly about 10,000 2008 Astras have been sold, an interesting comparison number might be how many remain unsold, that might be the number that is a 'tell' for when/if there ever will be any actual stateside 2009s to review? To me that is the biggest journalistic flaw of the article -- it might as well be a review of the new double-saddle unicorn, what is being reviewed doesn't exist, not yet anyway.

[BobbyP]

Damn... Sorry for not properly noting the sex of the author.

It's the same old battle Saturn owners always have fought. We love our cars and are too connected to them to objectively criticize them.

The perfect car will never be built, and every car can be criticized. Almost every review about the Astra has complained over the very same items that this article did.

Cold hard fact is the Astra caters to a small group of Americans that want a small European car.

[bryanm326]

Written by a chick? Sorry don't mean to be chauvinist

[BNM449]

In my profession we have a criteria that a product has to be "fit for the purpose for which it's intended".

I read a review where another author said " The success or failure of the Astra will be determined not by enthusiasts in chat rooms, but by the average buyer who wants a $17,000 car to drive to work every day".

THAT is " the purpose for which it's intended".
This is the kind of car over 500,000 Europeans get in every day and drive to work, that's what it was made for.

Any reviewer who knocks the Astra, or any other car, by missing the point of the vehicle, is doing everyone a disservice.
Including themselves.

So, just feel sorry for all the people who will read that posted review and never take a test-drive.

Take comfort in the fact that " not everybody on the road is going to be driving one"! Smile smugly and drive on! :)

~N~

[Germane German]

Photo posted on 2-03-07 here:

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php/photo/35554

Do I have a 2009 Saturn Astra? ;>)

[unkle bik]

So, just feel sorry for all the people who will read that posted review and never take a test-drive.


~N~

You just gotta wonder about dorks like that...:xeye:

[wandern]

Maybe you're a bit too close to the Astra to be subjective?

This article suffers from the same type of bias that is overwhelmingly applied to GM (and domestic cars in general). A quick look over another review by the same woman immediately exposes an almost complete lack of impartiality or even good testing.

The most astonishing thing is the bias or spin applied to nearly every aspect of the cars, to diminish or justify negatives (on the Civic) or usually the opposite for the Astra.

Here are two recent reviews:
Astra: http://www.edmunds.com/saturn/astra/2009/testdrive.html

Civic: http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2008/testdrive.html

Here are some excerpts:

Astra:
Brakes were average; our three-door stopped from 60 mph in 126 feet.

Average pedal feel and response. Stopping distance nothing special.

Civic:
Braking, while mostly on par with the class and price point, leaves a little to be desired. We found significant ABS noise and shudder during the braking test, especially up front. The Civic also has a tendency to wander slightly under full braking.

These aren't issues that will likely come up during less stressful driving, of course, and it was here that the Civic shines.

braking, 60 - 0 (ft): 128


Astra:
However, Saturn has tuned the Astra to maximize mpg, which, while a commendable goal, comes at the expense of performance. Even though the engine's specs are competitive, the engine feels sluggish off the line, and tall gear ratios make the hatch feel gutless. Heaven forbid you find yourself changing lanes in front of a car that's going faster than you expected; you just might find yourself on the receiving end of some less-than-friendly hand gestures. Then again, you might not notice, since you'll be uttering your own expletives as you stand on the throttle wondering why nothing's happening.

On the track, our 2009 Saturn Astra Coupe didn't break any records. It made it from zero to 60 mph in an underwhelming 8.9 seconds and reached the quarter-mile in 16.6 seconds at 83.9 mph.
0 - 60 (sec): 8.9
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.6 @ 83.9


Civic:
Don't think of using the Honda Civic LX as a getaway car — it isn't going to blow the doors off any highway patrol vehicles. But the 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine, which makes 140 horsepower and 128 pound-feet of torque, still has plenty of power for just about any other situation. Our five-speed automatic-equipped Civic accelerated from zero to 60 mph in 9.6 seconds, which is quite respectable for a small sedan; for comparison, a Mazda Mazda3 with the 2.0-liter engine we recently tested got to 60 mph in 9.8 seconds.
0 - 60 (sec): 9.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 17.1 @ 80.37


Astra:
Handlingwise, the XR coupe is able, although calling it "fun" might be an overstatement. The steering is quick and agile, and despite some body roll around corners, the Astra is stable and easy to drive.

Another fun-looking car that understeers its way to a decent skid pad number. Lots of body roll but even more stability in slalom. Easy to drive and fairly confident here, but not even close to fun.


Civic:
Good steering feel and loading on skid pad, but tires aren't very grippy. The nose feels more softly spring than the back which produces some steering delay. Chassis feels more capable than the tires.

The steering is accurate and the handling, though modest in terms of absolute limits, is sporty enough to make the car fun to drive on twisty roads.


Astra:
MSRP: $18,375
At a base price of $19,545 before the destination charge, the 2009 Saturn Astra XR coupe starts at nearly $3,000 more than its closest rival...
Traction Control: Standard
Stability Control: Standard

Civic:
Base MSRP: $17,760
Traction Control: Not available
Stability Control: Not available
Steel wheels
rear drum brakes

and the list goes on...

[OPEL Blitz]

I didnt find anything particulary annoying in that article. The Golf she compared with has multi-link rear suspension and it generally has less body roll than a torsion beam suspension. I did find it amusing that she prioritized the cupholder before the most important drawback, the location of the HVAC controls. Cupholders :D

I'm suprised the Astra is more expensive than a Golf. The whole idea of it to begin with is to be a slightly bigger but less expensive clone of a Golf.

[BobbyP]

In my profession we have a criteria that a product has to be "fit for the purpose for which it's intended".

I read a review where another author said " The success or failure of the Astra will be determined not by enthusiasts in chat rooms, but by the average buyer who wants a $17,000 car to drive to work every day".

THAT is " the purpose for which it's intended".
This is the kind of car over 500,000 Europeans get in every day and drive to work, that's what it was made for.

Any reviewer who knocks the Astra, or any other car, by missing the point of the vehicle, is doing everyone a disservice.
Including themselves.

So, just feel sorry for all the people who will read that posted review and never take a test-drive.

Take comfort in the fact that " not everybody on the road is going to be driving one"! Smile smugly and drive on! :)

~N~

I drove a 2008 Astra when it came out. I've driven every Saturn except the EV1.

The Astra is an European car sold in America. The sales reflect the fact that it doesn't appeal for most Americans. They are buying other cars.

If the Astra was sold by SAAB, the media would overlook the many of the European design elements that have been so heavily criticized. The Astra is out of place being sold by Saturn.

Unfortunately Saturn's identity continues to be in flux. No one knows what they will sell next, or if the nameplate will survive.

Initially I thought it was a good idea selling Opel products, but the Astra sales showed there isn't enough of a market for the Saturn network to survive doing this.

[Robor007]

Maybe you're a bit too close to the Astra to be subjective?

Other than not posturing the 2008 and 2009 models and improperly referring that the ION was replaced by the 2009 model the article was accurate.

Everything the author complained about was legitimate shortcomings of the Astra when compared to the top rated cars in it's segment. He also praised the Astra's positive attributes.

Reviews would be useless if they did not alert potential buyers of any cars weakness.

Too close to be subjective? Not at all. The Astra has plenty of flaws but IMO the reviewer who wrote that article did a poor job in identifying them and was completely wrong in some of her criticism.

Her cons... Power not on tap, expensive for it's class, and interior design/layout flaws.

The Astra has a great balance of power and economy. Show me a more powerful car that's not a roller skate (Cooper) and gets better gas mileage and I'll agree. As far as price goes the Astra may not be 'cheap' but other models either don't offer options the Astra has or they cost extra bringing them up into the same price range. I'll admit the controls could be laid out better but once you learn the 'BC' it's not that difficult.

You want flaws? Here some I didn't see mentioned... :)

1. Blind spots - they're *huge* on the 2 door. Yeah the back window is small but at least you can see out it clearly. The rear pillars are way too thick and block vision badly - number 1 flaw IMO.

2. Speaking of huge, the rearview. It's too big. Get the worthless OnStar controls off there and do the same with the annoying amber passenger air bag display.

3. Speaking of huge II, the doors on the 2 door. They're really long. Gotta be careful opening them in parking spots.

4. The 5 speed should be a 6 speed.

5. No option for HID/Xenon. I'd pay $500 for this.

6. No option for moon roof on 2 door and the 4 door moon roof 'shade' lets too much sun through. I wouldn't want one for free.

7. Premium stereo reception is poor and audio quality is average at best. A useless 7th speaker in the dash but no component speakers in the rear? Come on.

8. Lack of gauges - coolant temp and oil pressure should be there at minimum.

9. No dead pedal. Not a big deal around town but on long trips it would be nice.

10. Seats on the 2 door are a PITA to lean up and back into original position.

11. The already mentioned ugly amber LCD display is too small.

12. No 'mute' or 'lower volume x %' or 'pause' buttons (not that I've found anyway).

13. BC defaults to main screen. If I turn it to BC2, I want it on BC2 next time I start the car. Again, not a big deal but inconvenient.

I can probably think of more but I think that's plenty to let you know I can be subjective in my criticism of the authors review. ;)

**Edit: Excellent comparison, wandern! :D

[s4turngolf3r]

I think when people get in an Astra they subconsciously feel that the car should handle like a sports car 10 grand more. They fail to see the fact that its a capable economy car, and this goes for automotive writers as well. For some reason they see the Astra as a pure bred sports car and not a runabout, which sets their standards very high, and thus blinds them. For the price they go for now, and after researching the competition, it is by far and away the best deal if a person is looking for a small compact car.

[BobbyP]

Unfortunately I agree with her cons considering the price of the Astra.

I personally don't like the center console layout and design, I expected more power, and was disappointed in the price were originally asking. With the current incentives the Astra is competitive.

If someone wrote a review with all the negatives you mentioned they would be ran out of town... :)

Any time you get too far off the beaten path sales will suffer. The Astra will never generate significant sales in the US.

[saturn_69]

I drove a 2008 Astra when it came out. I've driven every Saturn except the EV1. Well that's good since the EV1 wasn't a Saturn.

The Astra is an European car sold in America. The sales reflect the fact that it doesn't appeal for most Americans. They are buying other cars.No, the sales reflect a car that is imported in small numbers and isn't advertised.

If the Astra was sold by SAAB, the media would overlook the many of the European design elements that have been so heavily criticized. The Astra is out of place being sold by Saturn. True on the Saab bit, not so much on the out of place bit.

[BobbyP]

Well that's good since the EV1 wasn't a Saturn.

No, the sales reflect a car that is imported in small numbers and isn't advertised.

True on the Saab bit, not so much on the out of place bit.

It all boils down to a matter of opinion... :)

[saturn_69]

Unfortunately I agree with her cons considering the price of the Astra.

I personally don't like the center console layout and design, I expected more power, and was disappointed in the price were originally asking. With the current incentives the Astra is competitive.

If someone wrote a review with all the negatives you mentioned they would be ran out of town... :)

Any time you get too far off the beaten path sales will suffer. The Astra will never generate significant sales in the US.
Considering the price of the Astra is about what a loaded S-series or Ion went for, I don't think it's too far out of line...especially when you consider the standard features it has that weren't even available on the S-series or Ion. I think the Astra gets a bum rap. Perpetuating the myth that it's expensive doesn't help.

[saturn_69]

This article suffers from the same type of bias that is overwhelmingly applied to GM (and domestic cars in general). A quick look over another review by the same woman immediately exposes an almost complete lack of impartiality or even good testing.

The most astonishing thing is the bias or spin applied to nearly every aspect of the cars, to diminish or justify negatives (on the Civic) or usually the opposite for the Astra.

Here are two recent reviews:
Astra: http://www.edmunds.com/saturn/astra/2009/testdrive.html

Civic: http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2008/testdrive.html

Here are some excerpts:

Astra:


Civic:



Astra:

0 - 60 (sec): 8.9
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.6 @ 83.9


Civic:

0 - 60 (sec): 9.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 17.1 @ 80.37


Astra:



Civic:


Astra:
MSRP: $18,375

Traction Control: Standard
Stability Control: Standard

Civic:
Base MSRP: $17,760
Traction Control: Not available
Stability Control: Not available
Steel wheels
rear drum brakes

and the list goes on...Hey now, don't let facts stand in the way of bias and Astra-hate! We don't need no stinking facts. :D Edmunds sucks butt.

[mr weather]

Yep. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

[BobbyP]

Considering the price of the Astra is about what a loaded S-series or Ion went for, I don't think it's too far out of line...especially when you consider the standard features it has that weren't even available on the S-series or Ion. I think the Astra gets a bum rap. Perpetuating the myth that it's expensive doesn't help.

Over the past 10 years cars have gone down in price along with increased content since the s-series days...

I did pay over $15k in 1992 for my SC. :| I paid over $26k for the 2006 VUE.

[saturn_69]

Over the past 10 years cars have gone down in price along with increased content since the s-series days...

I did pay over $15k in 1992 for my SC. :| I paid over $26k for the 2006 VUE.

I paid $18K ( actually $17,845 or the base price of an Astra XR 5-door) for my well-equipped '02 SL2...and it didn't have rear disc brakes, stability control, auto headlights, side curtain airbags, thorax airbags, a glove box light or Rainsense wipers. I have the window sticker for my '95 SC2 as well, and it was $17,225...in 1995...or, roughly the cost of the Astra XE 5-door with A/C.

How again is the Astra too expensive?

[jon_e_quest]

Edmunds does seem a bit wreckless with respect to impartiality. For example, they complain that the car is expensive for it's class, but at the bottom of the review they suggest readers take a look at the Civic Si (starting from $21,805) and the Mini Cooper (starting from $18,550). The other cars, Rabbit and Scion xD are less money, which puts Astra right in the middle. And the other cars lack many of Astra's standard features. I don't get them.

BTW, I submitted a Consumer Review of my Astra on the Edmunds site several weeks ago, but they still haven't posted it. The newest review (which is the same 'newest review' listed when I submitted mine) is dated 12.4.08. Obviously, they're not interested in what the actual car owners have to say. You know... the people who have spent more than four hours with the car.

[cdp326]

This article suffers from the same type of bias that is overwhelmingly applied to GM (and domestic cars in general). A quick look over another review by the same woman immediately exposes an almost complete lack of impartiality or even good testing.

The most astonishing thing is the bias or spin applied to nearly every aspect of the cars, to diminish or justify negatives (on the Civic) or usually the opposite for the Astra.

Here are two recent reviews:
Astra: http://www.edmunds.com/saturn/astra/2009/testdrive.html

Civic: http://www.edmunds.com/honda/civic/2008/testdrive.html

Here are some excerpts:

Astra:


Civic:



Astra:

0 - 60 (sec): 8.9
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 16.6 @ 83.9


Civic:

0 - 60 (sec): 9.6
1/4 Mile (sec @ mph): 17.1 @ 80.37


Astra:



Civic:


Astra:
MSRP: $18,375

Traction Control: Standard
Stability Control: Standard

Civic:
Base MSRP: $17,760
Traction Control: Not available
Stability Control: Not available
Steel wheels
rear drum brakes

and the list goes on...

Well, take note that they say that the Civic they tested had a five-speed automatic. The Astra had a five-speed manual. Given manual shift cars usually feel more responsive and perform better in tests, there are probably different standards.

[marx404]

Wandern, very good notes and actually seems that Edumbs almost contradicts itself with it's own numbers.

In contrast, 8.9sec isn't really a bad number for this 1.8L.

BobbyP Cold hard fact is the Astra caters to a small group of Americans that want a small European car

Cold hard facts are that GM totally missed the mark here in America properly marketing and pricing this car. This IS a GM car, right? and North America is problably the last continent to get the Astra, where as the Astra has enjoyed great popularity all over the world, so wherein lies the fault? Not in the car, no sir.

If properly marketed, "that small group of Americans that want a small European car" would be on Saturn lots comparing the Astra to Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, Chevy Aveo, Suzuki Forenza, cars that really costwise compete in it's class but GM failed to target in it's competetive class comparisons. (Get yer old training brochure, these are all missing). Not Rabbits and Mazda 3s.

Plain and simple, the Astra for what it is is a great International car that GM North America and Saturn failed to market.

[BobbyP]

Wandern, very good notes and actually seems that Edumbs almost contradicts itself with it's own numbers.

In contrast, 8.9sec isn't really a bad number for this 1.8L.

BobbyP

Cold hard facts are that GM totally missed the mark here in America properly marketing and pricing this car. This IS a GM car, right? and North America is problably the last continent to get the Astra, where as the Astra has enjoyed great popularity all over the world, so wherein lies the fault? Not in the car, no sir.

If properly marketed, "that small group of Americans that want a small European car" would be on Saturn lots comparing the Astra to Toyota Yaris, Honda Fit, Chevy Aveo, Suzuki Forenza, cars that really costwise compete in it's class but GM failed to target in it's competetive class comparisons. (Get yer old training brochure, these are all missing). Not Rabbits and Mazda 3s.

Plain and simple, the Astra for what it is is a great International car that GM North America and Saturn failed to market.

Just because GM owns Opel, doesn't make the Astra an American car. GM bragged about the fact it's an European car in their advertisement. Because of the currency exchange rates the Astra or any Opel can not be competitive. Americans don't want a GM European car.

Stop blaming Saturn and GM for improper marketing, the car is the heart of the problem. I saw plenty of advertising. No amount of money will make the Astra a top selling car in the US.

Talk to anyone in Europe and they'll tell you that Opels aren't known as excellent automobiles. They're much like Chevrolet is here in the US. A working mans car.

In the US with excellent cars like the Civic, Corolla, and Mazda 3; the Astra did not have a chance. Between the Civic, Corolla, and CR-V they accounted for almost 900,000 in sales and 3 spots in the top 10 selling cars in 2008.

[cdp326]

Stop blaming Saturn and GM for improper marketing, the car is the heart of the problem. I saw plenty of advertising. No amount of money will make the Astra a top selling car in the US.
Where?
There's not as little advertising as some make it out to be, but they really have not marketed the Astra very well.

Talk to anyone in Europe and they'll tell you that Opels aren't known as excellent automobiles. They're much like Chevrolet is here in the US. A working mans car.
Anyone?
The Astra has ranked in the best selling cars in Europe for several years now, IIRC. I believe it was the best selling car in Europe in 2006.
Opel had a stodgy image (at least with the press) in Europe for some time, for cars that weren't very interesting overall. (At least, this is the image I perceived in issues of CAR and Top Gear magazines.) Vehicles like the current Astra helped a lot to improve the image.
Working mans car doesn't really narrow anything down...wouldn't a Toyota be a working mans car? Toyota has a great image here, and they make good cars for everyone. They're not very interesting cars, but they're good cars.

I think the real issue is that the Astra is priced high, or at least doesn't stand out there. The Astra is pretty much comparably priced to other small cars, but then it just gets lost in the crowd. It's not priced poorly, just not priced well.

[marx404]

Just because GM owns Opel, doesn't make the Astra an American car. GM bragged about the fact it's an European car in their advertisement. Because of the currency exchange rates the Astra or any Opel can not be competitive. Americans don't want a GM European car.

Stop blaming Saturn and GM for improper marketing, the car is the heart of the problem. I saw plenty of advertising. No amount of money will make the Astra a top selling car in the US.

Talk to anyone in Europe and they'll tell you that Opels aren't known as excellent automobiles. They're much like Chevrolet is here in the US. A working mans car.

In the US with excellent cars like the Civic, Corolla, and Mazda 3; the Astra did not have a chance. Between the Civic, Corolla, and CR-V they accounted for almost 900,000 in sales and 3 spots in the top 10 selling cars in 2008.



Now this sounds like typical boardroom corporate-banter and is starting to look like Saturn bashing ... ;-)

SO WHO said that GM says the Astra is an American car? where'd you get that idea?

WHERE have you seen "plenty of advertising"? Brochures in the showroom? A TV commercial spot where they show the left hand corner of the car and nothing more? A MotorTrend ad in the ads section? Get real, there has been NO REAL advertisement for the Astra.

Growing up in Miami, I have had PLENTY of opportunity to grow up around Europeans and yes, the Opel is like Chevrolet in Europe, most who grew up there had Opels and loved them as we do our Chevys and Saturns. Your point is?

Numbers, numbers, we arent talking numbers here, friend. We are talking that GM and Saturn has never PROPERLY marketed this car. So its kinda a dumb statement to say "No amount of money will make the Astra a top selling car in the US". Nobody said it would be, it has been neglected as most of Saturns products by GM's marketing dept.

Spending over 10 years in Marketing myself, I can tell you one thing that in indisputeable: If nobody knows about it, nobody will buy it.

Plain and simple and you can argue and bash (and throw around all the stats you want) all you want. If the Astra was handled properly it would be MORE SUCCESSFUL than it is.

Anyways, my OP was about the Edmunds article and how poorly it was written, how in the hvll did you turn it into this stupid discussion?

[OPEL Blitz]

I cant relate to Chevy as the Chevrolets we get here are Daewoos and are generally classified as the worst cars on the market, if better than Russian* and Chinese cars, but I can agree with both of you in different ways. They are working mans cars true, and no I wouldnt call them "excellent" because I would reserve that judgement for cars higher up the price ladder. I think a better superlative is "good".

Opel make affordable cars. Their competitors are VW, Seat, Skoda, Ford, Fiat, Renault, Peugeot, Citroën, Kia, Hyundai, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Toyota and Honda. They do not compete with Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Lexus etc because that is not their role and the pricetag is considerably less.

Opel are hard at work at convincing the public that they are no longer boring. The Astra, Corsa and new Insignia, as well as an increased presence in TV and newspaper ads seem to finally bring results. But still, if you compare apples and oranges an Opel is really boring compared to an Alfa which if you've ever sat in one you know that it's not an engine under the hood, it's soul and passion.

An Opel is pretty much guaranteed to come with more extras at the same price as the equivalent VW and a lower maintenance bill, be more reliable than a Peugeot, have less bits fall off than a Fiat, carry more load than a Ford, have better corrosion protection than a Honda and more legroom than a Toyota. It's a car for people who need a car. The great successes have shown that for many people and corporations, the Astra is a car that fits the bill. Just as the Focus and the Golf. It's averageness is what makes it such a big hit.


* Actually I think a Lada is far more reliable than a Chevrolet. Especially if you find yourself in siberia and want to start your car without starting a small fire beneath it to thaw the engine first.

[Robor007]

Edmunds does seem a bit wreckless with respect to impartiality. For example, they complain that the car is expensive for it's class, but at the bottom of the review they suggest readers take a look at the Civic Si (starting from $21,805) and the Mini Cooper (starting from $18,550). The other cars, Rabbit and Scion xD are less money, which puts Astra right in the middle. And the other cars lack many of Astra's standard features. I don't get them.

BTW, I submitted a Consumer Review of my Astra on the Edmunds site several weeks ago, but they still haven't posted it. The newest review (which is the same 'newest review' listed when I submitted mine) is dated 12.4.08. Obviously, they're not interested in what the actual car owners have to say. You know... the people who have spent more than four hours with the car.

This is so true. I did a lot of research before going to look and drive. The Honda Fit was highly rated by all of the 'experts' and even though I didn't like the looks of it I figured if it was comfortable and fun to drive that would make up for it. Based on the so-so reviews of the Astra it was barely on my radar. In person the Fit disappointed and the Astra shined. IMO the Astra is a 'drivers econobox' and the positive user reviews pretty much confirm that.

[Robor007]

Stop blaming Saturn and GM for improper marketing, the car is the heart of the problem. I saw plenty of advertising. No amount of money will make the Astra a top selling car in the US.

(snipped to reply just to that comment)

Huh? Where did you see the *Astra* being marketed? I've seen Saturn commercials but never seen a commercial or ad for an Astra. How unknown is the Astra? The salesman I talked to at the Honda dealership had never heard of it. That should tell you something.

[Suns_PSD]

The Domestic auto manufacturers due a terrible job of selling their autos. It's a shame really as I have driven and owned most of the modern cars out there and it's clear to me that the Domestics actually have a BETTER product now than the Japs. Really it's not even close.

The biggest problem is the image of value and the way they price there vehicles. They have so much margin in them that they sit and sit. No one wants to buy a vehicle at full price and then see it discounted $20K (actually happened w/ diesel pick ups!) to the next guy killing your resale value.

They need to price their vehicles very skinny and keep the iron moving w/ little to no discounts which is how the Japs and Germans do it. Advertise a LOT. And move the iron. You don't ever want inventory to get stale like it does on the Domestic lots. The service, parts, and additional volume will bring the Domestics back and they will slowly be able to creap the margin up.

[davidsky]

Review seems fair enough, the whiners just pick out all the "bad" parts and don't mention the good ones.

[Robor007]

Review seems fair enough, the whiners just pick out all the "bad" parts and don't mention the good ones.

I have no problem with pointing out flaws. Some she noted and some she missed. It's the inaccuracies or bias I have a problem with. As wandern pointed out, the Civic was praised for stats where the Astra was criticized.

Handlingwise, the XR coupe is able, although calling it "fun" might be an overstatement. The steering is quick and agile, and despite some body roll around corners, the Astra is stable and easy to drive.

Through the slalom, the Astra's average speed was 66.4 mph. We felt quite a bit of body roll

our combined observed fuel economy for the Astra coupe was only 22 mpg

The Astra handles *far* better than any of the cars I test drove. If they think the Astra has a lot of body roll I'd hate to see them *honestly* review the Corolla, Civic, Fit, Versa, Accent, xD, etc. And how did they get only 22mpg? I'm getting 29-30 mpg out of mine in mixed driving (no A/C tho).

[captainzerocool]

Faux News of course...


Bias much?

[RoxyXR3]

Nothing new . Just another biased opinion by someone who doesn't know what he was talking about . :D

[OPEL Blitz]

I'm here to bring the lighten up the party! With a video-review that we all can agree on!

Astra
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=644&P=WM&SP=FAST


And lets add in it's competitors too
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=692&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^ haha you cant buy that :p

Golf V
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=627&P=WM&SP=FAST

cee´d
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=2688&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^ no you cant buy that either :p

[OPEL Blitz]

I'm gonna go on a bit about the Astras competitors as I seem to have nothing useful to do today anyway so I've sort of stuck to Whatcar.

Now a TOYOTA must be better than a GM-thingy right? Remember the Astra got 4 stars.

Toyota Auris (3 stars)
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=2697&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^
Oh and as usual you cant buy it :p

C4 (3 stars)
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=687&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^
Goes without saying

A DODGE! (2 stars)
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=846&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^
YOU CAN BUY THIS!

Fiat Bravo (3 stars)
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=2706&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^
Nooooo

Honda Civic (3 stars)
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=747&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^
:p

Hyundai i30 (3 stars)
http://www.whatcar.co.uk/car-review-video-alt.aspx?RT=2759&P=WM&SP=FAST
^^
You will be able to buy this in wagon form this year!

I also made a small footnote that the narrator never mentions the word "cupholders" in any of the videos above.

[Robor007]

Bias much?

I don't mean to derail the thread but you picked an odd subject to ruffle your feathers over. Fox News is biased. Saying they aren't is like saying The Daily Show and Colbert Report are serious 'fair and balanced' news shows. :D

[davidsky]

Laura Burstein (http://www.lauraburstein.com/)

[marx404]

Thank You Opel Blitz! Very useful information.

[Robor007]

Laura Burstein (http://www.lauraburstein.com/)

If I say what I was thinking I'd get flamed. All I'll say is she's attractive. ;)

[Germane German]

Bias much?

http://people-press.org/report/319/public-knowledge-of-current-affairs-little-changed-by-news-and-information-revolutions

"Public Knowledge of Current Affairs Little Changed by News and Information Revolutions"

I'm not saying I disagree or agree with the Pew Research Center's results, I'm just putting them up. Please especially note the "Knowledge Levels by News Source" box with the highest scores for "Major newspaper websites" and "Daily Show/Colbert Report" (Comedy Channel!) at 54% each AND the lowest scores (least knowledgeable) being "Fox News Channel" and "Network morning shows" at 35% and 34 % respectively.

[Articwhite2008]

That is one of the worst reviews I've ever read. For whatever reason it appears as though it was written with bias against the Astra. I'm not going to spend a lot of time picking it apart because everyone who owns an Astra knows it's inaccurate. I wonder if they even drove it? One thing I found odd is in the body of the article it states 'reasonable fuel economy' but lists 'respectable fuel economy' as one of the Pros. Poorly reviewed and poorly written.

The car does have some body roll... thats y im dropping it an inch all around. Fuel is also not THAT GREAT. A 2000 Civic gets better mpg than an Astra. The Astra is slow, the gear box SUCKS "i would know cause ive driven everything from a 08 civic si to 09 g37 and the astras gear box feels the same as the Chevy Cobalts Base Model gearbox, slow and clunky.

[Robor007]

The car does have some body roll... thats y im dropping it an inch all around. Fuel is also not THAT GREAT. A 2000 Civic gets better mpg than an Astra. The Astra is slow, the gear box SUCKS "i would know cause ive driven everything from a 08 civic si to 09 g37 and the astras gear box feels the same as the Chevy Cobalts Base Model gearbox, slow and clunky.

All cars have 'some' body roll - my friend dropped his G35 coupe because it has 'some' body roll. The point is does it have more body roll than other cars in the same class? Based on my test drives the answer is no.

You compared an Astra to a 2000 Civic in fuel economy and 2008 Civic Si and 2009 G37 in shifting and speed. If you think it's going to exceed them in fuel economy, speed, and handling I don't know what to say. The Astra is a fun to drive econobox with good value for the dollar.

[marx404]

All cars have 'some' body roll - my friend dropped his G35 coupe because it has 'some' body roll. The point is does it have more body roll than other cars in the same class? Based on my test drives the answer is no.

You compared an Astra to a 2000 Civic in fuel economy and 2008 Civic Si and 2009 G37 in shifting and speed. If you think it's going to exceed them in fuel economy, speed, and handling I don't know what to say. The Astra is a fun to drive econobox with good value for the dollar.


well put. alot of people get confused when comparing apples to oranges.

[captainzerocool]

I don't mean to derail the thread but you picked an odd subject to ruffle your feathers over. Fox News is biased. Saying they aren't is like saying The Daily Show and Colbert Report are serious 'fair and balanced' news shows. :D

And CNN isn't?

[OPEL Blitz]

If CNN is biased, Fox News is so far off the scale it cannot be considered journalism. We had it over here in Sweden for a few years (introduced in late September 2001) and it was always hillarious to watch because of the unique spin they had on "news". The channel was pulled in 2006 and replaced by the english edition of al-Jazeera.

[marx404]

....and that's why I get my news from Jon Stewart if I get the news at all, LOL.

[saturn_69]

And CNN isn't?



If CNN is biased, Fox News is so far off the scale it cannot be considered journalism. We had it over here in Sweden for a few years (introduced in late September 2001) and it was always hillarious to watch because of the unique spin they had on "news". The channel was pulled in 2006 and replaced by the english edition of al-Jazeera.

ALL media is biased. It isn't about 'news', it's about ratings. Pulling in demographics. Owning timeslots. It's all infotainment. FoxNews leans to the right because that political mindset felt left out and it was, admittedly, an untapped segment of the population. That doesn't make them wrong, it just means they are putting a conservative spin on their stories. CNN does the same for the left. To state that whatever news source you believe isn't biased is damn naive. I tend to watch BBC America's news. No spin towards either the Left or the Right....they treat the 'sides' as if they both suck, which they do. It's about the most unbiased news you can get, and from the outside looking in, it's much less likely to require bias.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program, "The Astra: Does it suck like Edmunds thinks?"

[dubstyl86]

Now back to our regularly scheduled program, "The Astra: Does it suck like Edmunds thinks?"

Well I guess someone had to slap this forum awake but like many have said, the article is INACCURATE in several ways and even those who regret their decision to buy the Astra but have really paid attention to many aspects of the car's handling and build quality would notice this. The funniest thing about all this is they wrote a review for the 2008! here it is ---> http://www.edmunds.com/saturn/astra/2008/review.html

And here is one observation in the that may leave us all scratching our heads about the "body roll" comment on the 2009 article

"....thanks to its European-influenced suspension tuning. In our instrumented testing, the Astra performed superbly, matching the handling and grip numbers achieved by more performance-oriented nameplates"

[Robor007]

And CNN isn't?

Is CNN biased (left leaning)? Yes. Are they biased the same degree Fox News is biased (right leaning)? Not by a long shot.