VUE Engine Squeal

[solofast]

I have a 2002 Vue with 90k miles on it.

We took it in for an oil change yesterday and drove it home, then downtown, maybe a total of 40 miles....

On her way home my wife noticed it was "sluggish" and then the squealing started. It is a high pitched squeal that one would think would be a belt, and that is what I thought at first it was. The squealing is somewhat speed related, but not entirely. It squeals above 2,000 rpm and much less at lower speeds. I shut off the A/C and the fans to unload the belt/alternator and it made no difference.

What is most disconcerting is that the squeal is primarily throttle position related. That is, more throttle, more squeal, even at a pretty steady speed, more throttle, more squeal, lift off the throttle no (or much less) squeal. I can get it to squeal by "brake torqueing" the engine, that is if I hold the brakes and give is some throttle, it will squeal like crazy, but if you rev it in netural it is almost quiet, but I can get a hint of a squeal if it revs quickly, again, more load related than anything else.

No knocking or tappet noises that one would think would come from low oil pressure. It starts smoothly and quickly.

It gets worse as the engine warms up, it is almost non-existent at first, but then gets worse as it gets hotter.

Any ideas? :dizzy:

[1saxman]

Check the connections on the cold air ass'y. to the throttle body and air filter housing. I suspect a 'whistle' from a leak in the air intake that they probably left loose after checking/screwing around-with the air filter. This would also throw off the engine calibration, and I'm surprised it hasn't thrown a code. Did you check your oil after the gorillas got through mangling your car?

[solofast]

Yes, I checked the oil, that was my first thought...

I also looked at the air filter and yingyangd on the intake, thinking, same as you that it may have been intake related since it was throttle position sensitive. Nothing obvious was loose but I didn't try to tighten the throttle body clamps, maybe that is worth a try...

I was also thinking that perhaps they didn't put the oil filter element in correctly or mucked up and got something into the lube system.. I never really liked the separate filter element apprach, a spin on filter always seemed like a better idea to me.....

Sounds more "mechanical" like a belt squeal or an alternator rub than an intake thing... But the nature of it, the fact that it is more load related is what bafflles me. It does increase in frequency with increasing rpm's but the volume is load realted...

[fdryer]

If you search the threads you'll read of possible belt tensioners wearing and/or bearings seizing anywhere that spins including the idler pulleys and alternator. Most likely its one of the bearings that are on the tensioner or idler. Pulling off the serpentine belt and turning everything that the belt spins on will usually uncover the worn bearing. Even depressing the belt between pulleys shouldn't deflect at all and if the belt gives its an indication of a worn tensioner that's allowing the belt to slip and the subsequent squealing. The belt must be taut at all times as there's the alternator, power steering pump, water pump, and a/c compressor that's driven off that one serpentine belt. At 90k miles somethings going to give up the ghost and the squealing is the sound of old tired parts needing replacement.

[IMkenNY]

There are also belt tensioner pulleys for the timing belt.

Your close to the magic 100,000 mile timing belt life.

The 3.0 is an interference engine and the pistons will hit the valves if the timing belt or a timing belt idler pulley fails

[solofast]

Question??

Is the 100k miles on a timing belt a "must do" on these cars or is it a "should oughta do"... Many many cars will go 150k miles on a timing belt...

The last car I just go rid of had 156k on it and never had the belt replaced...

Also it is an age thing too. A 10 year old car with 100k would be looking at a belt job for sure, but what about a 5 year old?

Any history or experience with this would be appreciated...

[fdryer]

You would be gambling on replacing the timing belt later and there are threads covering this in the L-series if you take the time to read them. It will be a costly mistake to overlook it and while replacing it the water pump is recommended at the same to be replaced. Search the threads. Even if you have these two replaced and find the originals in perfect condition its still wiser to replace them as it would be the only time to actually see inside the cam covers. Its your choice of course. Have you isolated the noisy squealing yet?

[M7Mayberry]

As a new Saturn owner, I find reading about these maintenance issues interesting. My 1990 C2500 pickup went 225,000 in 16 years and I never had one thing done to the engine. It was still running when I donated it to charity. I guess those "ancient" pushrod engines, and THREE-speed automatics were good for something.

[solofast]

Turns out it was the catalytic converter in its' death throws.......:cry:

Which makes some sense since it was obviously airflow related...

Emissions systems are warrantied for 80k miles... This car has 87,000 on it..... No offer by the dealer to even try to warranty it....

The STEALERSHIP ( :arr: )wants $1,400 for parts and $200 for installation (like did I really think it would take three hours to do that ? :eek: ) for a grand total of $1,600.... I didn't notice if the service writer wore a mask and a gun, but I guess I just didn't look hard enough....(I think that he should have offered to kiss me too... I'm used to getting kissed just before I get...... well you get the idea)....

The service guy really apoligized for the high parts cost, but he said that Saturn parts really last a long time (like this one did ???? NOT). At a factor of 4 (replacement cat, and Y pipes for $339 on Ebay and buy it now) times what I can buy a converter for on line, that is absolutely absurd....

Sad that we enjoy our cars and then something like this happens that makes you realize that Saturn isn't any different than any other car company no matter what their slogan says....

[IMkenNY]

One of my 3.0 Vues has been running with the two pre converters intact but without the main converter. I accidently holllowed it out with a pressure washer trying to unclog the remants of a busted up pre converter. I had a spare preconverter to replace the busted up one. As the Meatloaf song says "two out of three aint bad"


It doesnt throw any codes and it has passed our NYS OBDII emission inspection for the last 45,000 miles and three years.

[solofast]

Been traveling so I wasn't able to post this, but did the install on the new converter and pipe assembly....

The one I bought was a total assembly, which included the pre-cat and the main converter. It also included new flex pipes and looked to be pretty well made. I got it off of ebay for $329 +shipping... The only difference is that the pre-cat and the converter looked to be a bit smaller than the OE parts. Ordered it on the 2nd of July and it arrived on the 5th. Not bad considering the holiday.

The OE part is pretty complicated, with a built in Y pipe, and the pre-cat and main cat, all connected by flex pipes.. Lots of single converters on the web, but you would have to cut the assembly and weld them in. Not that I couldn't do it, but that was simply too much pain.

The parts fit "pretty well", but this was not the total "bolt in" job that they advertised. The gasket for the exhaust manifold up on the engine had the wrong hole pattern, just a bit off, but it was likely an english hole pattern on a metric flange... Had to buzz out the bolt holes with a die grinder to get the gasket on the studs. The rear flange also had a problem in that the part flange was placed on the pipe in the right spot, but the pipe stuck out too far past the flange and I had to die grind off the end of the pipe that stuck out so that it would let the gasket compress... There is a small groove in the tailpipe flange, but the pipe sticking out from the end of the converter flange was way too long... The tailpipe flange also required bolts (the stock one has studs on it) that weren't supplied, and the ones I had were metric so I needed to hog out the holes a bit (more die grinding) to get mine to fit. All not horrible, but still not a "bolt in" job, unless you consider 15 minutes with die grinder as bolting things in. If you didn't have a die grinder and were doing this with a hack saw and a file, figure an hour or more to get it to fit.

As a result of these fixes it took a bit longer than I had anticipated to do this in my garage. More like two hours under the car. Install completed, no leaks, and only the normal amount of yelling and swearing at things that wouldn't come loose, or lost nuts and bolts under the car.

When all done it worked fine, no codes, BUT... The exhaust noise is a bit louder, likely as a result of the smaller converters.

Wouldn't in a million years spend the $1600 that the dealer wanted to do this when I could do it myself for less than $400, but was a bit disappointed that the net result was a bit louder than the OE parts, but hey, $1200 is $1200...

[1saxman]

I imagine it was a little 'zippier' with the exhaust freed up.

[solofast]

Yea, It was "peppier"....

I noticed it right away and my wife noticed it too...