Get BCM error codes without tech II

[drider1969]

I was wondering if there was a way to get the BCM code related to why my service light (wrench) is one without needing a tech II unit. Dealer wants $90 :upset: to get the code. Of course the nice enough to tell me the $90 will be used toward repair coses...

Thanks in advance!

[Gerry Proctor]

You don't need a Tech II, but you do need a scanner that can read more than OBDII codes. Many parts retailers will scan codes, but I don't know if the scanners they use will read enhanced and manufacturer-specific codes, which is what you need. So you either find someone that has one or you pay the piper.

[drider1969]

Ok. I do have a laptop software package and OBD II cable from http://obddiagnostics.com/ that lets me see all the OBD II codes in all of the tables but no clue which tables I need to look in to pick up the code. The site has a lot of detail on coding the interface to pull more details than the program shows but I would still need to know what to pull to get that data. Is there a good reference from the diagnostic codes GM uses for the VUE so I could track down the data?

Thanks!

[Gerry Proctor]

Here's a link to GM's site for codes: http://service.gm.com/gmspo/mode6/index.html

I'm not familiar with the software you're using so I can't say how you access the different manufacturer modules. I know how to do it on my scanner (generic OBD, manufacturer OBD, other tests and such), but that doesn't help you very much. Normally, the menu would be intuitive and guide you to the tests you want to perform.

[drider1969]

The codes listed look like those for Check Engine versus the BCM codes that are supposed to trigger the service + wrench light. I am not getting MIL issues but the BCM ones that I am trying to track down but I may just be confused. The Dealer said it could be something in the form of a bad washer fluid sensor or similar type problem versus an emission system problem. I will look at the mode 6 section of the program to see if that sheds more light on the issue.

[Gerry Proctor]

Mode 6 only covers engine issues. I don't have a comprehensive list of all GM module codes or where to find them on the net. If you're looking for BCM codes for a specific vehicle, it's going to be tough without the FSM.

[fdryer]

I've been interested in scanner/readers too but hesitant as to which ones will give me all the codes and run into a dead end. As typical of electronics, the manufacturers and aftermarketers seem to only have the desire to describe in technospeak, parroting only specific terms that sometimes (for me) confuses to no end!? :hmpf: I've found in my line of work that people seem to understand terms in more human ways to relate some electronics functions. In this case there's specific language such as canbus, keyword protocol, pulse width modulation, variable pulse width, etc., that adds to the confusion process. It seems to boil down to having the right adapters for not only the language but the software to easily display the codes either as a line message or in a graphics mode for friendly interpretation by anyone. Here's one key link that may help; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44819. The second digit, the one after the 'P' becomes important for what I believe the wrench codes would make GM specifically list for unique use. If I'm wrong please correct me. For example, P0xxx would be the universal generic codes while P1xxx outlines GM specific codes.

If upon some time to become familiar with your new scanner you pick up a P1xxx code, then you're reading wrench codes. Again, correct me if I'm wrong as I'd like as much to understand the confusion as much as anyone else but don't seem to find anyone posting some clarification about these issues. :cool:

All the codes are here in our How-to library whether on page 5 or 6 under OBD II Powertrain Codes. Just look them up as Wolfman supplied this for everyone's use.

[drider1969]

Thanks for the great information. I will hook up the unit when I get home and take another look. The software at least shows mode 6 test results. As far as I can tell I did not have any DTCs at all for the service light and it did not pick up any scan codes. That is why I am wondering if there was another way than a scan tool to get the VUE to dump out the code it thinks is the problem.

[BobbyP]

I've been interested in scanner/readers too but hesitant as to which ones will give me all the codes and run into a dead end. As typical of electronics, the manufacturers and aftermarketers seem to only have the desire to describe in technospeak, parroting only specific terms that sometimes (for me) confuses to no end!? :hmpf: I've found in my line of work that people seem to understand terms in more human ways to relate some electronics functions. In this case there's specific language such as canbus, keyword protocol, pulse width modulation, variable pulse width, etc., that adds to the confusion process. It seems to boil down to having the right adapters for not only the language but the software to easily display the codes either as a line message or in a graphics mode for friendly interpretation by anyone. Here's one key link that may help; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44819. The second digit, the one after the 'P' becomes important for what I believe the wrench codes would make GM specifically list for unique use. If I'm wrong please correct me. For example, P0xxx would be the universal generic codes while P1xxx outlines GM specific codes.

If upon some time to become familiar with your new scanner you pick up a P1xxx code, then you're reading wrench codes. Again, correct me if I'm wrong as I'd like as much to understand the confusion as much as anyone else but don't seem to find anyone posting some clarification about these issues. :cool:

All the codes are here in our How-to library whether on page 5 or 6 under OBD II Powertrain Codes. Just look them up as Wolfman supplied this for everyone's use.

ScangaugeII reads and clears codes... It also supplies a wealth of information. :)
http://www.scangauge.com/assets/graphics/IMG_2009_withdims.jpg

[drider1969]

A little more than i can afford right now but I will keep that in mind. Thanks!

[ryanB3]

SG II (I have one) does NOT!! read extended and BCM codes. It just reads the general "check engine" codes that autozone can do for you. I was hoping it would read my airbag light code but nope...

[drider1969]

:dizzy: Ok now I am confused. Does the Scangauge II read tech 2 codes or not? My current configuration can read the normal scan codes, monitor everything related to emissions and get mode 5 and mode 6 data, but not tech 2 codes from the BCM.

I got the wife to agree to let me get the Scangauge II :D but if it does not read the tech 2 codes from the BCM then it is a lot of money to do what I can do now.

Can anyone confirm if it does really read tech 2 codes or just have programming to read extra mode 5 and mode 6 data?

Thanks!

[Gerry Proctor]

Scangauge only monitors OBDII sensor data. It will not pull any enhanced or other module codes.

If you lived near me, I'd be happy to hook you up to a professional-level scanner so you could see how you access OEM tests/systems and what you get. There is a world of difference between the consumer stuff and what shops use. But that shows up in price as well and the learning curve is a lot steeper.

[drider1969]

Thanks! I was hoping there was a way to put in a jumper to get it to flash codes on the lights or odometer LCD versus having to take it in for professional reading. I can get most of the scangauge II OBD data now with the tool I have.

I am taking away from this discussion that an OBDII interface cannot pull any of the tech 2 data? I have details on coding the interface I have now to pull data but if the tech 2 unit uses a different protocol from the OBDII or will not recognize requests then I guess I am out of luck. I don't mind hacking out the code needed to get the data if I can still use the interface I already have since it seems to be able to act much like a modem to the car computer.

Thanks!

[Gerry Proctor]

Again, I am not familiar with your computer software so it's hard for me to say difinitively what it will or won't do, but my hunch is that if it doesn't specifically say it will pull enhanced or manufacturer-specific codes or do bi-directional controls, that it will not. This is a high-end feature and it would be lauded in the marketing literature if it did.

I'm not clear on your terminology at to what TechII codes are. The TechII is a scanner made by Vertronix for GM. In that sense, there are no TechII codes, it's just that a TechII can access modules and layers in the computer that the lower end scanners (many of these are just code readers and don't offer features such as pathfinding, tech tips, and other features you would find in a scanner) can not. But you don't need a TechII to reach out to this information. A properly configured scanner, like an OTC Genesis or SnapOn Modus (aka The Red Brick), will do the same thing. Just FYI, a well-equiped TechII runs about $6k.

[drider1969]

From what the dealer told me and how it came on around 60K and will not go off I think it is just a "come pay for service" light. I will try the reset procedure of having the car with the key at ACC and hold down the reset button. The dealer said I should see some code with an OBDII scanner if that light was on. I used my scanner and the one from the mechanic next door and there were still no codes shown, and it said none were stored.

Am I on the right track that the error codes should show up with an OBDII tester? The software I use lets me see and monitor all of the various gauges, oxygen sensors, etc, so I would think it can pull the codes properly.

Thanks!

[Gerry Proctor]

...Am I on the right track that the error codes should show up with an OBDII tester? The software I use lets me see and monitor all of the various gauges, oxygen sensors, etc, so I would think it can pull the codes properly.

Thanks!

Unfortunately, no. All scanners and code readers will pull generic OBDII codes. The cheaper scanners (not code readers) will also allow you to see live data (mode 1) as well as freeze frame(mode 2, which you should look at. If an OBDII code is set, it stores a freeze frame of the data the moment it occured and this could lead you to something), and most other modes, like 7 for pending codes. As you get up to the better scanners (better in the sense of more vehicle-specific information, not always useful to the DIY user), you get into the OEM codes. Even with a decent home-user scanner, you'll find that the access to live data is inconsistent as to what it will show. This is because there is no code to retrieve and interpret everything in the uncomputed values from the PIDs.

If it were a generic OBDII code, you'd be able to see it. The MIL would also be on. And with your software, I'm sure you have the option to clear the code, mode 4, and if you try it, the light won't go out. The wrench light(different from the MIL or what's also called the check engine light) could be a number of things, both consequential and not. It could be anything from a bad coolant level sensor to a slipping transmission.

You might try an independent shop. They will probably retrieve the code for a lot less than Saturn. But I really think you are stuck on this one. Sorry. Wish I could be more help.

[fdryer]

I tend to agree with ryanb3's declaration of Scangauge's lack of capability of reading GM specific trouble codes when its just an uplevel real-time scanner made for general purpose use as it was designed. Plug and play and adds a few features like mpg calculation, voltage monitoring, etc., but not give P1xxx codes that would be manufacturer specific. I can be wrong and would be if a Scangauge owner posts any P1xxx code snapshot directly off the Scangauge screen. Techtool II is just a high end product that GM contracts out for dealer wide use and consistency of control for the vast fleet of GM brands so it must have a broad based tool that requires more than regular functions that store variety scanner/readers are capable of. The sophistication of Techtool II is to allow GM dealer techs the capability of monitoring the same data but in a much more graphics intensive display for individual sensors whether to record for uploading or live monitoring of problem issues. We don't pay for this type of sophistication and generally want the generic codes, P0xxx, that are universal to all manufacturers. Techtool II has GM's desire for the additional manufacturer trouble codes so GM pays for this as exclusive programming. Remember that this is an across the board GM-wide feature in adition to the normal features Techtool II does already. It isn't that Techtool II is the only scanner/reader to do this but stands out from everyone else only by desire from GM to have a multi-use tool for all the dealers techs. This tool also performs the BCM programming that's unique but if you/anyone had access to this information and can adapt the program for pc/laptop use, all the better. Just don't count on it. My hesitation on reader/scanner purchase is whether to have a dedicated tool that costs more to have the capability to read GM specific codes or just have the plain jane one. I lean towards the British adaptation of an o'scope probe/adapter circuit board/program to monitor live single data, skipping the GM codes. The trade-off is not reading codes but simply measuring output signals scope style and interpreting from there. Of course, this should couple with a generic scanner but ideally a scanner reading manufacturer specific code. It seems, to me anyway, the glaring lack of declaring a product capable of reading/displaying specific codes like "not only can our product read the regular universal trouble codes but can also read and display GM/Ferrari/Jaguar/Ford/Chrysler/Bently/what-have-you" codes!". I don't see this in any advertised items, even the ones spelling out unique use for GM cars. I've yet to read of anyone here pulling out the P1xxx codes from their personal reader/scanner. :(

To elaborate a bit; I've examined my FSM that covers the L200/L300's and looked over the DTC's between P0xxx's and P1xxx's. The only GM specific codes (P1xxx) would be for BCM theft deterrent alarm codes, communication codes alerting to problems with each mini-computer communicating to each other, and more specific TAC/APP codes addressing the throttle-by-wire system for the L300 engines. Other than those mentioned, virtually all the codes are listed as P0xxx, the universal generic codes most scanner/readers are capable of displaying. I'd say that 95%+ of the trouble codes would cover almost anyone's personal scanner while the more expensive ones at the garage shop level should be capable of reading the remaining 5% but only if the garage elects to spend the money for this extra capability in return for greater profits on servicing. its a two-way street. Pay more to get more.

I think you'll have to spend more time acquainting yourself with your new diagnostics tool to become familiar with the various displays and information. Perhaps when you can read and interpret the information something may jump out at you to indicate the reason for the wrench light/code. You can do this with the engine off as well as idling to display which sensors are in real time, history data, values, etc.. Sometimes what is lacking is made up in information, long hand style as in data that needs interpretation instead of the specific manufacturer code. Understanding how to read your new diagnostic tool will go a long way towards whether you want this tool or are willing to pay more for instant indication, the type that Techtool II does as well as others but at more cost.

[Gerry Proctor]

...I'd say that 95%+ of the trouble codes would cover almost anyone's personal scanner while the more expensive ones at the garage shop level should be capable of reading the remaining 5% but only if the garage elects to spend the money for this extra capability in return for greater profits on servicing. its a two-way street. Pay more to get more.

....

That's one aspect of why garages pay $4k+ for a scanner and around $2k a year for software upgrades. But there's a lot more to these scanners than just being able to read enhanced codes and data that the consumer models can't. You really need to flight test one of these sometime to understand why they cost so much more. Many votech colleges offer education classes on auto technology, including how to use a scanner. It's well worth the money even if you don't own one of the high-end jobs. In the end, it would be hard to operate an independent shop without scanners fully capable (along with skilled techs) of assisting the diagnostics process. They simply can't afford to have limitations that drive business away.

[fdryer]

I agree, sometimes we have to pay the piper unless there are tools out there that are less expensive and made available. Computer prices have dropped drastically and since scanner/readers aren't as competitive as pc's the new scanner/readers market won't be so competitive to sell more equipment with more features ultimately giving us almost the same capabilities as the more expensive dedicated equipment commercial establishments use.

A new posting from another poster that was able to have the codes given to him from the dealer;

p0341 - Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Performance
p1599 - Engine Stall or Near Stall
p1640 - Driver -1- Input High Voltage
p1641 - Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control Circuit

The P0341 can be retrieved from generic readers but the remaining three with the P1xxx codes were only retrieveable from the dealer.

[drider1969]

Thanks for all the replies. I guess I will have to bite the bullet and drop $90 at the dealer to find out what the codes are. It just seems very stupid to force customers to come in and fork over buckets of money just to get a code that they want to charge wheelbarrows full of money to attempt to fix but often do not.

It really makes me suspicious of GM as a whole when they do things like this. It is just like the repairman that barely fixes the problem so that it will break again or cause another problem for them to fix later. Examples being turning break disk but not mentioning the obviously worn wheel bearing knowing it will need to be replaced before long thus being able to charge again for tear down when they could have done it at the same time.