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Maritime Storm
06-04-2007, 09:35 AM
The 1.8L, does anyone yet know if it will be belt or chain driven?

saturncanuck
06-04-2007, 10:37 AM
The 1.8L, does anyone yet know if it will be belt or chain driven?

The engine is the 1.8L version of the EcoTech.

Deffinatley chain.

:sneeze:

saturn_69
06-04-2007, 02:13 PM
The engine is the 1.8L version of the EcoTech.

Definitely chain.

:sneeze:
Nope, it's a different Ecotec and it's belt driven. The Euro Ecotec (1.6-2.0) is not the same engine as the American Ecotec (2.0 Supercharged - 2.4).

saturncanuck
06-04-2007, 03:53 PM
Nope, it's a different Ecotec and it's belt driven. The Euro Ecotec (1.6-2.0) is not the same engine as the American Ecotec (2.0 Supercharged - 2.4).

You realize that makes no sense. The EcoTech was devopled as a "Global" engine, so there are no "American" or "European" engines. The 2.0L that is used in the Saab 9-3 is an EcoTech, and that's chain drive and it's "European".

I doubt GM would spend the money to develop a family of engines so that can be the same, and then make them different.

Unless I see positive proof, I stand by my previous statement.

:sneeze:

saturn_69
06-04-2007, 04:19 PM
You realize that makes no sense. The EcoTech was devopled as a "Global" engine, so there are no "American" or "European" engines. The 2.0L that is used in the Saab 9-3 is an EcoTech, and that's chain drive and it's "European".

I doubt GM would spend the money to develop a family of engines so that can be the same, and then make them different.

Unless I see positive proof, I stand by my previous statement.

:sneeze:

Okay, let me rephrase that then. The 1.8 Ecotec in the Saturn Astra is consider a Family I engine, the Ecotec in Saab/Ion/Cobalt/etc. is a Family II engine. You want positive proof?

From the Holden Astra website - with picture of engine. (http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modelfeatures?aid=6714&&modelid=26004&bitmask=1)

And, on this PDF taken from that site, go to page 15 and read the specs on the 1.8L compared to the 2.2L. The 2.2 states 'chain driven overhead cams', the 1.8 does not. Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Family_1_engine) is a link with the Family I information:

"DCVCP

A new variant of 1.8L Family 1 engine, featuring Euro IV compliancy, DCVCP (Double Continuous Variable Cam Phasing technology, a variant of VVT) and ingegrated catalytic converter, will enter production Spring 2005. It is based on the lighter cast-iron block, although there's no TwinPort in this version.

* 1.8 L (1796 cc): DCVCP, 80.5 mm (3.17 in) bore, 88.2 mm (3.47 in) stroke, 10.5:1 compression, 140 hp (103 kW) and 129 ft.lbf (175 Nm) of torque.

Ecotec DCVCP engines are used in:

* 2005 Opel Zafira
* Opel Astra"


Why would I make it up? It isn't the same engine as 'our' Ecotec.

Maritime Storm
06-05-2007, 04:46 AM
This true and I realized this already, my question is which are we getting the euro version(belt drive) or a smaller version of the NA engine?
PS; the chain driven model was used in the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra for a while as well.

saturn_69
06-05-2007, 08:29 AM
This true and I realized this already, my question is which are we getting the euro version(belt drive) or a smaller version of the NA engine?
PS; the chain driven model was used in the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra for a while as well.
We're getting the Euro version. Holden gets a Direct Injection version of 'our' 2.2L that puts out 170hp.

beanheadz
06-05-2007, 12:55 PM
So....what exactly is so bad about timing Belts? I know the S had chains, but belts are quieter and last a good long time; longer than most people keep their cars these days. When i was selling Saturns, my repeat customers came in after their cars were just a few years old and got new ones.
Timing belts used to have to be changed every 70,000 miles or so, which is relatively quick. Nowadays the replacement interval is at least 100,000.

Replaced my belt in my Ford (30,000 miles overdue!), and chunks were missing out of it, but it still held together.

People should be more concerned if theirs is an interference engine. If whatever you have (belt or chain), breaks, say goodbye to your valves, and expect a big, tasty Repair Bill $$$

Tethys
06-05-2007, 09:28 PM
The major asset to owning an engine with a timing chain is that the chain should give you some aural warning before it slacks and leaves you with that hefty repair bill. Not everyone leases their vehicle or returns to the dealer every 24 or 36 months for a new one. My first car, a Nova-clone Buick Skylark from the late 70s, threw its timing chain while I owned it and I clearly remember the shade-tree mechanic I used pointing out the sound of the chain slacking against the cover as the engine spun.

I intend to keep my Ion well past its last payment coupon and I like the security of knowing I have a timing chain that should last 100,000 miles or more instead of a timing belt that has to be replaced at 60 or 70K along with a moderately substantial bill to change said belt (labor, removing front wheel, inner fender liner, accessory drive, water pump, belt housing and whatever else is between the belt and the mechanic).

My .02.

davidsky
06-07-2007, 09:15 PM
The smoothness of a belt is really key. There's reasons why everyone loves Honda 4 cylinders. Timing belts are one of them. Belts also don't require an oil bath so the front of the engine can be much lighter.

BobbyP
06-09-2007, 05:21 PM
The smoothness of a belt is really key. There's reasons why everyone loves Honda 4 cylinders. Timing belts are one of them. Belts also don't require an oil bath so the front of the engine can be much lighter.

IMO everything in the Honda engine is more precise than a similar domestic engine. None of my GM 4-cyl engines were never in the same league in smoothness. They all were reliable, powerful, gave good mileage, but were crude in comparrison.

I was hoping they would use the US versions of the ECOTEC since they were already met federal certifications, and it would have gave the Astra an advantage over the Civic.

myoung
06-10-2007, 08:59 AM
IMO everything in the Honda engine is more precise than a similar domestic engine. None of my GM 4-cyl engines were never in the same league in smoothness. They all were reliable, powerful, gave good mileage, but were crude in comparrison.

I was hoping they would use the US versions of the ECOTEC since they were already met federal certifications, and it would have gave the Astra an advantage over the Civic.

Huh? The Honda is better in your opinion, but the chain drive Ecotec gives an advantage?

As for me, I'm a chain guy. If you take care of it, it's a lifetime part. There's not an ominous $1000+ service waiting for you every 100k miles, like with the 3.0 in the Vue and L.

Dunno what the 100k service will cost for the 04-07 3.5 Vue, but rest assured it'll be more than the same service for the 08 3.6.

saturncanuck
06-11-2007, 10:55 AM
It seems I was wrong, an I have official information that it IS a belt.

Who'd a thunk it.

:sneeze:

Pete93SL1M
06-21-2007, 01:55 PM
It seems I was wrong, an I have official information that it IS a belt.

Who'd a thunk it.

:sneeze:

Weird, huh? And the new Hondas have chains.

JADEDSL2
06-23-2007, 09:41 AM
Weird, huh? And the new Hondas have chains.

I think the engineers today are mostly on crack when designing today's engines. Some days they do well, then the next week they go and revert to outdated, inferior technology. Yeah, belts are "smoother" (who gives a *&%$?), but chains have always been, and will always be, stronger, and longer lasting. I don't trust a piece of rubber to keep my interference motor from tapping valves on the piston heads and frying my engine. I do trust a STEEL chain to do that though. Steel > rubber.

Maritime Storm
10-17-2007, 03:12 AM
Went to the source for my answer.


Hi Trevor,


Our engineers tell me we get the same belt driven motor that Europe has.

Cheers,

Tony


_____________________________
Tony LaRocca
Product Communications
General Motors of Canada Limited



"Trevor GRACIE" <tgracie@nb.sympatico.ca>
10/15/2007 06:07 AM
To <tony.larocca@gm.com>
cc
Subject Valve Train Drive.2008 Saturn Astra







Quick question, after reading the specs posted for the new Astra on GM's website and Opel Website, I'm curious will the 1.8L have the belt driven version from Europe or chain version of ECOTEC we are currently using here in NA?


Trevor Gracie
Canadian Tire, Store#63 Dieppe, NB Canada