Alt. and ABS Cont'd

[Chazberry]

'Battery' and 'ABS' lights are on. The rebuilt Alt I installed 7500 mi. ago is putting out 14.5V, and the battery seems to be staying fully charged. But I need a state inspection, so I decided to let Saturn do some diagnostics = $107. Diagnostics come back:
1. Alt has "Internal Electrical Fault" - putting out OK voltage, but not enough current. (Interesting - I always thought the voltage drives the current?) Recommend new Alt = $600.
2. ABS is bad Wheel Speed Sensor ("Internal Electrical Fault") - must replace wheel hub ass'y = $575
3. Btw - your T'Stat is bad ("Internal Mechanical Fault" - P0128) = $350
4. Btw - your Water Pump is bad ("Internally Binding/Noisy") = $395

So - I go in there with 2 idiot lights and now I'm lookin' at $1,920 worth:eek:
They also say it can't pass inspection with an ABS light - I'm skeptical.
Customer Declined Repairs.

[fdryer]

1-What's your state inspection regulations (look it up on their DMV site) requiring ABS since it can fail but leave the car with perfectly good operating brakes? They may lock-up on you but if you've driven a car w/o ABS then you're familiar with standard brakes.

2-Have the electrical (alternator) system checked by another auto store that can test it for free. One clue of possible alternator faults is a whine coming from the radio rising and falling in time with the engine rpm. You can test your alternator by measuring the voltage from the battery terminals; if cycling the heater fan drops the voltage a large amount below (approximately) 14v then it may be possible that the alternator is failing slowly and may need to be replaced. You can replace it yourself and save the money. There's also the possibility of a worn belt tensioner that isn't keeping the serpentine belt taut allowing belt slippage. A loose belt won't transfer engine torque from the crankshaft to all the belt driven accessories; water pump, power steering, alternator, and a/c compressor. Be sure the tensioner is holding the belt tight otherwise a loose tensioner (worn spring) can allow the alternator act as if it faulty.

3-The thermostat and water pump can be replaced by you, saving more money. The wheel speed sensor (you'll need to know which wheel hub) can be replaced by another repair shop that won't be as costly. Maybe you can see which wheel hub has the damage to either the sensor or the 'teeth' mounted on the hub.

[Chazberry]

Mucho thanks for the tips fdryer. I'm looking at the NY Regs (http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/broch/c-50.htm) and they don't mention ABS. "Power brake unit - check for proper operation" - a little open to interpretation. But I just ordered a wheel hub ass'y. I'm gonna try to just swap out the WSS. Saturn said it's the left front - got something for my $107.;)
Re: Alt - I have a fancy new battery charger that says the Alt and Batt are A-OK. I installed a Volt Gauge so I'll be able to tell when this Alt goes south - I'll live with the Batt light. I replaced the Assy Belt when I did the Alt and I'm not hearing any slipping/squealing or radio noise.
Re: T'stat/Pump - I'll wait until the pump starts leaking and then maybe do that and the Timing Belt.
Thanks again.

[VTchemist]

The water pump on the 3.0L engine is not easy to get to. If you have the tools (and a good manual), you could do it. I think I read it is a 3.5 hour job in the shop.

I had mine replaced at 75K by the dealership. It was leaking. Cost me about $350.

Other 3.0L owners have talked about changing the thermostat and water pump when the timing belt is changed out (at 100K). How close are you to 100K?

Seems like if you replace the waterpump, the thermostat should not be another $300. They should work with you on the repair costs. If not, go to a shop that can work on the L81 (opel) engine.

[fdryer]

The battery light (being a very good idiot light) is tied to the electrical system circuit monitoring the voltage level and if it lights up its a good indication of something wrong with the electrical system. Its looking at the minimum voltage level for the entire electrical system to operate so staying on means attention needs to be turned towards the entire electrical system; the battery, battery cables, alternator and its connections, and main grounds for freedom of corrosion. The light staying on is alerting you to start looking closely for anything including the alternator even though its relatively new. Most chargers may not have the capability to actually tell you that an alternator failed and would require a better understanding of electronics. Knowing how to use a multimeter is one way by being able to measure the voltage at the battery terminals and understanding how an alternator can fail in the gray area between a functioning one and one beginning to fail. Alternators can fail 'softly' by appearing to have the voltage but not have the current needed to supply the demands of the electrical system while slowly recharging the battery. The diode pack is the main solid state component that allows the current to be generated for a properly operating alternator and if one or more of the six diodes fail the battery light can turn on indicating a faulty alternator. Sometimes these alternators pass store tests so this can be very troublesome to isolate. I suggested the heater fan as a way to load the electrical system while monitoring the voltage and if the voltage drops below (approximately) 14v as a way to determine a faulty alternator or something wrong in the electrical system. Good alternators always maintains voltage regulation above idling rpm to approximately 14.5v+ whether all the lights and accessories are on or not. You can see this with a digital voltmeter as the electrical accessories are turned on and off, the voltage regulation maintains the voltage level while the current demands fluctuate. A noticeable drop in voltage would be a good hint of something wrong and coupled with the battery light seems to point towards the alternator and/or the fusible link that supplies the main current feed back to the car's electrical system.

[Chazberry]

fdryer - thanks again for your suggestions - more data:

I hooked up my Fluke across the battery and started the car.
Alt is putting out 14.66V. I turned the blower to 'high' - voltaged dropped to 14.5. I turned on the headlights - voltage dropped to 14.4. Not much increase when I rev the engine.

[Chazberry]

Thanks VT - my estimate actually says 3.1+ hrs. They do have some kind of 'package deal' for $950, but I'm not sure exactly what all that includes - I think Timing Belt and Plugs, but obviously you also want to do the Pump and T'stat. I have 85k mi. now.
I will definitely get an FSM before diving in there. I used to think poor engineering was to blame for cars being so torturous (and expensive) to repair nowadays, but I'm starting to lean toward 'conspiracy theory'. I suspect they want to discourage you from keeping a car for the long haul. Like everything else in our 'disposable society'... Doesn't pay to fix it - just buy a new one. :x

[Chazberry]

So I wound up ordering a Wheel Hub Ass'y from RockAuto (Timken 513189 - $112) and removed the WSS. I had to ream out the opening in the connector support bracket enough to get the old one out. Installed the new sensor and voila - no more ABS light! And saved me $463! (Still scratching my head on the Battery light.)