2.2L ecotech ac compressor same in all vehicles?

[YourMainParadox]

Ok people are telling me that my ac compressor is dead and the dealer wants and insane amount for the thing new... what other 2.2L ecotech cars have the same compressor in them?

[fdryer]

1-You've posted enough to know not to play twenty questions with car info left out, they should be in your personal profile for all to see without repeating them for each new post.

2-Who are these "people" telling you the compressor needs replacing? Have you tried a/c shops for a second and third opinion?

[guitar_stitch]

You can very likely get a decent compressor at AutoZone. However, the first thing you need to do is get a line check on your Vue. Make sure your system is holding pressure. If not, then find the leak.

[OhioVueBoy]

IIRC, the VUE A/C compressor is unique to the application.

It is a variable scroll compressor, and can vary its output depending on demand.

~D.J.~

[YourMainParadox]

discount auto wants 800+ for a reman. compressor.
My system showed good pressure but the compressor would not cut on.. I tried flushing it out and putting in new oil and r134a and then it works and it is still at the same pressure... but now it works... odd but hey I do not have to spend crazy amounts on a compressor.

[fdryer]

Maybe you were low on refrigerant to begin with.

[YourMainParadox]

I have a ac guage actually two of them and both had the level in the blue which is recomended.... but now I may have a leak because the level dropped below the blue after using it a couple days.

[fdryer]

When referring to a/c pressures are you measuring at recommended engine rpm's or at idle? Low pressure reading between 30-45psi? Have you checked for leaks?

[YourMainParadox]

I am checking at idle like it states on the guage. And there is now obviously a leak otherwise it would not have lowered after flushing it. I do not have the dye and uv kit to check for leaks otherwise I would. My friend has a r-134 detector that we ran under the hood over every place we could and he thinks it may be in the dash then since it never beeped under the hood. I am not sure

[fdryer]

I see now. Unfortunately, idling speed is not the recommended rpm for pressure readings. Factory manuals for virtually every car manufacturer recommend much higher rpm's for many reasons that you'll need to learn from a/c technical manuals. All pressure readings are done between 1500-2000 rpm. Look at it from another point of view - do you drive with the a/c at idle speed or more like 2000 rpm? The store refill cans instruct you to conduct pressure checks at idle because of liability. If you were to rev the engine to factory recommended rpm's and not take special precautions to ensure that no one is in the vicinity of a high revving engine without the parking brakes applied and automatics in PARK, a very real potential danger exists if a transmission somehow shifts into reverse or drive. Not a good place to be so no company that sells refrigerant will instruct anyone to raise the engine rpm's for measuring a/c pressures. Accidents do happen whether from careless inattention or anything that would distract anyone from too many people standing around chatting away while an engine is revving.

Properly using a standard set of refrigerant gauges along with the training and knowledge of a/c principles separates the DIYers from those certified to work on vehicle a/c systems and required EPA compliance. Anyone can have access to all the information necessary to work on a/c but there's quite a bit of knowledge needed, more than just recharging from store cans. Perhaps you haven't read this for some background information; http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80107. You're at the beginning of what most car owners aren't willing to accept by attempting store can refills; your a/c leaked out and until some time is spent to find the source of the leak, you'll be chasing your tail refilling and possibly trying leak sealer (I wouldn't advise using it) in hopes of avoiding the repairs that sometimes are necessary to bring an a/c system back to a sealed state. One of the dangers of airconditioning is that freeze burns are very possible (eye protection warning!) as well as high pressures exceeding 250psi on a normally operating system. Not being aware of some of the facts can be very dangerous to you and anyone working nearby without adequate safety education and protection. No lecture intended, just plain common sense when you're aware of what you're doing and can anticipate the worst possible scenario and prepared for it. Then the fun takes over if you can figure out what's wrong. :dizzy:

[YourMainParadox]

the person who I borrowed the r134a detector from has all of the equipment as he is an ac tech. I just need to track down the leak to be sure of what has to be replaced.. I ran it over the places on the condencer that I could see but most of it is well hidden and looks to be hard to get to unless you want to take appart the entire car :(

[fdryer]

If you've never worked on a/c problems then it can be a big mystery unless you're being helped. It will be more difficult if you haven't learned about basic airconditioning. A/C isn't an engine that can worked on from time to time with oil changes, air filters, and replacing plugs. Once an a/c system is operating its never worked on again, period. Not even using the gauges to check for pressure. Its sealed and is expected to run forever just like your refrigerator. The biggest difference between the refrigerator and your car's a/c is that the fridge isn't bouncing off the shocks, made to run all day in the hottest and most humid days then spend the winters in freezing temperatures unused until the next summer comes around. Heat cold, and vibration isn't healthy for car a/c systems and we're not even imagining what happens when a car is crashed, taking out the front end! A good hit in the front destroys an a/c system immediately and has to be rebuilt. A/C is completely separate from the engine and transmission. It seems to me that the person you're borrowing a/c tools from should be in the best position to guide you to finding the source of the leak. Borrow a manual to read about leak detection and the most likely places leaks develop, with or without dye. If you're serious about troubleshooting then you should have injected dye with the R134a so future problems can be spotted easily. If you are learning then remove half the R134a with the recycling equipment and inject a pound of R134a w/dye. Now the a/c is working and in a few days, more or less, when this charge leaks out you should be able to see the dye with the naked eye or with an ultraviolet light. You can check every day when you review how to look for leaks. This is basic troubleshooting, even before using dye. It won't be easy the first time if there's a small leak but a large leak is rather easy to find. Just take the time to read and ask questions from your a/c tech. There's nothing secret about airconditioning once you have all the information, its knowing how to use it that takes you to the next level. :cool:

[YourMainParadox]

Well I finally got it looked at by a good ac tech and it was very low on r-134a but he spent a good hour on it with his electronic sniffer and never found a single leak. He refilled it with new stuff and put some UV dye in it but still no sign of the leak. What do I do now <.<

[fdryer]

This post started last year and is still ongoing with what seems to be two refills attempted. One recharge and loss of airconditioning is still a leak while refilling again and seeing a gauge reading of a lower amount is still the same - a leak. Did you poke the leak detector into the HVAC box or into any interior vent? This may be something left to a pro at this point as you're not having any luck at finding the source of the leak. A/C is not a DIY project if you're not prepared to go the whole route. Either there's a leak or there isn't and your descriptions are about leaks as you haven't once mentioned overpressurization yet, if this system is truly sealed and there's still no cooling. A sealed system will keep taking more refrigerant and wind up with extreme high pressures on the high side (when two gauges are used). A/C is either fixed or it leaks, nothing in-between.

Does the leak detector work? Was it tested by sampling refrigerant? An hour and no leak was detected and the system still leaked out? Something's not right and since I'm no expert I won't and cannot comment on the capabilities of any good a/c tech that seems to have trouble finding a leak. This is assuming more refrigerant has been injected and lost in the time spent on this repair. The refrigerant went somewhere...............

[YourMainParadox]

I kept an eye on him and he sprayed some of the r-134a and then held the meter there and it went crazy before he started then he looked like he checked every little detail including using a long flexi extender to go inside every vent while it was running and while it was off. He had the full set of guages on the vue high and low. I got my own set of the uv test kit (not nice like his) and peeked around but the only glow I saw was around the valves and the spray mist from when he disconnected it.

oh and it was low but not empty as there was still a vacuum inside when I was questioning.

[fdryer]

...oh and it was low but not empty as there was still a vacuum inside when I was questioning.

Another HINT of a major problem. When a sealed a/c system is fully charged and in good operating condition, there is never a vacuum reading, ever. If you saw the vacuum gauge with the needle in the negative zone while the a/c was running, this is just another indication that a LEAK occurred already. Here's a general guide to anyone attempting to learn anything a/c related;

1-With the a/c OFF and any gauge attached to the SUCTION SIDE, there will ALWAYS be positive pressure, anywhere from 60-90psi. If smart enough to use a full set of a/c manifold gauges, both the low and high side pressures will be exactly the same; 60-90psi. These pressures are not to be used as a reference to whether a system is charged or not. Its strictly a reference to pressures in general when the a/c system works and isn't running.

2-With the a/c ON and operating correctly and the SUCTION SIDE is being measured, no vacuum or negative pressure will ever be displayed whether idling or above idling, NEVER. Using a full set of a/c manifold gauges, the high side will always have positive pressures above 100psi. As stated above, these pressures are not to be used as reference to whether a system is charged or not. They're merely reference pressures and can change as rpm changes. The vacuum gauge will never indicate a vacuum in a properly sealed operating system but will indicate pressures as low as 30psi. Never below unless this system is leaking or a major blockage occurred in the system plumbing. Like injecting sealer.

Has it ever occurred to anyone, especially the a/c tech, that the two service ports may be the source of the leak?

[YourMainParadox]

Since he could not find the leak he suggested changing out the valves in the high and low service ports and he said to check those with the UV kit I have daily to see if there is any sign of a leak there because that is the only place he could could not test because that will always set off their sniffers. I really hope it is the valves because anything else might be very expensive. I did see some random small spots of glowing near where the high and low lines go into the firewall but it looked like it could be some of the splatter from when he took the machine off the low port. He did say that the condenser up front for the most part is not visible and that could be a hidden problem but it would cost alot in labor to be able to inspect that. There has to be a better way than taking the front end appart?

[fdryer]

If you're in doubt about whether the dye was from overspray or a real leak, simply use the uv light to illuminate the areas that glow and wash off the area with soap or anything you have. Now the area is clean. Check again after wiping off to note where dye isn't glowing for next time. If the area has a leak then this will glow. Dye isn't permanent so wiping off any area that has been illuminated and no longer glowing will set up the system for the next time you use the uv light. Then a new glow would indicate where the leak is emanating from. The whole idea of dye detection is based on locating a source of refrigerant leaking but if overspray of refrigerant and dye isn't wiped away how are you or anyone going to tell the difference between old dye that was never wiped off and a fresh leak? Erase the evidence of any refrigerant use so there isn't any possibility of confusion. Do that to the service valves each time the hoses are disconnected and cover the fitting with a rag to catch any overspray. Use the uv light to check that the dye is contained and not scattered everywhere to avoid confusing fresh refrigerant from a real leak.

[YourMainParadox]

thats what i did is wash off what I could (the part by the firewall even a toothbrush can't clean it all off) and I have not seen any glowing spots that did not originally glow from splatter. I also have to do it at night because I only have the single led glow light and glasses where he has a huge one that you can even see during the day. oye AC is sooo frustrating

[fdryer]

Uhhh, welcome to the real world of airconditioning. This isn't plug n' play as many would have you think. Whether you want to accept it or not, your dilemma is most likely way beyond the average DIYer that thinks a/c consists of refilling the system every year for a cheap fix and looking the other way as far as environmental concerns go. Reading past threads will reveal less than a handful of successful (major) repairs resulting in restoration of full airconditioning compared to those posts that fall silent, possibly from being overwhelmed at the amount of information required to fully understand what takes place in every a/c shop that commands whatever costs customers can bear - the price to pay for the technical educational background and skill in using the various tools necessary to achieve full repairs of automotive airconditioning. Its not rocket science but not having basic understanding of high school level physics and chemistry just adds an air of mystery about it.

[YourMainParadox]

Well it might be the refill a couple times a year type thing untill I can afford to pay them to take the car appart and track down the leak. I know the vue was in a minor front end accident (doubt it was reported) because there is a hole in the bumper and a bend in the metal but the condenser looks untouched from what I can see.

[YourMainParadox]

Well after 24 days of checking 1 or 2 times a week the leak has finally shown its ugly face. Funny thing is the ac was blowing ice cold until the last couple days when it was just getting semi chilly.

The UV die really does show under the light i got off ebay (the one that comes with the kit is pretty weak) Still neither are as good as the light the mechanic has which you can see during the day. I posted a pic to show what it is... I guess this means I need a new condenser? I had guessed it might be this after finding some bent metal behind the bumper near here but the mechanic said it was still an inch from the condencer so it should not be damaged. Where is the cheapest place to get a condencer and that piece of metal just in front of the bottom part of it?

PIXL http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/thumbs/IMG_7024_Large_.JPG (http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=50706)

[fdryer]

Any way you can take the same picture at the same distance and angle but during the day or with a flash on the camera? It looks extremely difficult to figure out what's glowing. Then take several more pictures from different angles to ensure somebody can identify what you're showing.

[BobbyP]

One does feel really great when the problem is finally fixed! :) I hope you find the problem soon. fdryer is the man when it comes to AC!

Once I had a leak that only occurred when I drove my SC. I believe the dealer said it was an o-ring that was sealing and then not sealing. The dye found it. They told me that there was around 12 o-ring seals in the system. After a couple of them failed I wanted to have them replace them all, but they convinced me that they would eventually settle down. They were right the leaks finally stopped...

[YourMainParadox]

Any way you can take the same picture at the same distance and angle but during the day or with a flash on the camera? It looks extremely difficult to figure out what's glowing. Then take several more pictures from different angles to ensure somebody can identify what you're showing.

I had already taken this pic and it is with the flash and the ultraviolet so some glow is still there but not much.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/500/thumbs/IMG_7026_Large_.JPG (http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=50708)

you can also see the bent metal a bit but my camera is pretty big with the lense on so it will be hard to get good angles.

[fdryer]

Heh-heh, yes I see now but which side is this on? Assuming a lot when we (I) don't know which side this occurred. At any rate, its the condenser coil that broke on one side that probably took a nice hit indirectly, "I had guessed it might be this after finding some bent metal behind the bumper near here but the mechanic said it was still an inch from the condencer so it should not be damaged". I don't know about this mechanic but aluminum is soft and high side system pressures while the a/c system is operating are way above 150psi, higher in HOT and HUMID weather. Remember, heat, cold, and vibration all take their toll on car airconditioning. Hard shocks like a hard hit anywhere is easily transmitted throughout any part of the car including the a/c system. The majority of it is aluminum and its soft. Most welds harden and make aluminum brittle from heat so couple all the metallurgy with a crash that doesn't seem so bad last year but started the initial leak, went on a whole year until you found the source. I wonder what your a/c tech will say when you tell him?

The condenser coil can be found online as well as from most auto stores but you'll have to call first to check as they won't stock these parts but may tell you price. Rockauto.com is one online site, Saturnparts.net, Google a/c condenser coil.

[YourMainParadox]

This is the drivers side and so far the cheapest I have seen a new one is $100 on ebay so far. I want to take appart the front of the car first to check and make sure that it is the condenser and not a fitting or something JUST in case but I am pretty sure that the condenser is the issue since the glowing is only at the bottom of it on the drivers side.

[fdryer]

You won't have to take apart the front end to see everything. The condenser coil is one piece containing two fittings on one side that allows bolting on the filter/drier and has the side tubes running in series or parallel, sometimes called a bulkhead. The coils are set up either as one continuous tube or in parallel depending on design from the old style series R12 to R134a parallel tubes. Its all one piece like removing the radiator fro replacement. Look up the replacements for a good picture.

[YourMainParadox]

the replacements I have seen are all generic pictures. besides a few on ebay which say they are for the 3.0 or 3.5 only ? Did they change the condenser between the engines?

[fdryer]

I don't know for sure but its a pretty safe bet that you should stick with your engine displacement and year to find the correct condenser coil. Have you tried saturnparts.net for the OEM replacement as well as picture? Then cross reference against rockauto.com for more pictures. The better you have an idea of the exact part replacement the better off you'll be as only one fits even though there may be aftermarket replacements for lower prices. Coils aren't cheap as they're major parts and built for a lifetime of use. If you're expecting reasonable pricing, don't expect it. Condenser coils aren't replaced as regularly as spark plugs so they're priced to reflect how much are sold. The less sold the higher the prices and vice versa.

[YourMainParadox]

Saturnparts.net only shows the 3.5L condenser available for $353 and then rockauto has something about the trans cooler in or out of it which i always thought was in the radiator. Makes me worry about ordering from them LOL.

2004 SATURN VUE 2.2L 134cid L4 FI : Heat & Air Conditioning : A/C Condenser

VARIOUS MFR Part # GM3030248 More Info {#15807005, 22664724}
w/2.2L or 3.0L engine $92.89

SPECTRA PREMIUM Part # 73107 More Info
w/ External Transmission Oil Cooler $104.79

SPECTRA PREMIUM Part # 73367 More Info
w/ Internal Transmission Cooler $132.89

PROLIANCE Part # 640183 $150.79


The mechanic said that the system was not compromised so all i need to replace is the leaking part if it is the condenser only and then vacuum the system and recharge. He did recommend to change the high and low valves too as a precaution. Any recommendations?

[fdryer]

I see the dilemma and maybe your confusion with terminology. It would be only one hint that both engines use the same size condenser coil from rockauto's description. You can verify this on saturnparts site by looking condenser coils from both engine references. The two Spectra condenser coils mentioning internal or external transmission oil cooling are most likely in reference to the transmission cooling lines running to/from the radiator behind the condenser coil and their relation to the condenser coil fittings, not where they're used on the condenser coil. Its understandable when reading parts text as they tend to be very short on description as they're intended for the repair people more familiar with car repairs. The pictures aren't representive of the actual condenser coil and that's the way some catalogs address changing parts. The "Various MFR Part #..." tells me this isn't OEM but just another aftermarket replacement. You said OEM from Saturn is $353 and I would believe this to be OEM for a direct fit. Its your choice and your money. The $100 part may be a copper coil and a good second choice but OEM is OEM and that costs $$$ if you expect great a/c operation. Most won't be able to tell the difference after a repair if not told parts were substituted and all but the very few may be able to tell from using their a/c cooling year in and year out with subtle differences. Airconditioning is not cheap.

Valves may be a good idea since they're used very seldom and serve their purpose. Use only exact replacements for peace of mind.

[YourMainParadox]

so I have to ask them if it is copper or aluminum I guess...Are there any gaskets or anything I need with this and they don't seem to list the valves for the high and low side.

[fdryer]

Either buy them in a package locally or from Saturn individually. Saturn will charge high prices. O-rings for each fitting opened, lubed with mineral oil. Saturn may have the replacement a/c service valves or shop online at places selling mobile a/c parts. Google is very good for shopping.

[YourMainParadox]

Yea I always check google for things like that but nothing comes up for "saturn vue ac valves"

[fdryer]

A/c service valves won't be specific to manufacturer. A/c gauges with their hose couplers must be able to connect to any vehicle from any country so schrader valves are standardized for universal use almost everywhere. Google a/c auto parts or something more general for auto airconditioning to come up with sites dealing with auto a/c and the parts needed. Your local auto store may carry them as well as most auto a/c repair shops. You'll also need the valve stem remover/installer, a taller version of the one used to remove and replace tire valve stems.

[YourMainParadox]

hehe that tool is the easy part :P

[YourMainParadox]

Wow it just keeps getting better and better...... I pulled it appart before ordering anything to see about the damage and to make sure it was the condenser and I found alot more hidden damage due to the bumper hiding it.

All the pix of damage: http://profile.imageshack.us/user/iamthedragon/images

Bumper, bumper cover, Bumper Energy Absorber (that foam thing i think), condenser (for sure leaking), and Radiator (bottom is bent but not leaking)

http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/Himg6/scaled.php?server=6&filename=img7057large.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480

http://imgcash6.imageshack.us/Himg6/scaled.php?server=6&filename=img7051large.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480

http://imgcash3.imageshack.us/Himg6/scaled.php?server=6&filename=img7058large.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480

http://imgcash2.imageshack.us/Himg12/scaled.php?server=12&filename=img7060large.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480

http://imgcash4.imageshack.us/Himg6/scaled.php?server=6&filename=img7055large.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=480

[YourMainParadox]

I see the dilemma and maybe your confusion with terminology. It would be only one hint that both engines use the same size condenser coil from rockauto's description. You can verify this on saturnparts site by looking condenser coils from both engine references. The two Spectra condenser coils mentioning internal or external transmission oil cooling are most likely in reference to the transmission cooling lines running to/from the radiator behind the condenser coil and their relation to the condenser coil fittings, not where they're used on the condenser coil. Its understandable when reading parts text as they tend to be very short on description as they're intended for the repair people more familiar with car repairs. The pictures aren't representive of the actual condenser coil and that's the way some catalogs address changing parts. The "Various MFR Part #..." tells me this isn't OEM but just another aftermarket replacement. You said OEM from Saturn is $353 and I would believe this to be OEM for a direct fit. Its your choice and your money. The $100 part may be a copper coil and a good second choice but OEM is OEM and that costs $$$ if you expect great a/c operation. Most won't be able to tell the difference after a repair if not told parts were substituted and all but the very few may be able to tell from using their a/c cooling year in and year out with subtle differences. Airconditioning is not cheap.

Valves may be a good idea since they're used very seldom and serve their purpose. Use only exact replacements for peace of mind.

the ebay ones are aluminium according to them so I think I will go for that and the cheapest so far is $97 shipped... Now I need to find all the other parts too :(