Why 100mph max speed? [Archive]

Uzzy

12-25-2007, 07:40 PM

Most cars are goverened by the speed rating of their tires and pretty much the reason the value is picked. This was the case with the S-series. The sedans, wagons and SOHC coupes were all governed at 108mph, while the DOHC coupes were governed at 125mph. I don't know the official limiter of the VUE, but it could be 100mph depending on the powertrain and trim level.

Tom92SCm

12-25-2007, 11:28 PM

1saxman

12-25-2007, 11:37 PM

RobertJ

12-26-2007, 08:27 AM

Stupid political correctness, as in 'Goodness, why would anyone need to go that fast?'. Dreamed up by a bunch of women at Saturn - 'After all, it's an SUV'. Helmet laws, gun laws, speed limiters - all the same kind of tripe.

The reason we need political correctness is because of people like you that think a "bunch of women at Saturn" dreamed up the limit on SUVs. Below 110 is pretty common accross the board for all SUVs in the country. It certainly wasn't anything dreamed up by women at Saturn. Most of the tires on SUVs are not rated for a high rate of speed. They're generally designed to carry a load. Imagine that, an SUV being used to pull or haul something? You'll find that SUVs that have performance tires and suspensions won't have this same limit. I'm sure the Red Line Vue doesn't have this limitation.

Thankfully, there is a government to protect us from people in this country that only think of themselves. Going 100+ MPH is an SUV "without realizing" it (as OP said) is wreckless and beyond stupid.

1saxman

12-26-2007, 03:51 PM

The reason we need political correctness is because of people like you that think a "bunch of women at Saturn" dreamed up the limit on SUVs. Below 110 is pretty common accross the board for all SUVs in the country. It certainly wasn't anything dreamed up by women at Saturn. Most of the tires on SUVs are not rated for a high rate of speed. They're generally designed to carry a load. Imagine that, an SUV being used to pull or haul something? You'll find that SUVs that have performance tires and suspensions won't have this same limit. I'm sure the Red Line Vue doesn't have this limitation.

Thankfully, there is a government to protect us from people in this country that only think of themselves.

You have been assimilated, but I appreciated your fading mind's final attempt at humor: 'Going 100+ MPH is an SUV "without realizing" it (as OP said) is wreckless and beyond stupid.' Wreckless? That's me! BTW, if the VUE is limited to 100mph, one could not go '100+ without realizing it'. And, our little VUEs are a lot more road-capable than you may think.

coop888

12-26-2007, 04:47 PM

2005 redline goes faster than 108. highly do not recommend it. anything above 95 is definitely to fast in that SUV.

Tethys

12-26-2007, 06:52 PM

Another reason for the speed limiter is likely to protect the accessory drive. Also, pushing a brick through the wind becomes progressively harder the faster one travels. I imagine underbody turbulence at speed plays a cameo role too.

wolfman

12-26-2007, 06:57 PM

' Wreckless? That's me! BTW, if the VUE is limited to 100mph, one could not go '100+ without realizing it'. And, our little VUEs are a lot more road-capable than you may think.

Somehow I think the "less" won't be attached to that word for long...

D C

12-26-2007, 08:30 PM

VUEs are limited to 100mph as a result of the tire speed rating. '05-'07 Redlines are limited to 120mph which is well below the speed rating of the tires (imho, it's more likely the result of Honda not wanting a GM product to go faster than their own product with the same powertrain).

amazinghl

12-26-2007, 08:58 PM

Let me guess, the semi was going at 99mph...

BobbyP

12-26-2007, 10:17 PM

(imho, it's more likely the result of Honda not wanting a GM product to go faster than their own product with the same powertrain).

How dare HONDA! That means they'll catch up with us after we beat them... :upset:

runerx

12-26-2007, 11:04 PM

LESS FILLING!!!!
TASTES GREEAT!!!!

The VUE can

no it can't

yes it can plus mines a redline

youre gonna die

NAAAA it can ive done it

well ok but you were being unsafe

no im not

yes you were you were doing something i wont do

Sissy

nuh uhhh

Well I agree with the OP ANNND ive done it but I did it on a track

wheres my hat??

youre going to die and I hope you dont kill me in the process

tee hee just stay off the sidewalk:D

I'll bring my scraper to remove you and the church bus full of children and the elderly driver that you are going to kill.

so my real question is will my redline R (I put the sticker on myself):hothead: go warp 2 or warp 2.2??

i dunno but I heard if you stick your finger in the lighter socket while you turn the key it disables the nanny ware and you can do warp 2.22

COOL!!!

youre gonna die

good!! as long as I don't have to listen to you anymore

hey anyone have a time slip to back all of this up??

Next week on As Saturn turns......

Dave :usa:

stocksaturn

01-03-2008, 04:59 PM

emsvitil

01-03-2008, 05:25 PM

A lot of SUV all-terrain tires are Q rated which is 100mph....

F-Bobby

01-05-2008, 06:49 PM

the reason it wont let ya go over 100 is cause of the speed rating of the tires that come on the cars. Back in 93 when the 4th generation camaros came out, there was an option to get 235 wide tired instead of 245 on the Z-28. If you got the 235 tires you got a 108 mph limiter, but that wasnt listed anywhere. needless to say people couldnt exactly complain about it to the dealer cause the reponse would be, well you arent supposed to go that fast anyway.

Same thing applies to the vues. Ive been in one and at 85 i feel unsafe. I wouldnt want it to go any faster then 100. The suspension is totally NOT set up for high speeds. Now ive been 145 mph+ in my Firebird Formula and its smooth as glass. that is a type of car that was set up to do those type of speeds. a Vue is not.

eRic 02sc2

01-05-2008, 07:55 PM

All I know is my 94 Sc2 gets to 115 and hits a wall, even down hill. I'll work on that. <----O BTW I did not just say that ;) Too bad their gov. is at 125 And my 2005 AWD V6 Vue is at 100 on the dot. And I'm upset. I'm running 15.3 at 91 MPH Stock. I want to do some mods but there will come a time when by the end of the 1/4 I'll be hitting the governor. That’s garbage. I paid for the car and damn it I want ALL of it! That’s just my take. Don’t bash me.

something wrong with your 94 SC2 ? my old 92 SC hit the 124 mph (200 km/h) limiter without any problems.

http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/data/547/thumbs/306125mph.jpg (http://www.saturnfans.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=3760)

D C

01-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Same thing applies to the vues. Ive been in one and at 85 i feel unsafe. I wouldnt want it to go any faster then 100. The suspension is totally NOT set up for high speeds. Now ive been 145 mph+ in my Firebird Formula and its smooth as glass. that is a type of car that was set up to do those type of speeds. a Vue is not.

I think the VUE is just fine at 85+ and the Redline is "smooth as glass" at over 100. :yes:

1saxman

01-05-2008, 09:06 PM

Somehow I think the "less" won't be attached to that word for long...
Well, let's see - I haven't had a speeding ticket since 1979 and I have never been at fault in an accident nor have I ever wrecked my own car. It just so happens that I can drive a car. I don't speed anymore (not since '79) but under certain conditions, like passing on a two-lane road, I might just go wide open in order to pass as quickly as possible. Yes, that's speeding - reckless driving if 20 mph over in my state - but worth the ticket risk to me. Really, I think 100 is fast enough in a VUE, but I just don't like it being mandated for me. I think you can tell by my other comments that I don't like anything being mandated for me. As for my 2003 VUE, I imagine the little 3.0L would 'hit the wall' at about 103 anyway, so the question is truly academic. Now on the 250 HP 2004-2007, that number definitely goes up - I'm guessing to about 115. And BTW, exceeding the speed rating on your tires is not dangerous unless it's for an extended time. The great majority of drivers are afraid of speed and will never come near the top end of their car, so unless they hear about the speed limiter they'll never know about it. Others may open it up once just to see how fast it'll go. Very, very few of us actually see conditions where extended top end runs are possible, so again, the whole question is academic. I still say the tire speed rating is just an excuse to try to mandate 'safety' by speed-limiting the vehicle.

Tom92SCm

01-05-2008, 09:18 PM

So for those that don't want the 100 mph speed limiter, what speed would you LIKE to be able to go with your top heavy, softly sprung, poorly braked VUE?

pdough

01-06-2008, 12:21 AM

Does anyone know if the governor is controlled by speed sensors? If so, would it be possible to put some circuitry inline with those sensors to "fake" the ECU into beleiving the speed is 100 after the real speed is above that?

If the speed is determined by the computer by wheel sensors, then one could put some circuits in line that change the output once the 100 mph limit is reached. This would be possible if the speed sensors send a varying voltage signal to the ECU/BCM or whatever to tell the car what speed it is traveling. Once the car reaches 100 mph, the "circuit" could interrupt the signal and continue to send the 100 mph signal while the car continues to go faster based on the input from the pedal sensors. If the accelerator is telling the ECU to push more fuel while the speed sensors are not telling the "governor" to shut down fuel delivery it should be doable.

My Vue will never reach these speeds but for those that use the track with the V6 I can understand the frustration...

I'd be willing to look a little deeper if someone could tell me what is telling the governor to shut off fuel delivery. If its wheel sensors (what signal do they send at 100 mph; a +5 or 12V or is it just a varying voltage based on speed), something in the tranny etc...

TheSlayer

01-06-2008, 07:49 AM

Wow Tom...kick me when I'm down...lol

I agree with DC, at 80+ MPH my Redline and even my wifes 02 AWD V6 felt perfectly fine on the highway. My RL was "smooth as glass"

Tom...I would say 120 MPH max would be fine with me. I have the 04 so mine is 100 MPH while the 05-07 is 120 MPH. I haven't drove many cars in my life so far but I wouldn't give the Vue that bad of a rating. Adn don't you have a Vue?? Do you not like it?? They seem to be great vehicles so far. And the Redline Vue is a beautiful vehicle that doesnt cost as much as a Jeep Grand Cherokee SRT8 and Chevy Trailblazer SS. Oh and please check my post in VUE Tech as I am having a lil trouble. Dont laugh Tom, lol

2008 Fiesta Bowl Champions! The West Virginia Mountaineers!!!!! :yes:

VTchemist

01-06-2008, 10:16 AM

IMHO, its the tires. I had a 1993 Maxima 5spd with speed rated tires. I was told the car could do 135 mph (by Car and Driver). I never had it over 85 mph.

The speed rated tires for the Maxima were pricey! But they could "handle" the speed. They were much stiffer tires (to avoid being ripped apart by centrifugal force). Also, the suspension was made softer to accommodate the harder tires. So, you could not fool around with a much softer and "normal" tire on a speed rated suspension. Folks did find you could go down one speed rating and do OK.

But given most VUEs have Duelers to start with, I would be rather afraid to drive my simple VUE over 80 mph on the roads here in Southwestern Virginia.

D C

01-06-2008, 11:03 AM

Does anyone know if the governor is controlled by speed sensors? If so, would it be possible to put some circuitry inline with those sensors to "fake" the ECU into beleiving the speed is 100 after the real speed is above that?

If the speed is determined by the computer by wheel sensors, then one could put some circuits in line that change the output once the 100 mph limit is reached. This would be possible if the speed sensors send a varying voltage signal to the ECU/BCM or whatever to tell the car what speed it is traveling. Once the car reaches 100 mph, the "circuit" could interrupt the signal and continue to send the 100 mph signal while the car continues to go faster based on the input from the pedal sensors. If the accelerator is telling the ECU to push more fuel while the speed sensors are not telling the "governor" to shut down fuel delivery it should be doable.

No. The powertrain knows the speed independent of the wheel speed sensors. The wheel speed sensors don't send a voltage per-se, they send pulses from a hall-effect sensor & a toothed wheel. So many counts per revolution with a time channel = speed.

The system is far more complex than you're making it out to be as far as interrupting one signal and so-forth. As the speed approaches 100 (or 120 in the '05+ Redline) the ECU starts to back off on the throttle in order to limit the speed to 100. Very clever system really. It makes the car feeel as if it's run out of power at that speed instead of using a hard fuel cutoff. But it only cuts back on the throttle so much. Going downhill, it's possible to exceed 100mph, but then at 105 a fuel cutoff comes in.

FGCA_XRL

01-06-2008, 10:59 PM

So then someone explain this limiter bypass method and how that factors in to existance with this cut-off method.

burnout

01-07-2008, 09:13 AM

It's not even worth discussing because it isn't possible. The ECU would just go to limp mode, and ABS would be non-functional.

An ECU tune is the only way to do it.

Oh, crap, nobody can do that. :dazed:

D C

01-07-2008, 10:02 AM

An ECU tune is the only way to do it.

Oh, crap, nobody can do that. :dazed:

except Honda...and I don't see them helping out too much

pdough

01-09-2008, 11:33 AM

No. The powertrain knows the speed independent of the wheel speed sensors. The wheel speed sensors don't send a voltage per-se, they send pulses from a hall-effect sensor & a toothed wheel. So many counts per revolution with a time channel = speed.

The system is far more complex than you're making it out to be as far as interrupting one signal and so-forth. As the speed approaches 100 (or 120 in the '05+ Redline) the ECU starts to back off on the throttle in order to limit the speed to 100. Very clever system really. It makes the car feeel as if it's run out of power at that speed instead of using a hard fuel cutoff. But it only cuts back on the throttle so much. Going downhill, it's possible to exceed 100mph, but then at 105 a fuel cutoff comes in.

Can you tell me what sensors are telling the ECU that the car has reached 100 mph if not the wheel speed sensors alone? I am guessing something in the transmission? Why would it not be possible? Interrupt the signal(s) at the speed or just before that speed and then continue to tell the ECU that speed is not changing after that. ECU will still be receiving increase throttle signal from accelerator and receiving "faked" speed signal.

If you can intercept the signal, change it, then send it on to the ECU as if it were still going 99 mph, then the ECU would not go into limp mode. It would still be receiving a normal signal, just not the correct one as long as all the speed sensors are in agreement.

Your speedometer would read normal mph as long as the car has not reached 99 mph. Once it reaches 99 mph, the car would continue to go faster but the speedo would only read 99. So you might not know exactly how fast you are going, but on a quarter mile track it wold not matter.

killer50

01-10-2008, 02:37 AM

Not to add to the fracas going on, but shortly after I bought my 06 vue, my buddy asked me to come down and watch him race his camaro. Afterwards, just for kicks, we decided to see how fast the little 2.2 5 speed manual would go.

Seemed like forever, but it topped out at 125 - no shut down.

Realize of course, this was a straight level track, no traffic, just a giddyup and go idea.

Yes, it handles like a brick at anything over 70, I rarely go faster than that on the streets - no need. But, it was fun just to try once.

Uzzy

01-10-2008, 07:27 AM

Yes, it handles like a brick at anything over 70My mom's 2.2L auto did 85mph, no problem the other day. Took a little while to get there, and not the most solid car I've driven at that speed, but it did it ok. I wouldn't want to go much faster in it though. :no:

twosaturns

01-11-2008, 08:41 AM

My mom's 2.2L auto did 85mph, no problem the other day. Took a little while to get there, and not the most solid car I've driven at that speed, but it did it ok. I wouldn't want to go much faster in it though. :no:

I'm regulary at 70-75mph in my 5 speed VUE, occasionally 80-85. I think it handles ok, stable, no feelings of 'lifting' or float. mpgs is only about 25.5 on my rapid commute, however:tear:

I've found that 3rd gear accelration in the VUE is the best. the gap between 1-2 is a little wide, but 3rd is nice. 4th is so quiet I forget to go to 5th sometimes. you honda powered guys are missing all the fun!;):):yes: